Alh rebuild for longevity

I am probably about to buy my old car back for $600. A twin to the car in my sig. Both engines have blowby, and drink alot of oil. Likely, i will pull the engine from my old car, and rebuild it to drop into my current car. What would everyone recommend for a rebuild? Depending on how pistons look, and how worn the cylinders are, will obviously dictate whether or not a hone will take care of the job, or if i will need a bore, but will probably go with new pistons. For sure will replace main and rod bearings, and measure tolerances, and likely will get the engine blueprinted and balanced. Considering new connecting rods, not sure if billett rods would even be a consoderation at that power level. Definitely going back with head studs. Any other ideas? Will be getting a valve job done on the head as well.

Send the head to Franko for a refresh.

Some people think that a hone in place is not a great idea because it leaves micro-grit embedded in the cylinder wall. I don't know how you'd refresh a hone without doing that though. If the cylinders are oval, of course you need to bore it to the next size up and that will require new pistons.

The con rods can be kept if the big ends are still round. Billet con rods? Head studs? For stock power, even a reasonable increase, why? You won't be r&r-ing the head habitually will you?

Good luck on this! Now for the endless arguments on break-in for the refreshed engine...

Cheers,

PH

Measure the bores, if they are servicable, I would re-ring if the pistons look good, and replace valve seals and maybe touch up the seats depending on condition.

I don't hone cylinders unless I rebore.

I used to rering cars for my father who sold used cars. I used a flat hone and if it would smooth out the cylinder without much trouble, the new rings would work. I saw many of his old cars on the road for years. A ball hone will just follow a bad cylinder and not seal good.

Frank and i had a bit of an issue a couple years back, and i highly doubt he wants my business, but i do know he is "the man" with these heads. I will use someone local to me. Regardless, a cylinder head is a cylinder head when it comes to rebuilding one. Im not getting any porting or anything special done, and i will be very straight forward with whoever rebuilds the head on how tight the tolerances need to be, and to not shave much off of the head. It will not be some gasser shop either. I have rebuilt/ inframed several large diesel engines, so im no stranger to this kind of work.

I will likely stick with stock rods, but haven't done any research on what power level they need to be upgraded on these motors. I will for sure be going back with head studs. Cheap insurance. I dont PLAN on ever making over 200hp on this motor, but who knows, maybe one day that will change. I'd rather install studs once, and not worry about it. And they are re usable in the event the head does have to come back off. The head will get a full valve job.

I will absolutely be measuring the bores. Need to price pistons as well. I would feel better about a rebuild with new pistons, that haven't had a million heating and cooling cycles on them, although I know it is not a necessity. My goal here is reliability and longevity.

My car has 250k on it btw, and blowby has gotten so bad, it is now blowing the dipstick out on a hard run. I can only attribute my issues on both cars to previous owners running improper oil... neither car i could ever get better than 40 mpg. Current cars oil consumption got so bad i switched from rotella t6 5w40 to delo 15w40, because why the hell not if the rings are already toast, figured id be better off with thicker oil. Still drinking it down. I'd say i use roughly a gallon every 3k miles, it may have gotten worse by now, I quit keeping track, just adding oil as needed.

Heads are flat, you can shave a much as you want as long as the valve clearance is OK. That is also why they baffle a lot of shops because they are used to chambered heads that gassers use.

I have rebuilt two ALH engines and have a 100% success rate. I use frank 06 rebuilt head, bore and install ASV+.5MM pistons, all new main and rod bearings, polished crank , and new nozzles. Very easy engine to rebuild as long as you take your time and watch for pitfalls.

Both ALH engines I had rebuilt needed oversize pistons. Honing an already worn out bore is not going to help.

Vendors for pistons, also some VW Facebook groups sell them as they have sold off the car or gone a different route.

If never going for 200hp, just rebuild stock with the head studs. Bearings might be reusable.

You'll need new main bolts, rod bolts as well. Get a new oil pump chain and maybe an oil pump but take it apart first.

If the cam is good, then MAKE sure you keep the lifters mated with the cam lobe otherwise budget a new cam and lifters.

