Study Shows Diesel Engines Recuperate Extra Cost Quickly

woofie2

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Feb 11, 2004
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Former TDI owner
I stumbled onto this article-
http://www.torquenews.com/108/study-shows-diesel-engines-recuperate-extra-cost-quickly


In a study released at the Washington Auto Show, the Carnegie Mellon Tepper School of Business showed that purchasers of diesel engines could recuperate the extra cost of their purchase within 18 months because of greater fuel efficiency and end up with vehicles worth up to 30 percent more than their gas-engine equivalents.

The study was funded by Bosch, which manufacturers clean diesel fuel injection systems for passenger cars, light-duty trucks and commercial vehicles. Carnegie Mellon said at a press conference that Bosch funded the study to get real-world data to validate the fiscal advantages of diesel engines.

"It's been generally known that diesel vehicles typically post lower operating costs because of their increased fuel economy. But that's only one element of the equation. Our study considered a vehicle's initial price and resale value along with other operating and maintenance costs."

The study made additional findings (not all related to diesel engines):

* For passenger cars, the Volkswagen clean diesel technology and the Toyota Prius retain a greater percentage of initial purchase price than conventional gas vehicles
* For trucks, the diesel engines retain a higher percentage of their initial price than the gas options with the exception of the Ford F250
* As cabin size increases, more trucks are installed with diesel engines, which, not surprisingly, retain a greater portion of their total price.

Even though the study was funded by a company that makes clean diesel fuel injection systems, it's still fairly accurate in showing a diesel vehicle will recuperate its extra cost quickly and start saving an owner money.

Leading to this article-
http://tepper.cmu.edu/news-multimedia/news/news-detail/index.aspx?nid=461

and linking to the study-
http://tepper.cmu.edu/news-multimedia/news/news-detail/download.aspx?id=8865
 

kjclow

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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
speaking from my own expreience, the resale/trade-in value of the tdi versus a gas model all depends on what you are buying and when. I got about $1000 more out of my deal trading my 2000 beetle for a 2010 JSW because the dealer had someone who would take any tdi they came across. According to kbb, the trade-in value for the tdi was about $200 more than the gas model.
 

Dooglas

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Jun 24, 2007
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Portland, OR
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'06 Jetta
The Kelley Bluebook lists the average trade-in value of my '06 TDI Jetta as $12,000. It lists the average trade-in of the comparable 2.5 liter Jetta gasser as $8,000. Seems to bear out the point being made above without mentioning that I am consistently getting 30-40% better fuel economy.
 

Dooglas

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'06 Jetta
According to kbb, the trade-in value for the tdi was about $200 more than the gas model.
When I look up KBB average trade-in value of TDI and comparable gasser year 2000 New Beetles in good condition, I get a result of about $4000 for the TDI and $2500 for the gasser. Resale values are higher of course.
 

Second Turbo

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Kansas, USA
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2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
The end of the bathtub curve

> ... purchasers of diesel engines could recuperate the
> extra cost of their purchase within 18 months because
> of greater fuel efficiency and end up with vehicles worth
> up to 30 percent more than their gas-engine equivalents.


Or they can run them longer than gassers, with lower
on-going maintenance expenses. Our 2003 TDI, at 228K,
is still on the original driveline parts (other than timing belt).

The 1989 Chrysler turbo mini-van it replaced ran 248K miles,
but that included several clutches and a whole new engine
at 180K. Ironically, we even had to replace the gas tank, as
the gas had attacked mounting components.
_______
And if you drive a lot, as I do, the payoff could be one year
or less. But alas, this requires buyers who think, which does
not describe the U.S. auto market.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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Cambridge, MA
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5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
I think the value of a diesel vs. a gasser is well documented. I always remind people that you typically get your money back when purchasing a diesel, so the up front cost is basically nothing. You get the ongoing savings because of the fuel economy. :D The added oomph of the diesel is an added bonus that the gasser won't give you except by adding silly horse power...!
 
