Seventh-generation VW Golf

Status
Not open for further replies.

DasTeknoViking

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Location
Palatine IL
TDI
B4 TDi, A4 R32
I track my JSW and drive it pretty hard, and to top it off I can't go smaller than 18s due to the brakes being too big.

I can tell you that my bone stock JSW 2.0T is slow as molasses and is a squealing pig around any kind of road course. With a set of matched dampers and springs specifically designed for them along with big rear sway bar and upgraded front bushings along with the Rears the car is a night and day difference. Throw on a set of same contact patch 18" wheels and it's even more sticky.

I find MkIVs to handle like pigs to begin with, with a lift kit and big balloon tires they must really drive like old Delta 88s if subjected to any kind of spirited driving.

Have owned few MkIVs and the mkv+ platform and on is light-years ahead of them in terms of handling.

I would like to contribute to this thread with a picture of my 2014 Beetle 1.8T 6spd auto rental I just had in California. My average was about 42-44mpg on the MFD and 41 calculated at fill up. I wasn't trying to get the best mileage since it's a rental but out of my own curiosity I drove it like I would if I had owned it.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
The beetle rental I had in Phoenix last November gave me low 30s.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Unless you drove long enough to put 3 tankfuls in, your mileage will vary! :)
 

DasTeknoViking

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Location
Palatine IL
TDI
B4 TDi, A4 R32
I put about 160 miles on my bug around silicone Valley. Wish I had it still cause my Mustang rental i got now is gonna suck up the gogo juice as I am about to take it down Pacific Coast Highway from San Francisco to LA

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
 

2.2TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
TDI
⠀⠀
We won't know until it shows up in showrooms.
Why would it make a difference when it shows up in showrooms? The only thing I can think of is that it will confirm which version we get... unless you mean the dealers will be able to tell us why?
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
My guess is it's not a built in Mexico thing, but rather a North American market thing.

A Golf is a more premium car in Europe than it is here, and our Golf sits in a market position more similar to that of, say, the SEAT Leon. (Europe's premium family car is our sporty cheapish hatchback.) So, our Golf gets cost-reduced to fit into the Leon's price bracket. Things like the electronic parking brake get dropped.
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
While the hip-hop part is amusing......

The real issue is the definition of the word 'handling.'
...

...

...

At a certain point, yes, too tall of a tire and too soft of a suspension will make for poor handling (as measured as speed through a corner.) But the 'hip-hop' setup will also fare worse than a suspension and tires that actually has some compliance, and can maintain good road contact.
Sorry for abbreviating your post fru, but I want to add more to your point(s). The quality of ride and handling is a personal choice. I just swapped out my OEM 215 55/R17 tires (Passat) for Yokahama 215 60/R17 Avid Ascend. They look more round, even though they are taller. But these are low rolling resistant, high mileage tires made with orange oil (that's mostly just "green", but also cools them down).

The ride is quieter than the OEM tires, they track straight, needed small weights for balancing (very precise good molding) and the ride is comfortable-not harsh like ultra -low profile high performance tires. If that's what I wanted, I'd have gotten 18" wheels and put soem soft sticky 45s on there. I don't drive like that any more though.

What's important to me is the rpm dropped a few percent in every gear and these tires will probably get me a boost in MPG on the highway (I don't expect anything in the city). And at the same time, the more "balloony" profile gives me a comfortable ride (bumps and potholes better absorbed).

Sticking with the 215 footprint will also help it cut through slush and snow. They will also resist floating on standing water better than 225s (or 235s).

Low profile tires look great, and they beat me through the twisties. If they are made of that soft stickier compound, you'll leave me in the dust. I had BF Goodrich 50s on my 88 CRX and the thing stuck to the road like glue, pointed like a laser. Raucous smooth and controllable 4 wheel drift even if I was accelerating through the curve. Wow-FUN to drive, but it also had harsh response to ANY road abnormality. They also ground down all too quickly (my enthusiastic driving accelerated that process, but I was 25 years old).
 
Last edited:

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
I don't drive like that any more though.
That's the gist of it. Nor do I drive like that anymore. I find that the OEM tires and suspension set up on both our Golf Wagon (Mk V) platform and Golf hatch (Mk VI platform), are more than enough for everyday driving.

The hatchback does handle noticeably better, without sacrificing much ride quality, but I assume that's due to being a more recent chassis design. The difference is not enough to get me to spend thousands of dollars on modifications.

