Who knows about Mercedes Diesels?

Well I ask because i found a 1997 NON turbo diesel mercedes with 90k miles on it and am considering making it my driver. Ive browsed benzworld and all those places and its generally no different opinions then here......Quirky cars that require attention by there owners etc., also noticed they have major issues with breaking glowplugs and that the intake manifold needs to come off to service them. Other then that what can you all tell me? The car had actually really good pickup i thought it would be abysmal being N/A. It needs tires and the right front has some play in it. I suspect tie rods but its no biggie to change those.

Don't believe that you'll escape the maladies that plague VW diesels of the same era. It's a good machine, but it's slow compared to the 1998/99 cars which have vastly superior performance. On the flip side, the 1996/97 cars will offer superior fuel economy in comparison.

On a positive note, the cars are far easier to work on, IME. How's the rust? How many miles on it? When were GPs last swapped out? Transmission ever serviced? Front seats have any support left?

seats are great. it has 90k. One VERY small rust spot by the headlamp. GP`s NOT changed yet. Spring perches are in good shape almost every option works. One of the rear headrests arent flipping down with the button (thats minor). Other then that seems fine

That's very low miles! Perhaps it's worth pursuing.

If the glow plugs can't easily be removed, then the head comes off It's better to do them on a preventitive basis and deal with it while they can still be removed.

The FAILS on these cars are almost predictable, that's a positive. The MBz forum has a well-managed DIY section that will address the routine problems/maintenance.

yea ive had a few gas jobs so i kno about windows and front ends and all that jazz

I just bought a '93 300D, previous generation to the one you're looking at. And it's a 2.5 TD, not the 3.0 NA. I do recall driving a '96 (first year of the W210) and thinking it was pretty quick.

The 300D is wonderful. The car I got was kind of a find: pretty high miles (176K) but garaged, original owner, always dealer serviced, and got a new transmission 12k ago. And the interior is immaculate.

I put OE shocks in it, new tires, changed the oil and put in new filters. That's about it so far. The reading I've done indicates these are pretty reliable. And so far I'm finding parts reasonably priced. I'm also getting 33+ MPG, which isn't bad for a bigger IDI with an automatic.

People on the forums complain that the W210s suffered from M-B cost-cutting moves, but I don't know the extent that's accurate. One thing I do appreciate about mine is its simplicity, all the way to not having any cupholders.

My grandparents purchased a 1996 E300 brand new.... it was their 5th MB, 4th diesel, and BY FAR the worst car they ever had.

It drove nice, was very nice looking, very frugal (that engine has plenty of real world power, even without the turbo). But it was much more fragile than the W124 they had before it, and even that was not as good as the 2 W123s and W115 they had.

Rusted spring perches, window regulators, evaporator core, fuel lines, ball joints, door lock actuators, more ball joints, random dead batteries, etc. Then the transmission died.

I spent 1 month at an MB dealership, all the veteran techs there agreed that except for the W140 (the S-class that replaced the W126) the W210 car was one of the worst.

I still like them though, but man it was quite a shock to my poor elderly grandparents that had gotten used to doing NOTHING to the W123s but routine scheduled PM, brakes, and tires to actually have to come to a first name basis with tow truck drivers and dealership personel, as well as being able to critique all the various loaner cars they drove (which ultimately was their driving force to purchase a Camry ).

I do believe, if you stay on top of everything they are still a great driving, great looking car... one of the last good looking MBs IMHO. But I had to laugh, when at the MB dealer, we actually had a "designated tow truck drop off zone" that I swear was ALWAYS full...

MB ranking of diesel models (subjective)

While you guys are at it, how about making a short list of the models/years that start with the most reliable (least issues) to the least reliable for the MB's (say starting in the '90s (edited)). I have an eye on an older one ('97) that looks pretty good but I am hesitant to do much at this time. No need to go into a lot of detail, but just a list (thanks).

1.
2.
3.
etc

IndigoBlueWagon said:

People on the forums complain that the W210s suffered from M-B cost-cutting moves, but I don't know the extent that's accurate.

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It is accurate and unfortunate. We've had two of them. The later W210 cars were certainly beginning to show some improvement. Very nice machines when all is right

On a positive note, there are people out there with the early 210 cars that had good experiences with them.

aja8888 said:

1.
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T, are you asking about diesel-powered exclusively?

dieseldorf said:

T, are you asking about diesel-powered exclusively?

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Yes, stated so in the post title.

