Timing Belt Replacement- Belt Pulley and Tensioner replacement not a Must?

Hi All,

A mechanic I consulted with suggested to replace my timing belt and water pump @128KM and said I do not have to replace the tensioner and belt pulley(!) I have a 2002 Golf TDI. He suggested that in order to save me money and offered to do it for $550(!).

I wanted to ask the experts here is it true that I can probably replace the above not including the tensioner and belt pulley as he mentioned, without taking any major risk?

Please do not tell me he is a bad mechanic because I know for fact he is a good and expreienced mechanic! He suggested that to save me money - I told him my situation. I understand to be on the safe it is always good to replace everything (the entire car) but this is not my question. My question is: is it really not a significant risk to leave the tensioner and belt pulley and just replace the timing belt and water pump?

Thoughts?

THANKS!
Neil

Hello, I am a tech at a high volume dealer -for 28 years--VW says to replace tensioner--the weaker link --however the other rollers also spin on a bearing also--we replace the rollers every other t-belt service with a tensioner every time--also I have seen many engine failures due to broken lifter buckets--the top breaking off-and holding the valves open--smash!!
i can tell you that this has happened on cars with 150,000-200,0000 miles on them..if fact a customer pick up a new tdi in 2002 a golf and over the weekend a few years ago had it towed in with a little 500 miles on --I have a 1996 Passat with 470,000 mile on it and never been apart other then regular maint.. I replace the lifters every 140,000 miles

Investmart, please don't let your username become an oxymoron.

Replece EVERYTHING the TB touches other than the sprockets. Not sure about Canada, but here we can buy a deluxe TB kit with everything needed for $305. Add in the labor, and it's not much more than the price quoted by your mechanic. For example, I change $300 to do a TB and all components.

Yes.....

investmart said:

A mechanic I consulted with suggested to replace my timing belt and water pump @128KM and said I do not have to replace the tensioner and belt pulley(!) I have a 2002 Golf TDI. He suggested that in order to save me money and offered to do it for $550(!).
(snip)
Please do not tell me he is a bad mechanic because I know for fact he is a good and expreienced mechanic! He suggested that to save me money - I told him my situation. I understand to be on the safe it is always good to replace everything (the entire car) but this is not my question. My question is: is it really not a significant risk to leave the tensioner and belt pulley and just replace the timing belt and water pump?

Click to expand...

Go here http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/roseland/VWPartsA4.htm and scroll halfway down to the Deluxe A4 TDI Timing Belt Kit

These are the parts included, and nearly all except a couple bolts or washers need to be replaced at every TB change.

Includes:
038 121 011 A, Water Pump, with metal impeller [Ask about brand, the Laso pump with brass impeller is reportedly the best.]
VWN 905 969 02, Bolt, M10 x 55 mm Grade 8.8, for Large Idler pulley near Water Pump
038 109 244 M, Idler Pulley, Large, INA [INA is the OE manufacturer.]
038 109 244 E, Idler Pulley, Lower Small, INA
058 109 244, Idler Pulley, Upper Small, INA
VWN 011 558 11 Washer, M8, includes 6
VWN 900 744 01, Lock Nut, M8, includes 2
VWN 019 531 3, Bolt, M8 x 40 mm Grade 8.8
MNM8SHORT, A4 Harmonic Balancer Bolts M8 x 35 mm Grade 12.9, set of four bolts
038 109 119M, Timing Belt, Gates or Continental, longer life version
038 109 243N, Tensioner, Litens 979592 [Litens is the OE manufacturer.]
038 145 345, Vacuum Pump Seal, RTS, oem
038 103 085C, Camshaft Seal, directional, PTFE ( Teflon® ), 47 x 32 x 10 used on later ALH engines or
068 103 085E, Camshaft Seal, bi-directional, DPH brand, 47 x 32 x 10 for early ALH engines
VWN 903 285 04, Injector Pump Bolt, M8 x 16 mm Grade 8.8, includes 3
VWN 102 096 03, Engine Mount Bolt, M12-1.5 x 65 mm Grade 10.9, includes 2
VWN 105 167 01, Engine Mount Bolt, M10 x 55 mm Grade 10.9, includes 2
[Engine mount bolts should never be reused.]

tb

Either do the job right the first time or you are going to be paying a LOT more to fix it!