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dieselyeti

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Fairfield CT
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2012 Passat TDI SE (DSG)
But the fuel costs so much more than gas... :rolleyes:

I tell people who ask that I have no problem paying 10% more for diesel fuel when I go 30-40% further per gallon than a comparable gasser. And then there's the power advantage. When you put it in those terms, you can see the light bulbs light right up.
 

wfg97079

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Dec 11, 2000
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NH
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for the first time in 17 years, none
cost/mile

I usually do a quick cost/mile calculation to show folks that paying more for a fuel that gets you further per dollar make sense

But the fuel costs so much more than gas... :rolleyes:

I tell people who ask that I have no problem paying 10% more for diesel fuel when I go 30-40% further per gallon than a comparable gasser. And then there's the power advantage. When you put it in those terms, you can see the light bulbs light right up.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
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Apr 26, 2003
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Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I filled my wife's CR-V yesterday. She only got around 23 mpg on that tank. (I know one tank is not significant). I am currently averaging around 38 mpg on the JSW with about 80% city driving. Doesn't take too much mind power to see which car is the best driving value.
 

cptmox

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Feb 15, 2001
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Villa Park, IL.
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01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
Way back in 2001, when I bought my Jetta, the price of diesel (and PUG) was roughly $1.60. Who knew that within 10 years that price would more than double? Kinda made me look like pretty smart, and accelerated the rate my car paid me back for the diesel premium. The diesel premium was paid off before the loan on the car was paid off.
 

woofie2

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Former TDI owner
Way back in 2001, when I bought my Jetta, the price of diesel (and PUG) was roughly $1.60. Who knew that within 10 years that price would more than double? Kinda made me look like pretty smart, and accelerated the rate my car paid me back for the diesel premium. The diesel premium was paid off before the loan on the car was paid off.
I thought the same thing when I bought my 2003, Diesel was about $1.60 per gallon, RUG was around $1.55 a gallon.
the pay off for a diesel car premium price was about 5 years,
Then the resale price of my car went up in 2004 when VW slowed and stopped the 1.9L TDI motor.
The payoff of the "premium" for the Diesel car was holding steady at less than $1000/year in resale price loss, my father's 2005 Cadillac was loosing about $2500/year (when prices were checked in 2008.
we were at a friends business talking cars, and my 2003 Jetta TDI was still worth over 17k, according to the NADA Blue book.
 

abctdi

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ABQ, NM, USA
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2005 Passat GLS
* For trucks, the diesel engines retain a higher percentage of their initial price than the gas options with the exception of the Ford F250
I call BS on this one for the F250/350, unless they are refering specifically to the 6.oh oh, which has a bad rep.
 

smitty711

Active member
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Feb 2, 2011
Location
West Sacramento Ca
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2004 jetta TDI Automatic 154,000
I know my 2004 tdi with 114,000 i can get about $8,000 in Sacramento,Ca
My 2008 dodge ram 2500 quad cab Diesel trade in is about $29,000 retail is $34,000 and I paid $32,000 OTD when they economy first began its slide..So yes, diesels have hel their value better than any gas car i had or own
 

dieselyeti

Veteran Member
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Location
Fairfield CT
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2012 Passat TDI SE (DSG)
Way back in 2001, when I bought my Jetta, the price of diesel (and PUG) was roughly $1.60. Who knew that within 10 years that price would more than double? Kinda made me look like pretty smart, and accelerated the rate my car paid me back for the diesel premium.
Careful there, you're approaching Prius levels of smugness :D

The TDI madness started in 1998 for me, when D2 was $1.10 (same or less than RUG). Now it's more than tripled (forget the market stupidity of 2008 for a moment) and the '09 TDI has turned out to be another good purchase.

Edit - what's with the thumbs down icon at the top?
 

Dimitri16V

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DE
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01 Golf, 04 Golf
BS

the more complex the TDIs are , the higher the repair cost will be.
the emmisions system alone will cost an arm and a leg to repair after warranty. they all loose their turbo at some point.
if speaking of older TDIs, only the mechanically inclined owners that fix them themselves can claim fuel savings
 

frugality

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Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
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none, 2016 GTI
BS

the more complex the TDIs are , the higher the repair cost will be.
the emmisions system alone will cost an arm and a leg to repair after warranty. they all loose their turbo at some point.
if speaking of older TDIs, only the mechanically inclined owners that fix them themselves can claim fuel savings
I call BS on your BS. :)

My old 2000 Golf with 300+k miles on it is one of many high-mile TDI's that is still running on its original turbo.

