PD Reprofiled Stage II Chrome-Plated Cams

I know this is speculation at this point without dyno results, but do you think this cam would offer a performance increase on a BRM or would the stock BRM cam produce better numbers?

Frank
I just bought an 06 bug BEW with only 63hundred miles. Should this be done as a precaution while things are still ok with the cam?

boertje said:

Frank
I just bought an 06 bug BEW with only 63hundred miles. Should this be done as a precaution while things are still ok with the cam?

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See post #2

...and now for the price?

Hi Frank,

I just want to add my $.02:

This cam is wonderful. I have about 10K miles since installing it (and modified caps/bearings) this summer on my '04 (I bought the car with a bad cam, so no good before/after comparisons). My worst mileage tank has been 46mpg (all around town), with the best being 55mpg (exclusively highway). I have developed a notoriously heavy right foot resulting in excessive grinning and worn front tires.

I'm running stock exhaust and a mild tune: no smoke and the engine now winds to redline very quickly. I haven't had it on a dyno yet, but plan on it soon. Power comes on ~1800 and continues to ~4500. I'll post the dyno sheet when available.

Thank you for all of your help with this upgrade.

The chrome-plated cam journal is a performance modification which you can read more about in this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=326858

We are getting $100 for the modified cam bearings.

Franko6 said:

Diesel-Dave, there is a little parallax problem, as the bearing was not perfectly lined up in the picture. Regardless, the oiling path is about double what is required to meet with the needs of the bearing shell.

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cool Frank, i was just curious

Glad I no longer have to drill the cam caps and head!

Keep up the great work!

Franko6 said:

We have improved results matching up with another Stage II cam. Torque starts quite early; around 1800 rpm.

We will have dynos for a stock profile cam that is in good condition compared to a reprofiled cam shortly. It wouldn't be fair to compare a worn-out stock cam than it would be fair to use Stage II results for a Stage I cam. That would only make exaggerated results. Results will be based on a stock tune. We will try to get some Stage II chip-tune comparisons also.

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Would be very interested in those numbers.

vwjettadsl said:

Glad I no longer have to drill the cam caps and head!

Keep up the great work!

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Amen to that, once was enough.

Now I am thinking I might need to get a set of these for when I get a cam. I have the other style which I am not using yet-as cam is still OK. But I am thinking I need a clutch before that even before putting a stage two cam in. Keep up the good work Frank. Haven't forgotten you yet nor has my brother, we just haven't needed the cams just yet.

I know. Stay tuned. We have a lot of irons in the fire, but more than anything, we have a fire for TDI's.

Looks like I need to get a set to change with the timing belt before cam failure.

Frank,
How do I go about purchasing them and do they come with more instructions? I know I saw something about break-in oil somewhere and can't find it now. I would like to order what I need one time unless I can get it locally.

We have noted some cam bearing failures, especially on the number 1 bottom bearings. In some cases, when the bearings are poorly installed, the bearings can all be wiped out in the first few seconds.

Here are the four most likely reasons:

1. Correctly seating of the bearings. We recommend using a dead blow hammer and striking the top of the cam cap to seat the bearings.
2. Cleanliness is always important. Be sure the saddles, caps and bearings are perfectly clean.
3. Warped head. Check warp by cleaning the ways and attempt to rock the cam in the journals, with the bearings in.
4. Over-tightening the end bolts for the rocker shafts. Since there is only one bolt that goes through the end bearing caps, the torque force is off-center. This warps the cam cap, tilting it. Lower the end rocker bolt torque to 22 ft lbs.

So these are re-ground OE cams then correct? It looks like the lobes have been nitrided as well. Any re-hardening after the regrinding? I was thinking about one of the colt stage 2 cams, but then I saw more and more posts come up with them developing cracks even though they are fresh billets.

Mlemorie,

We use Febi and OEM cams. Testing we have done on the two cams show them to be identical in material, depth of hardness and Rockwell hardness.

We will reprofile a used cam, but only if the dimensions of the lobes are within a very tight margin and that the cam is in otherwise, excellent condition. Our cam company requires a minimum cam lobe height of 2.424" in order to regrind a used cam and maintain proper depth of hardness. Also, chrome-plating assures that the cam seal area and the cam journals are stock dimension, so wear to either of those areas is addressed.

The CAM FOLLOWERS are nitrided. The CAM LOBES are parkerized, otherwise called phosphating. The purpose of the nitrided lifters is as a sacrificial coating, to extend cam follower life. The purpose of the phosphate coating is to enhance the break-in by holding oil onto the cam lobe. The phosphate is a 'soft' coating that wears away as the cam mates to the lifters.

The issue of cracked cams was from a previous supplier, who has causes us several concerns. That particular issue of cam cracks was caused by aggressive removal of material. It is very common knowledge in the cam grinding business of that cause and effect. That is all I have to say about that....

My current manufacturer provides a minimum of 4 quality control checks to eliminate the question of inferior cams that might be caused from several reasons. The harder and tougher materials of a forged steel cam require a more patient method of material removal in order to keep from burning the cam.