__. Ditto the others Neil. Also, did this "good and experienced" mechanic offer to install the "100K mile" kit so that you can go 160km before you need to change the belt again?

__. Sounds like this mechanic needs to go back to "good and experienced" mechanics' school for a refresher course!

Arrgg...

This is one job you don't want to half a**. As I say, whats more expensive, doing a proper timing belt job, or doing a cylinder head down the road.

Have y'all ever noticed that this poster never replies to threads he starts?

Methinks that legs are being pulled by this newbie.......

Thank you all for the GREAT input!

Paramedick, I'm actually viewing new responses everyday. I think it's a more difficult question than it initially seems as I was not asking about what's "recommended" or what is in VW's manual (that's easy), but rather was looking for someone like JoeTDI above to let us know FROM EXPERIENCE, what the implications are in most cases, if any, of not replacing the belt pulley EXACTLY "on time", for example. As you can see even JoeTDI mentioned he saw a car with issues after only 500 miles.

MrG's tip on "100K mile" kit is also highly appreciated.

Regards,
Neil

investmart said:

[snip]
to let us know FROM EXPERIENCE, what the implications are in most cases
[snip]

Click to expand...

Among the gurus on the forum, I believe Paramedick ranks among those that know first hand what the implications are - when the man speaks please listen.

Neil, my apologies. Glad to know you are following your threads.

For example. Yesterday, I did an 03 Jetta TB and intake. 127K miles, or 27K over recommended interval. Water pump leaking. Several very loose rollers. Significant stretch to the old belt. Essentially, a disaster waiting to happen. When? Tomorrow, next week, next month, who knows. All I know is it WILL happen.

investmart said:

Please do not tell me he is a bad mechanic because I know for fact he is a good and expreienced mechanic!

Click to expand...

I won't tell you he's a bad mechanic, but as far as TDI's (and more specifically, ALH motors) goes, he's a TERRIBLE mechanic...

I had a very "good and experienced" mechanic who took care of my previous VW diesels and kept them running well past 700,000 km each...

I had him work on my TDI just once... I saw enough that I started doing most of the maintenance myself or getting some of the TDI-Club Gurus to do the work...

Just about every ALH motor's (old) idler bearings that I've seen have had too much play in them, and I would seriously doubt that they could go another 150-160,000 km without a major breakdown...

This is no place for a half-fast job... do it yourself if need be, but make sure it's done right - with no shortcuts or with less than a complete renewal of the TB system components...

Yuri.

I cannot believe not replacing everything in the TB path. I recently posted my NB nearly met its maker due to a previous TB job only replacing the belt and tensioner. The cost for the other idlers/tensioner is minimal compared to engine failure. I cannot stand half-done jobs. Your mechanic may be trying to save you money but he isn't unless you plan on selling the car soon.

The rollers and WP felt like new on our Golf when I did the TB, but I changed them anyway. There´s no way of telling if the rollers or WP will last another 60 or 100k, NO WAY..
Is it worth saving a few $ on the rollers just to notice that they start to make all kinds of noices in 10K or 30K?
Not to mention the risk of engine failure if the large roller explodes or WP seizes....

The parts are not expensive, it's the labor that will kill you. The book rate is at least 5.0 hours. If you do not replace the waterpump, or if you do not replace the rollers, going back and doing it later means: moving the coolant and washer fluid reservoirs, lifting the engine, removing the motor mount, releasing the tension and loosening the TB, then continuing to remove parts til you access the rollers and/or water pump, etc. etc. Then putting it all back together and getting the timing right.

Everything done the first time has to be repeated. The labor charges to do it over are the same as the first time.

Parts are cheap, labor is expensive. Do it right, do all of it the first time.

Please, give your car to someone else and get a honda or a toyota. You start threads like this then disappear and resurface with a new one.

This is the same guy that started the classic "What are thre absolute minimum maintenance requirments?" thread. And the Nth "Nitrogen in tires and optimum tire pressure for best fuel consumption?" thread

Perhaps we should introduce Neil to the original poster on this thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=207701

Possibly they could get a package deal from the same mechanic and save even more money...

(Then again, we've all heard about some mythical car owner who never spent a cent on maintenance and ran the car for many years... it's conceivable that the car will die of some other cause before the engine implodes...)

Yuri.



(Who is it around here whose tag line is: "Don't feed the trolls" ????)