I would never re-ring without honing, people say they get away with it but rings never fully seat and you are back where you started.

Break in, drive it like you stole it,

Reading the original post and your response #5 it seems as if you already know the answers for the engine rebuild.
OEM connecting rods and a well built head, not sure if there are better valve seals but that is what I would look into.

The only further considerations I would have is upgraded turbo and adding after market sensors to keep up with the status.
Boost/EGT, Oil pressure/Temp, maybe volt meter.

What more input are you looking for?

Just re-read your post in #6.
Did you happen to do a PCV filter mod on this car?
I see the EGR delete and race pipe.
Was talking to the local recommended mechanic today and he was saying the PCV filter can cause the valve seals to go bad.
If this is where your blowby is coming from you could just redo the head and replace.

My crank case is vented to the atmosphere, no obstruction there. Quite a bit of oil comes out of it. I was basically wondering if going back with stock rods, pistons, valves, valve seals, lifters, etc was the best route to go, or if there were better aftermarket parts. Also, i will be replacing the lifters. No sense in having the head off and not replacing them. My cam is in suprisingly good condition, makes we wonder if it is the original or not.

ghohouston said:

My crank case is vented to the atmosphere, no obstruction there. Quite a bit of oil comes out of it. I was basically wondering if going back with stock rods, pistons, valves, valve seals, lifters, etc was the best route to go, or if there were better aftermarket parts. Also, i will be replacing the lifters. No sense in having the head off and not replacing them. My cam is in suprisingly good condition, makes we wonder if it is the original or not.

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Better pistons cost more than OE replacements and are forged, so they have to be set looser in the bore, which means ring seal isn't as good and for a stockish build, totally overkill.

You don't replace lifters without replacing the cam as I said earlier, they wear together and if you change one without the other, you will cause accelerated wear of the cam/lifters.

ASV pistons, PD100 rods are a major upgrade for stock ALH parts.

Researching the asv pistons in stock size, they should drop right in, if i dont need a bore?

Looks like its about time to get this project going. Car drank over a gallon of oil on a 400 mile round trip. Slobbering oil from at least 2 exhaust ports, if not all of em too. Been that way for a while though. Guessing my rings finally broke. 284 k miles. The car had blowby when i bought it about 2 years ago, around 215k on it then. Oil consumption has been probably 2 gallons or so between 10k oci intervals, but has increased here lately. Got the oil light for the first time of ownership. https://youtu.be/b1cMZGuoipI

When it comes to cams and lifters, always replace them as a set. Never replace one without the other unless you want replace more parts way too soon. I was taught over 30 years ago cams and lifters do as a set. If removal is necessary for some reason, make sure the lifters always go back on the same lobes they came off of.

Yes, will be replacing the cam and lifters as well. This will be a full rebuild. Should i go with a colt cam, or another factory one? Will also be rebuilding the head. Pretty sure my head gasket is toast as well. Been drinking coolant, no external leaks, and building pressure in coolant system.

And can anyone say for sure what rods will work with asv pistons and stock alh crank?

Bueller

ghohouston said:

My crank case is vented to the atmosphere, no obstruction there. Quite a bit of oil comes out of it. I was basically wondering if going back with stock rods, pistons, valves, valve seals, lifters, etc was the best route to go, or if there were better aftermarket parts. Also, i will be replacing the lifters. No sense in having the head off and not replacing them. My cam is in suprisingly good condition, makes we wonder if it is the original or not.

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Now your sounding like you want a normal rebuild for the engine.

As mentioned already, if you replace the lifters, replace the cam.
Because of the blow by I wonder if the wrong oil was used some time by the previous owner and the rings are seized in the bore.
Until you open it you won't know for sure.

A machine shop would have to measure the bore if you do not have the internal micrometer.
The bore has to be round and not tapered.

If your not looking for a lot of performance stock parts should be fine.

I stopped reusing valves when one of my air cooled VW's dropped a valve that was cut.
I was warned about it back then and did not heed the warning.

If you are planning performance later then maybe look into the internal parts that may be needed.