Taking a G/JSW to the track? I guess if that floats one's boat. I never was into that and what little interest I may have had, at my age (56) is long gone. I get my thrills from my other toys (slick road bikes, and of course my plane). If I were interested in taking a car to the track, I'd keep our wagon as-is and trade my 2011 hatch on a GTI.

Speaking of which, I'm at the dealer getting the 30k km service done on our wagon, and the first GTIs have arrived, so I had a look.

Sharp, but not sharp enough to get me all juiced up about trading my Mk VI TDI. I don't spend like that anymore either :p
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
The lines between sports hatch, crossover, and 4 door hatch are blurred. Part of this is due to the differences in what Europe and North America considers to be a family car. But the new "tallish" 4door Golf is called Golf SV in UK, just Sportsvan in Spain/Europe, but rolling out later this Summer in those parts.
UK version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBMi98P5Ti8
Spanish version(s):
http://www.lavanguardia.com/motor/20140602/54408607065/volkswagen-golf-sportsvan-practico.html

I think it looks better than the seventh gen Golf (nice front end, and wheels), though it really doesn't seem any different overall besides styling (slight size difference?). One significant difference that we'll NEVER see is that Spain has 1.6L as well as 2.0L TDI versions of this car.

This version of Golf may deserve its own thread, but not really... since comparing specs between 7th gen Golf and Golf Sportwagen is like splitting threads. It is just 4 doors and a hatch.

But associating the word "van" with this Golf SV is a stretch. It is smaller than NA crossover class.
 
Last edited:

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
The Sportsvan is what used to be called the Golf Plus.

And the Tiguan is a chunkier-looking, long wheelbase Golf Plus.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
I wouldn't call it a "van" either, but it seems very nice in all respects. Besides slightly different dimensions, I wonder what else distinguishes it from the Mk7 Golf. Three-part rear sliding seats, rear windows "roll" down flush to the frame, cupholder location in the back, panoramic sun roof. Also, that extra room in the back might make a difference for families with children still needing child seats.

What would it take to add this to the production lines in Puebla, MX, since that's the only way we would ever see this in the US and Canada?
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
It's definitely DOHC, but... from VW's press release on the 2015 US-spec Golf TDI:

The aluminum-alloy crossflow cylinder head has a number of unique features. First, the camshafts are integrated into a separate housing by a thermal joining process, ensuring a very rigid camshaft bearing while keeping the weight low. Second, each overhead camshaft operates one intake valve and one exhaust valve per cylinder (as opposed to one camshaft for intake valves only and one for exhaust), allowing for greater air delivery and swirl. The engine features variable cam phasing on the intake and exhaust valves.
You know, I wonder how that thermal management will work with the exhaust valves like that...

In any case, VWoA's SSP for EA288 doesn't mention the cam phasing anywhere.
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
It's definitely DOHC, but... from VW's press release on the 2015 US-spec Golf TDI:



You know, I wonder how that thermal management will work with the exhaust valves like that...

In any case, VWoA's SSP for EA288 doesn't mention the cam phasing anywhere.
That's four extra lobes per cam (more expensive). And I envision this as valves in opposite corners in the dome handling exhaust (or intake), in a criss-cross pattern. The head porting must also be more complicated (more expensive?), since the two intake, and two exhaust ports are no longer side by side. I would think this additional porting would HINDER the flow, and the intake ports would no longer be equal length (exhaust ports also).


This reminds me of some of Alpha Romeo's "driven to be different" mentality. Patentable, but not necessarily better.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
DOHC engines typically do have a lobe for each valve, though, so it's no more lobes than the EA189 engines. This is the valve layout of the 2009 and older engines:
Code:
Exhaust manifold
E-E--E-E--E-E--E-E
I-I--I-I--I-I--I-I
Intake manifold
This is the new setup:
Code:
Exhaust manifold
I-E--I-E--I-E--I-E
I-E--I-E--I-E--I-E
Intake manifold
And, VW wants the unequal-length intake runners on purpose to promote swirl. Essentially, they get to change the length of the intake tract through cam timing, rather than flapper valves.
 