Sorry, didn't notice that. So, you want people to comment on cars from the '70's, for example? Do you have a lot of spare time on your hands or are you asking about modern cars + uber-efficiency?

dieseldorf said:

Sorry, didn't notice that. So, you want people to comment on cars from the '70's, for example? Do you have a lot of spare time on your hands or are you asking about modern cars + uber-efficiency?

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You all seem to be knowledgeable on the 70's on up MB model platforms and comment on threads discussing them and later models. DD, I am a novice with respect to MB's, but there are several in the family (all gas).

I probably should be asking about the early 90's on up, which will be a shorter list I would imagine (and probably more realistic for this point in time). So, a list or the 90's era is what may be appropriate. (Edited original request post to reflect 90s)

My personal faves would be the W123 and W126 with the OM617 turbodiesel 5 cylinder, as well as the W123 and W115 with the non-turbo 2.4L (so long as you are not in a hurry).

oilhammer said:

My personal faves would be the W123 and W126 with the OM617 turbodiesel 5 cylinder, as well as the W123 and W115 with the non-turbo 2.4L (so long as you are not in a hurry).

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Thanks.

Well, here’s my $.03. A personal favorite of mine is the car Peter just found: W124 5-cylinder turbodiesel 300D 2.5Turbo. IIRC, it was produced from 1990.5 thru 1993. Problem is, in my area the majority of these cars are off the road and parked in the boneyard (think rust, general deterioration).

The cars then transitioned to a NA I6 diesel thru 1995. This engine was carried over in 1996 and 1997 in the new W210 cars that have had issues. 1998 and 1999 had the same engine but turbocharged and vast shift in performance. I think this was the point where they went to the fully electronic 5 spd gearbox. Diesel sales were halted in NAmerica ‘til the return of the 2005 car. This was still an I6 config, but fitted with DI. Personally, the 2005/2006 cars would receive my strongest consideration if I were in the market for a vehicle. They epitomize Euro luxury coupled with unmatched fuel economy cuz they’re finally DI. DBW owns one of these, read some of his comments. And they aren’t saddled with these elaborate exhaust after-treatment systems or urea injection.


I’m tired of the used (beat up/rusty/ill-maintained) cars offered up on the internet and everywhere else. There’s some real garbage out there people are trying to pass off as viable. My taste for perpetual weekend repair sessions has faded, I no longer look forward to it. I dunno, how many people really want to get started in with these worn-out, old buckets that are 15 -30 years old? I don’t.


This car Mr. Ant references at the start of this thread could be interesting. He hasn’t mentioned the price, so it’s hard to assess what he’s getting himself into and whether he has set aside adequate reserves to care for it over the long haul. Frankly, I owned a 1995 E300D (last W124) and I found it to be truly under-powered out on the road… it was OK around town. This problem was amplified by the brand new Passat TDI wagon parked next to it in the garage which would blow its doors off and do so with superior fuel economy and space.

T, you might get lucky and find something “special” in your corner of the globe where you don’t endure winter conditions. There are some sweet cars out there…one must dedicate some time to a search to find these jewels and be prepared to maintain ($$$) it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-MERCEDES-BENZ-300D-TURBO-DIESEL-96K-MILES_W0QQitemZ190387753831QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2c53fe9367

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-E300-Turbo-Diesel-Salvage-title-75xxx-Miles_W0QQitemZ200459062112QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2eac4a8b60


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-MERCEDES-BENZ-300D-TURBO-DIESEL-LEATHER-LOW-MILES_W0QQitemZ180489576909QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2a060461cd

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-MIDSIZE-TURBO-ECLASS-DIESEL-SEDAN_W0QQitemZ270560130151QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3efea3f467

Before their W210, the W124 my granparents had was the 2.5L turbo 5 (1992 model IIRC). It was a decent car, far more refined that the W123, but slightly more fragile in some respects. It had very few issues overall though. That engine is the same OM60x family as introduced in the little 190D 2.2L as well as the 3.0L inline 6, just with that wonderful signature 5 cyl "thrum" .

The W124 is also a very well sorted road car, and to me is much more akin to the W126 than a W123.

As you note, far more modern than its W123 predecessor...

DD, thanks, we do have the luxury of having no rust issues down this way compared to the Homeland.

Possibly, the later models (2005-2006) should be the target for the factors you mentioned. I guess my brain keeps me thinking I can continually crawl under cars to change front end parts, etc, but in all reality, my body is resisting more than ever these days. Maybe a deal on an older MB is not a deal for the older enthusiast.

I am looking at retirement (from daily employment) later this year (bad economy, less contracts for us, etc), and will be driving a lot less going forward. The Passat is a nice car, but I may hand it down in the family and find myself another road machine. The way I am pouring miles on the Passat, it will have well over 100+K by years end. I am pondering the MB's as a replacement.
.