All Nural replacement pistons for ALH are ASV. I think Mahle still makes ALH pistons (no cooling galleys). Either will work with stock rods. If you're re-using rods make sure they're not bent.

I had bad luck with a hone and re-ring in my ALH to eliminate oil consumption. Bores were ovaled and the car still had blowby. If blowby is severe you may be better off having the block machined and going to oversize pistons.

I am needing to know what rods (other than stock alh rods) will work with asv pistons and a stock alh crank, as i am looking to make a bit more power. I already know the p.o. ran gasser oil in it. Found one of the stickers from a quick lube place in the car. It had blowby when i bought it just over 200k. I've probably gotten 85k miles or so out of it, with the oil consmption. I have inframed several diesel engines with success, so i already know about checking the bores. I've already decided if any hole is out of round, ill be boring it out and installing oversized asv pistons and will have to shave a bit off the block. And yeah, no way in hell ill be re using valves with ear 300k on em. Its cheap insurance for me.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

All Nural replacement pistons for ALH are ASV. I think Mahle still makes ALH pistons (no cooling galleys). Either will work with stock rods. If you're re-using rods make sure they're not bent.

I had bad luck with a hone and re-ring in my ALH to eliminate oil consumption. Bores were ovaled and the car still had blowby. If blowby is severe you may be better off having the block machined and going to oversize pistons.

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What did it cost you for the boring/decking?

I didn't do it. I bought a new factory long block. My cost on the block was not much more than machining, parts, and labor for the block. And I felt fortunate to find a remaining ALH factory block. 60K miles on it now.

That's a lot of blow by in that video...curious to see how it looks once you get it apart.

Another thought...see if you can find another engine without so much blowby - it could save you a lot of machine work.

Setting realistic goals now is important, otherwise you end up with "while it's apart" syndrome (and how I ended up with $10k in my ALH when I broke a piston). Do you want 200HP/400ft-lbf with longevity or do you want 150HP/250ft-lbf with longevity - it's a much different list.

If you're going to stay under 250 ft-lbf torque, not pull a trailer for hours on end with high EGT's, etc I'd go with stock/near stock components. If ASV pistons are the same money as ALH's, go with the ASV's. If they're 50% more, not much point in that.

Stock rods are fine, bearings, bolts, etc. Head studs are nice, but at $1.50 each vs $19 each for something that does not need it, also does not seem like much point to me.

Cam, I would stay stock as well, my opinion is that the "Stage 2" aftermarket ALH cams available don't do much for performance or efficiency in the RPM's where you drive every day. If you're aiming for high RPM power and don't mind a little low RPM compromise, then they're good for it.

See the "Rebuilt Head" link in my signature for what I did for head rebuilding. I bought all the components from IDParts.

Measure piston protrusion BEFORE you take the bottom end apart to insure you don't need a 4 hole head gasket . Decking the block and head are a good idea for head gasket sealing but be careful how much you take off the block (see above).

I went for the 200 HP/400 ft-lbf reliability path - rods, ARL pistons, ceramic coated, head work, studs, girdle, sputter bearings, small oil pump sprocket, cam, etc. See signature for details - many of the links go to my "Where to stop?" thread.

Good advice, Matt. The long block I put in my car replaced an engine with 265K on it, 120K of it with a 26 PSI, 6000 RPM tune. When I went to a stock long block I downsized injectors from PP764s to PP357s, switched from a 17/22 to a VNT-15, and from RC6 to RC3+. My original engine had valves loose enough in the guides that you could wiggle them with your finger, and 4 bent rods.

In daily driving I like the car better this way. And it was far less expensive than keeping the engine strong enough to reliably make the power I was making previously.

ghohouston said:

I am needing to know what rods (other than stock alh rods) will work with asv pistons and a stock alh crank, as i am looking to make a bit more power. I already know the p.o. ran gasser oil in it. Found one of the stickers from a quick lube place in the car. It had blowby when i bought it just over 200k. I've probably gotten 85k miles or so out of it, with the oil consmption. I have inframed several diesel engines with success, so i already know about checking the bores. I've already decided if any hole is out of round, ill be boring it out and installing oversized asv pistons and will have to shave a bit off the block. And yeah, no way in hell ill be re using valves with ear 300k on em. Its cheap insurance for me.