There are enough misconceptions about how hardening is done and what cams should or should not be profiled. Let's put it this way: If you make a Stage I cam, it is good reasoning to say that it's because the depth of hardness may not be sufficient to make a Stage II cam. There is about .020" difference between the Stage I, or stock grind, and the Stage II grind. If then, a cam cannot make a Stage II cam, it would be some concern as to what depth of hardness is left making a Stage I cam. We could make some Stage I cams and work with a wider tolerance, but since we have no interest in making a Stage I cam, the point is moot for us.

There is a minimum tolerance of depth hardness that is allowable in order to regrind a cam. Although re-hardening of a forged steel billet cam can be done, it would only be done if necessary. In truth, it is not practical, as it would just about require a complete remake of the cam. A new cam would likely be cheaper. We are well within the hardness thickness limits. The bottom line: the re-hardening process is unnecessary.

We have made a Stage II cam with a profile that is proprietary. It is not a copy of any other cam design, but based on the expertise of a master cam grinder, specializing in diesel cam designs and most particularly the regrinding business, with a 55 year history in that business.

We currently are reprofiling OE cams. There is no need to re-harden, as the depth of hardness at the top of the cam is reduced only to widen the top of the lobe to increase the duration. The base circle is reduced .010", on a hardness depth of about .035" As the base circle is not supposed to be a wear issue (except when using the OEM profile and oil starving cam bearings), the small reduction in base circle will not reduce the depth of hardness to even come close to making an issue.

As an additional enhancement, we are chrome-plating the journals and cam seal surface. That makes the slickest, most wear resistant surface and insures an accurate sizing of the cam journals.

Thanks, lots of good information. I saw that the lobes were black, thats why I asked about the nitriding. I knew the lifters were nitrided and had the same/similar black finish.

Do you think these cams would have any effect on turbo creep? As in make it worse.

We haven't gotten any feedback that the cam in itself will cause a boost creep situation.

Boost creep is basically when there is more exhaust gas that needs to get around the turbo through the VNT or the waste gate then can be handled by the by-pass mechanism. That forces gasses that aren't needed by the turbo to push the turbo to pressures and speeds above demand.

Normally, the higher engine speeds is where the boost creep will occur. Porting the turbo exhaust outlet to increase flow is one of the acceptable practices. I know tuners that will control the boost creep by reducing fueling.

Reducing exhaust circuit back pressure and increasing the amount of exhaust that will flow through the turbo by-pass will cure most boost creep problems.

Ultimately, our main focus is longevity over high performance. Not that we aren't interested in performance, just that our focus is to cure premature wear issues. That does not lead to many boost creep problems.

Thanks for the reply Franko6, I believe I will be looking into your cam and bearings in the future as I am still running my stock cam at 185,xxx.

I recently installed one of these with head mods on a 04 BEW. Nice difference in power and general driveability. It is an excellent runner now. I am impressed.

The PD engines can have issues with turbo creep, but so can any turbo'd engine. If horse power demands are made without considering how to take care of the exhaust volume, the pressure must go elsewhere.

If a waste gate or variable nozzle isn't large enough to bypass enough exhaust gasses, the pressure will be diverted back through the turbo vanes, causing boost creep. Larger exhaust porting will help, if you experience that problem. There are several methods to do that. Chip-tuners will decrease fueling if the boost creep becomes a problem.

Certainly, any alteration to a turbo-induced engine should be checked for over boost conditions. As for the reprofile we use, there has been no boost creep issues of and by itself.

After the troll attack, more threads were removed than I expected. Sorry if your post was unintentionally removed.

I would like to address the matter of competition. Done properly and fairly, I think it is healthy the club members to have a choice. I am willing to provide some competition. However, there are some issues brought up recently that I feel the need to address.

1. "The cam I sell is overpriced". Actually, the cam I sell, based on the extra costs I incur, is very reasonably priced. Chrome-plating is expensive and difficult to do properly. Most cam operations will not take the time or trouble for this improvement. Although I will price a cam cheaper without the chrome, I think it's a cost-conscious improvement. I don't know who will do what we do any cheaper. The 'competition' is not cheaper, when you consider the cost of chrome-plating.

2. I've been attacked about re-profiling, regrinding... we ARE re-profiling the cam. I guess I don't like the negative connotation others give to 'regrind', but it also indicates no improvement of cam design.

In the same light, nobody seems to find a problem if you call a cast iron cam a 'billet' or a 'chill cast', to imply 'improved' in the public's view. It's still a cast iron cam. In our case, although it is a regrind, it is more particularly a changed profile, or re-profiled cam.

3. Another cam builder's interest is to discredit me concerning several issues. He builds among other things, Cummins cams. To him, I say this:

Cummins cams are a major revenue source of the company that I do my cam business with. They have a contract with Chrysler to take worn cams for the Cummins engine made for Dodge and restore them. That requires regrinding the cam and chrome-plating the journals, just like what is being done with my cams. They rebuild THOUSANDS of Cummins cams. Chrysler seems to like them. Our cam is made with no less integrity by the same company that makes all of those Cummins cams.