Last edited:

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
DOHC engines typically do have a lobe for each valve, though, so it's no more lobes than the EA189 engines. This is the valve layout of the 2009 and older engines:
Code:
Exhaust manifold
E-E--E-E--E-E--E-E
I-I--I-I--I-I--I-I
Intake manifold
This is the new setup:
Code:
Exhaust manifold
I-E--I-E--I-E--I-E
I-E--I-E--I-E--I-E
Intake manifold
And, VW wants the unequal-length intake runners on purpose to promote swirl. Essentially, they get to change the length of the intake tract through cam timing, rather than flapper valves.
No more lobes. Oh.

I've adjusted clearance on Suzuki motorcycle engines that have one lobe pushing one triangular rocker arm. Saves weight and one lobe. You still have to adjust each tappet separately (not a shim/follower setup like the older original GS series DOHC eight valve engine-that was a pain).

Still, I'll bet the head castings are more expensive. Maybe it is a marginal difference.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
SOHC 4v/cyl engines are a thing (the Japanese have certainly made a ton of them), but there's significant gains from putting the injector in the center of the head, which can't be done on a SOHC engine.

I think only Mazda's done a SOHC 4v/cyl diesel. (There's plenty of single cam-in-block 4v/cyl diesels, because the rocker bridges don't get in the way of putting an injector in the center.)
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
SOHC 4v/cyl engines are a thing (the Japanese have certainly made a ton of them), but there's significant gains from putting the injector in the center of the head, which can't be done on a SOHC engine.

I think only Mazda's done a SOHC 4v/cyl diesel. (There's plenty of single cam-in-block 4v/cyl diesels, because the rocker bridges don't get in the way of putting an injector in the center.)
The cams (single actuating lobe system) I mentioned on the Suzuki motorcycle is the 16 valve DOHC, introduced as "twin swirl combustion chamber" or TSCC in the early 80's. But the cams have four lobes, each pushing a triangular rocker arm on a cam surface in the middle of the triangle. Each triangular rocker controlls two valves simultaneously. The spark plug is actually in the middle on that head (no injectors). They've probably gone to direct injection, but even early injection systems were not into the cylinder. kawasaki had them in the intake plenum, not even in the head (maybe they were first in the 4 cylinder Japanese bikes to use injection). I think it was the 900 cc Eliminator.


The TSCC had light valve/rocker arms that helped allow engine speed changes, left the middle of the cylinder accessible and available (spark plug). Early versions got too hot, but they added MUCH more oil circulation up there and moved the generator to a position behind the block (and eliminated the stator). This was the next gen, GSX block. Narrower, cooler, just as easy to work on.

Criss-cross exhaust/intake valve in this new TDI may help atomization, but I'd love to see the data. All else being equal, it must be a teeny sliver of improved performance or lower emissions. The cams will be interesting to look at!
 
Last edited:

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
EA288 turbo news

Peak Torque: 236 ftlb @ 1600 RPM
Turbo Manufacturer: Garrett
150 horsepower

As per dealer, more RPM, new manufacturer than Passat
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Peak Torque: 236 ftlb @ 1600 RPM
Turbo Manufacturer: Garrett
150 horsepower

As per dealer, more RPM, new manufacturer than Passat
VW claims that the Passat's peak torque is 236 lb-ft @ 1,750 rpm
 

FreezingInSask

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Location
Saskatchewan
TDI
Golf MK6 TDI
Has anyone come across any info on the tires/wheels for the new TDI's? I'd like to look at getting some 18s coming but would like to have a base line to start with.

Any help filling in the blanks would be appreciated.

OEM 17

Edit(Updated)

Tire Size: 225/45/R17
Bolt Pattern: 5/112
Offset:49mm
Centerbore:57.1
Rim Width:7
Weight:unknowen
 
Last edited:

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Hmm, best to wait to see one - Beetle and Jetta share platform and use different size tires. '14 GLI is 225/40R18 while Beetle is 235/45R18 for example. We had GTIs arrrive but neither were with 17".

EDIT: found some pre-release info in ELSA

P225/45R17 91H 7 J x 17 49mm offset.

Jason
 

FreezingInSask

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Location
Saskatchewan
TDI
Golf MK6 TDI
Hmm, best to wait to see one - Beetle and Jetta share platform and use different size tires. '14 GLI is 225/40R18 while Beetle is 235/45R18 for example. We had GTIs arrrive but neither were with 17".

EDIT: found some pre-release info in ELSA

P225/45R17 91H 7 J x 17 49mm offset.

Jason

Thanks for that info. I was just looking through golfmk7 forum, and the general feeling seems to be a 8x18 with 45mm offset will sit flush with the fender.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top