Well, don't get me wrong, the cars are easy to work on and maintain. It's just that when things start to go wrong, there is a lack of a tool like VCDS, which could force a trip to the stealer.

dieseldorf said:

Well, don't get me wrong, the cars are easy to work on and maintain. It's just that when things start to go wrong, there is a lack of a tool like VCDS, which could force a trip to the stealer.

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I know, that's why I am interested in which years/models were the most reliable. My sister-in-law has an older 500S and has had some eye-opening repair charges. But she has no clue and just relies on the dealer. I have an edge up on that, but without diagnostic scanning capabilities, left out there too.

aja8888 said:

I know, that's why I am interested in which years/models were the most reliable. My sister-in-law has an older 500S and has had some eye-opening repair charges.

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Having had Benzes in the family for decades, it pains me to say that there really isn't any vintage you can focus on to escape potentially monstrous repair bills as these beasts age. (You can escape it by signing up for a new car that has full warranty and free maint.)

The newest diesels are supposed to represent a period where their quality shows significant improvement. I have close contacts at several of the dealerships near my home...both my boys report very good things about the newest cars and no widespread issues or concerns.

Keeping it all in perspective, we have 1998 and 1999 diesels in our family. They have not been problematic in any way. The cars would long since have disappeared if that was the case

I agree on the refinement. After 8 years of driving nothing but VWs I'm impressed by how smooth and quiet the W124 is. And it does have that nice 5 cyl. hum.

FWIW, I swapped out all four shocks in the car in about 3 hours with no instructions or lift. It was dead easy, and would probably take half the time next time. All the bolts came out, stuff is easy to reach, no spring compressors needed. Fluid and filter changes were equally easy.

The only thing that worries me about the car is the vacuum system. As long as that's working properly I'm good, but I understand that if it starts to give trouble all kinds of issues can arise.

One of our forum brothers here at Fred's very recently picked up a used 1999. I've asked him to drop in and share a few thoughts...I suspect he'll have quite a lot to say...

Thanks fellows, good food for thought. I have time to look and research the market, and if I am pushed into retirement (God forbid), I may have more than enough time.

dieseldorf said:

One of our forum brothers here at Fred's very recently picked up a used 1999. I've asked him to drop in and share a few thoughts...I suspect he'll have quite a lot to say...

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I hope he does jump in with his opinions, etc. I have poked around the MB boards, but find them somewhat biased (like here with TDI's).

MB's vacuum systems can be complex, but they have all but abandoned that in favor of electrical bits.

I agree the newest stuff, after hitting rock bottom on quality control, is probably pretty good. However, it seems to me that MB (at least here anyways) have simply gone off the deep end on building crazy scary overprice, overpowered, AMG and such cars and gone after the bling factor. This of course alienated many older more conservative customers. It amazes me that the same company that won over so many accolades for durability and such with the stodgy cars like the 240D could now be the enjy of all the Jay-Z crowd with things like the E65 AMG.... 600hp E-class... do we REALLY need that?

Now all we need is an AMG trim Sprinter

i picked up a 98 e300 in Jan. I had been interested in them for some time, then we unexpectedly lost the Passat, this car was available locally, and the price was quite low- so I took the plunge planning on fixing it up myself.

the rust on this one is really bad. I have already replaced both front fenders from another unit that wasn't so bad, and am making arrangements to procure both passenger side doors. The pan under the battery is badly rusted and will be repaired. the rear fender wheel arches are both rusted and will also be repaired. I need to do some work on the very complex rear suspension to solve a constant thunking noise.

The ESP/BAS/ABS function has not worked consistently. After trying the brakeswitch that 99% of the time fixes this, I broke down and had it to an indy garage for a code scan. They pointed to the lateral acceleration sensor being kaputt. This part is >$2K at the dealer! I found a used one on a German site for around $75. Just got it this past week and will try to install it this weekend after finishing my taxes .

I really like the power, ride and comfort (and the black leather interior is spotless), but I've only seen >30 mpg once so far on a long interstate trip.

So bottom line is there are good and bad with each vehicle, but know what you're getting into and resign yourself to the fact that the MB will need at least as much attention as your VW.

Tom: thanks for your input on the MB. It sounds like you bit off a big one with the rust issues. I assume it is only the harsh Michigan winters and salt use in ice control that have caused the problem. If I were to look for one of these specimens, it would have to be a southern car, which, hopefully would not be plagued with corrosion.

How is the engine/transmission condition? Mileage on the car?

Tony