The maintenance costs of a TDI aren't that significant to override the fuel savings. Not by a long shot.
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
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none, 2016 GTI
I recently ran the numbers of a TDI vs. a 2.5L gasser. At 28k miles/year, I'm still saving $1000/year, even though diesel was $0.30/gal. more at the time I ran the calcs.

I had my previous Golf TDI for 10 years. According to Dimitri, that would mean that I would have $10,000 in extra maintenance costs over 10 years. That'll easily pay for a DPF and a turbo....even at dealership prices.
 

Dimitri16V

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DE
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01 Golf, 04 Golf
diesel fuel is more than 40 cents , not 30 higher than gas.

don't compare the TDI with the 2.5 gasser , compare it with a Corolla.

You may brag about still having the original turbo but how many members here are in their 3rd turbo ? or second camshaft ?

All I am saying , the todays diesels are more complex than the 80s models. they are forced to meet incredible pollution levels , deliver good power an economy. all that require more complexity and that costs money.

we will debate this again once your CRD is out of warranty :)
 

kjclow

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Location
Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
My wife has used that same arguement about buying another VW diesel, but I did it anyway. The standard maintanace costs for our 2000 beetle seemed fairly high compared to the Fords and Chevys we owned at the time. As the toyotas and honda we own get more miles, I am seeing that these cars cost about the same to keep them on the road. Biggest difference is that the honda uses a timing chain versus a timing belt. Toyota dealer quoted me $550 to replace the timing belt on my daughter's 97 corolla this weekend.
 

RomanL

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Location
Denver, CO
TDI
'10 GOLF TDI
I recently ran the numbers of a TDI vs. a 2.5L gasser. At 28k miles/year, I'm still saving $1000/year, even though diesel was $0.30/gal. more at the time I ran the calcs.

I had my previous Golf TDI for 10 years. According to Dimitri, that would mean that I would have $10,000 in extra maintenance costs over 10 years. That'll easily pay for a DPF and a turbo....even at dealership prices.
:D im right there with you. look at my signature.
i have '10 GOLF TDI 6Mt
my g/f '07 Rabbit 2.5 5MT
live together so fill up in similar areas. drive similar traffic, etc.
im averaging 15 mpg better. 40 vs 25
cost per mile $0.08/mile vs $0.12/mile thats a big difference. :D
as far as cost to fix: thats hard to guess, i believe as long as car is maintained properly then mechanical breakdown should be minimal, and if it does cost me more to fix, then be it. i didnt buy VW TDI to save money, if $$ was my main concern i'd be driving Toyota Yaris 2dr *($10K out the door brand new i believe, and cheapest to operate/insure i think).
i bought VW TDI because i like how it drives, feels, handles, 550+ mile tanks average, blah blah, :D
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
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Location
DE
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01 Golf, 04 Golf
I thought the same thing when I bought my 2003, Diesel was about $1.60 per gallon, RUG was around $1.55 a gallon.
the pay off for a diesel car premium price was about 5 years,
Then the resale price of my car went up in 2004 when VW slowed and stopped the 1.9L TDI motor.
The payoff of the "premium" for the Diesel car was holding steady at less than $1000/year in resale price loss, my father's 2005 Cadillac was loosing about $2500/year (when prices were checked in 2008.
we were at a friends business talking cars, and my 2003 Jetta TDI was still worth over 17k, according to the NADA Blue book.

what ??? what have you been smoking ? and my Scirocco is worthy 30K
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Prices of older model TDIs will go up once the CRD models start breaking down.