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I still have 7 out of 8 original valves on my 380K mile ALH and have no issues. Had Franko6 do the head and he cuts them makes them like new. Valves can be expensive because I was told they are sodium filled.

For the lower end I originally did the in frame re-ring/hone job and that just resulted in more oil consumption. Finally broke down and had the block bored, installed .5mm over ASV pistons and PD100 cracked rods. Engine has run fastastic ever since and very little oil consumption. Machine shop said the bores were egged out pretty bad.

Head studs are cheap insurance imo (worth it to me). Same with replacing valves, how many heat cycles do you figure a near 300k mile valve has on it? Of course you CAN run them, and likely without issue, but i have that kind of luck that id drop a valve right after the rebuild. I will definitely replace valves.

Turbocharged798, what did it cost you to bore out? Are the pd100 rods a direct fit with asv pistons and stock alh crank? Don't you have to deck the block also with the oversized asv pistons, due to the pistons being a bit different than the standard bore ones? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. I definitely dont have $10k to throw at this motor, but im sure it wouldn't be hard to if i had the money lol.

And fyi, if you couldn't tell, the video was taken at roughly 2,800 rpm's, not idle. The oil doesn't show as bad at idle. I wanted to see where my oil was going, so shoved a coolant jug between acc and brake pedal. It definitely has blowby at idle too. Been waiting for someone to tell me the car is on fire at a stop sign/light.

turbocharged798 said:

I still have 7 out of 8 original valves on my 380K mile ALH and have no issues. Had Franko6 do the head and he cuts them makes them like new. Valves can be expensive because I was told they are sodium filled.

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I wonder what cutting the valves costs. New valves for this engine are $12.95 each.

ghohouston said:

Head studs are cheap insurance imo (worth it to me). Same with replacing valves, how many heat cycles do you figure a near 300k mile valve has on it? Of course you CAN run them, and likely without issue, but i have that kind of luck that id drop a valve right after the rebuild. I will definitely replace valves.

Turbocharged798, what did it cost you to bore out? Are the pd100 rods a direct fit with asv pistons and stock alh crank? Don't you have to deck the block also with the oversized asv pistons, due to the pistons being a bit different than the standard bore ones? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. I definitely dont have $10k to throw at this motor, but im sure it wouldn't be hard to if i had the money lol.

And fyi, if you couldn't tell, the video was taken at roughly 2,800 rpm's, not idle. The oil doesn't show as bad at idle. I wanted to see where my oil was going, so shoved a coolant jug between acc and brake pedal. It definitely has blowby at idle too. Been waiting for someone to tell me the car is on fire at a stop sign/light.

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Frank has a fantastic reputation and I would contact him and ask him about the valves. At the time I did an idiotic thing removing the valves and broke a stem off. Sent him the head and he replaced the broken valve and cleaned up the rest. He knew how miles were on the head and told me the other valves are fine for a long time. Almost 150K miles since and he was right. I know he also told me that there are a lot of inferior valves floating around that are cheap but don't last.

I recall it cost $600 for the machine shop work on the block alone. They bored the cylinders, decked the top, and polished the crank that was in it. I did run into the ASV piston height issue but was able to get away with a one hole head gasket.

I put in PD100 rods because they are stronger than ALH rods and are a drop in replacement. You just have to grind down the locator tangs on the bearings. I put in stock head bolts for the time being but plan on putting in PD150 head bolts at some point. I don't have a crazy hot tune so I do not see the point.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I wonder what cutting the valves costs. New valves for this engine are $12.95 each.

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I think I was included in the base charge for the head so no charge. The new valve Frank sold me cost a lot more than that...

Thanks for all the info. Frank and I do not do business. As myself, and others have pointed out before, this isnt some ridiculously complicated engine. No reason a good machine shop familiar with diesel engines cant do a bore and valve job. I spoke with a local guru today, and possibly found a reputable machine shop.