4. I've been accused of being a 'parrot', who knows nothing and just repeats what I've heard. Learning is done with great fatigue, when done for and by oneself. It is better to learn from others smarter than yourself and I have been known to repeat what smart guys tell me.

Especially if I am talking to the owner of a very successful company that repairs cams. He's done it for 55 years. What am I going to tell that man about cams?? He tells ME, and I am glad to say he is willing to take the time to do so on my little project and inform me what I need to know. It comes from his depth of experience in a variety of cams. Yes, I will be prone to repeat what he has told me.

5. I've been accused of copying another re-profiled PD cam. This is an odd statement, the one being copied is me! I can think of three things which I pioneered that have been copied. I expect to pioneer more engineering projects that are not unlikely to be copied. I should be pleased, as being copied is a form of flattery. As for my cam design, I am not, nor do I want to copy.

The improvements that we get from our cam profile were explained to me by the master cam grinder from my cam company. They are experts in diesel cam design. If anyone would know what would work best, they would. And they made their design based on their understanding of diesel cams, not what someone else thinks. The cam design is theirs, not mine and surely, not from anyone else.

I don't know everything. I do know how to find people who are experts at what I need. I don't make cams. My guys do. I don't make injector nozzles. I know those who do. In the near future, I'll need someone expert at aluminum casting. I don't know all the ins-and-outs.

I can't know and do everything. So I depend on those experts who do know and have specialized knowledge. Along the way, I run into some fascinating people who do things with passion... just like me.

Also, we have reconsidered our stance on the BRM cam profile. Initially, we discarded the higher lift profile of the BRM in lieu of the BEW profile. This was due to our impression of excessive wear which was greater on the BRM engines. Since we have made good improvements with the cam follower wear problems, we will be offering the BRM cam reprofiled to our proprietary cam design.

The advantages seem to be a bit more power for the guys who want 'all the beans'. Use of the BEW cam in the stock format in a BRM engine appeared to lose some toqure. Initial numbers when chip-tuning seem to show some advantage to the use of a BRM injector lobe over the BEW lobe design.

The reprofiled BRM cams should be available by next week.

Frank,

I called and left a message today on the availability of the BRM cams?

Please let me know.

Thanks
Allen

a_l_madrid,

The reprofiled BRM and BEW cams are in stock. The cams are ready for delivery along with our modified cam bearings and reusable bolt sets.

FYI: We are now also keeping South Bend Clutches in stock. Ask for our discounted pricing.

hevster1 said:

I recently installed one of these with head mods on a 04 BEW. Nice difference in power and general driveability. It is an excellent runner now. I am impressed.

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I wish I could say the same. Made no difference on my BEW

dieselpower04,

there are three reasons that we've seen that people don't feel a major difference.

1) They are already running way up in the HP, like 190's and the difference is not something you can FEEL. Even if the cam does add some HP, it's not percentage-wise, enough to physically feel it. I know you didn't dyno the cam.
2) you've run to the limit of what the injectors can supply. Isn't yours is the cam installed by Krout? Both he and I discussed this with you and it appears to be your particular problem.... you failed to mention that. I don't think your claim of 'no performance gain' is fair assessment when you exclude that bit of information .
3) The torsion value needs to be altered as much as 4.0+ to -6.0 to find where your engine runs best. Unfortunately, the crank lock has about a 1-2 degree inaccuracy. That will change where the camshaft degreeing needs to be set in order to maximize the performance of the cam.

In any case, your cam was toast and you needed a cam change. If you upgrade to the larger PD150 injectors, I am sure you will see the performance improve, but first, you need to experiment with your torsion value (VCDS/ Engine Module/ Block 4/ torsion value). The adjustment is about as fine as that of the ALH/ AHU's injection pump. A small movement can make a lot of difference.

I personally recommend moving the cam -2.0 points, running for fuel economy and check power, then move the torsion value +2.0 points and see what works.

It would be nice to make the torsion value setting more scientific, but until there is a decent way to find TDC, some experimentation is required.

I hope that gives you some basis to work for improvements on your cam setup.

Other than that, since you had your cam install, we have created a BRM injector profiled cam. The BRM injector lobe has a higher lift and it may be able to provide additional fueling for those who want 'all the beans'. Since we have created an improved oiling to the cam followers, we feel that the higher lift of the BRM should not be a wear issue when the cam is reprofiled and chrome-plated.

Other than that, be aware we are already catching flak for 'adding a wear coating' and the claim is that it's not needed. Isn't that a surprise... from the same ones that take over a year to come up with a cam...

Chrome-plating does raise the hardness to between 72-74 Rockwell, but that is not the only value for the chrome. It is also a great heat transfer medium, it is smooth as silk and the abrasion resistance is higher than the same hardness steel. It is a well-known performance addition.

To clarify on things with the torsion value how far out can they be before either the car won't read it and not start and/or a valve hits vs the amount that needs to be adjusted. I ask only as I think others are thinking it and it might calm some to know there my be a lot more play they can work with here without risk. Good to know this information as it might help us out with stock cams even with the torsion value. Keep up the good work.

interested in finding out what kind of impact this will have power-wise as well as with economy. Not in the market yet, but having just purchased my car, I'm starting my research now.