Diesel or crude prices are not gonna decrease significantly,
the $ 4.50 shock worked perfectly , everybody is conditioned for $3-4 range now.
 

tdi90hp

Veteran Member
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Feb 5, 2002
Location
Canuckland
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2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
precisely why as fuel skyrockets again tdis will be in the catbird seat !
7 yrs with my 03 jetta and nearly 300,000kms..no turbos, no major issues, less oil changes, better torque, way better mileage, 1 timing belt, no plugs(lol), no injectors, no rear brake pads, no clutch replacements, no oil consumption, original power windows, alternator,battery,a/c compressor, original electronics (all), 5 air filters, 5-6 fuel filters, usually averaged 20km/liter (close to 50mpg), original starter, michelins lasted nearly 120,000kms and when some prick stole it from me one night the insurance paid me nearly 8000 dollars!!!
Yep Dimitri16V...these cars suck.
lovin my new CR...you know what bud ...they are even BETTER....
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
diesel fuel is more than 40 cents , not 30 higher than gas.
$0.25 difference today. It hasn't been more than $0.50 difference lately, and that was for only a couple days.


You may brag about still having the original turbo but how many members here are in their 3rd turbo ? or second camshaft ?
Lots of folks on their original turbos and cams.

Heck, most turbo replacements aren't because of bad turbos anyway, they're because of issues like actuators or N75's that were mis-diagnosed.
 

Dooglas

Veteran Member
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Jun 24, 2007
Location
Portland, OR
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'06 Jetta
the more complex the TDIs are , the higher the repair cost will be. the emmisions system alone will cost an arm and a leg to repair after warranty. they all loose their turbo at some point.
Gassers also have complex emission systems and performance gassers typically have turbochargers. Sounds like you are arguing against vehicles made after 1970 - electronic ignition, fuel injection, power assists, disc brakes, ESP, ABS, satellite radio, GPS, bluetooth, etc, etc, etc
 

GTIDan

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So. California
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2010 Candy White Jetta, DSG
BS

.
if speaking of older TD Is, only the mechanically inclined owners that fix them themselves can claim fuel savings
the more complex the TD Is are , the higher the repair cost will be. the emissions system alone will cost an arm and a leg to repair after warranty.they all loose their turbo at some point

Say what? Do you know anything about diesel technology? Diesels are about as simple as they get. No spark plugs, no variable cams, etc.
I've driven cars with nearly 200,000 miles and the turbo still works fine.

Turbo technology has changed a lot over the past few years and the addition of water and oil cooling has made turbos about as reliable as alternators.

As for emission repairs the only real addition on the diesel is the DPF which as far as I know has no moving part/s. It only requires inspection at 120 thousand miles. Who knows how long it will actually last.

So what are you talking about????? :confused:

Just asking here; do you own a Prius?
 

timwagon

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Location
Hauppauge, NY
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2010 Jetta Sportwagen Stick
I don't think a generalization can be made about the relative price of diesel / regular gas. Here on Long Island the spread can be very large, with diesel costing .50 or more than regular, or very small, with one station pricing diesel .03 LESS than regular!

I don't know why the price of diesel is all over the place. I think some stations carry diesel, but really don't sell much, so they price it sky-high.

As for the station selling diesel for less than regular (GULF, Suffolk County, LIE Exit 56), diesel is less expensive simply because their gas prices are so high.

In general, I've found the difference lately to be diesel at 8-10% more than regular unleaded, and within a few cents one way or another compared to premium.

As others have noted, I pay around 10% more, but my mileage is over 30% higher.

That's a pretty good trade-off, in my opinion.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
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5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
In my state (MA), all of the diesel you buy is part biodiesel. If you buy diesel, you are buying a percentage of your fuel domestically. And we're talking about fuel that DOESN'T compete with food (you have to remove the soyoil to get to the high quality protein. Something ethanol can't say).
 
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Abismo

Active member
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Location
Creve Coeur, Missouri
TDI
WRX :)
But the fuel costs so much more than gas... :rolleyes:

I tell people who ask that I have no problem paying 10% more for diesel fuel when I go 30-40% further per gallon than a comparable gasser. And then there's the power advantage. When you put it in those terms, you can see the light bulbs light right up.
Unless you are sucking down premium hehe. Then its usually even, or cheaper.
 
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