2002 Jetta fuel stingy

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
Any mileage differences between models? Golf, vs Jetta, vs Beetle, vs Passat. ALH vs BEW & so on here guys?
Thanks,
Dave
Remember, some owners are looking for mileage to be FE, and some are looking for range. That being said, in terms of FE:

Condition, transmission, and mods are key. Style of driving and city/highway/season are next.

ALH 5 speed is generally considered the MPG leader amongst stock cars, but many BEW owners can do as well. Jetta has a better cD than the Golf and Beetle, but G&B are lighter. The Mk IV wagon has a better CD than the others IIRC, and was originally stickered at 50 hwy for the 5 speed(compared to 49 for the others). Passat can be more difficult to get lifetime avg as high as the others.

A good driver with a stick and car in good condition can do well in all of them.

If you want long distance mileage, the old Passat wagon could hold, what, 22 gallons?
 

SaxmanKana

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Location
Leavittsburg, Ohio
TDI
Dweisel's Diesel, 2000 Blue Beetle 5 speed
What is CD? I haven't seen that one before!

So any 5-speed AHL should get 50+ MPG. 2 or four door! Coupe or wagon!

Thanks,
Dave
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
So any 5-speed AHL should get 50+ MPG. 2 or four door! Coupe or wagon!
Thanks,
Dave
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary

YMWV= Your Mileage Will Vary

That being said...

Summer, 5 speed, highway, slower speeds: 50 to 55+
Summer, 5 speed, highway, faster speeds:45-52
Winter, 5 speed, highway, slower speeds:40-50
Winter, 5 speed, city, cold start, short trips:30-40

Lessest of a factor: 2dr/4dr/sedan/hatch/wagon

More of a factor: Condition and maint of vehicle

Moreist of a factor: Transmission

Mostest of a factor: City/Hwy, season, driver, driving style
 

SaxmanKana

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Location
Leavittsburg, Ohio
TDI
Dweisel's Diesel, 2000 Blue Beetle 5 speed
Oh, DC or drag coefficient!

Have anymore pix of your Golf? I drool every time I see it, sweet car!

Thanks,
Dave

hskrdu, amazing that the weight or shape of these cars has no effect on MPG. I should do pretty good driving an ALH 5 speed than, since I was able to get in the low 40's with a Toyota Carolla 5speed that was government rated at 33MPG.

Thanks again for your info,
Dave
 
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hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
I wouldn't say that weight or shape has no effect, but rather that the impact is small enough, and other factors are more significant, that it is harder to separate out weight and body style. The 2 door Golf is lighter, but if you have a full tank, a full trunk, and a passenger, you weigh the same as the 4 door (or more). Some factors really hit you in city driving, but once you're on the highway, an ALH in good condition in a car that has been properly maintained, is impacted less notably by weight or CD.

Many years ago, when ALH engines dominated the thread discussions, some people would refer to a car that easily rated high FE as "one of the good ones." I'm a believer in the idea that some ALH engines just do better than others, even when other factors are equal. Our Jetta is slightly more efficient than the Golf, but the Golf has a better avg MPG yearly, because of the driver. This is my evaluation when the majority of other key variables are accounted for- but obviously some variables will remain. True comparisons are really hard- same route, same distance, same time, same fuel, same weather, same wind, same speed, etc. This evaluation only happens when both cars have to head to the same long distance destination, and do so by following one another (but not closely enough to impact FE). Then the cars themselves: Same tires? Same PSI? Engine oil? Transmission oil? Etc. I've been able to match these for our cars for a few, but not all, long distance trips. What about maint and condition? Type and condition of suspension components? Exhaust? Mileage on the body? These are tough to match exactly. What else is drawing power? If both cars follow one another across country, does one have AC on, stereo at full blast, all lights at full power, and three devices plugged into the 12vDC? I can look at my FE records and know which trips required AC just by the MPG numbers. What about weight? The Jetta weighs more than the Golf, but if you're traveling, has the weight been equalized? Do you know what the weight difference between the car really is? Once you've "matched" all of these variables, you're left with a host of difficult variables: Has the car been modded? Age, condition, and type of nozzles? Tuning modified? Owners will claim FE changes due to mods, but it's often very difficult to be exact about the impact of modifications unless you establish a base line, and then track the changes over a significant number of miles and conditions (which many owners here will do).

Lastly you have the driver: Driving style is key for FE, and very hard to compare across platforms, which means you need the same driver with a fleet of different cars. Luckily, Fred's has a bunch of those. Even with the same driver, conditions change from day to day, so unless the same driver, runs the same route, with different cars on the same day, we introduce variables that make comparisons difficult. Of course, these variables are smoothed by logging hundreds of thousands of miles over the last decade, so we do in fact get results that are reasonably accurate, even if the precise variable is difficult to pinpoint, along with the extent of its impact on FE.

So, with our cars, when I've accounted for most of the variables, what do I find? On the same long distance trip, cars following each other, the Jetta does better by a just a bit. Is it CD? Well, I've also found that, even on the highway, same long distance follow-each-other trip, the car that I drive does better for FE. The Golf has a better overall lifetime MPG number b/c I drive it more, but under the same circumstances, I can get better hwy FE with the Jetta. It's tempting to just say that a tiny CD difference between the two is being seen on the hwy, but the numbers reveal my right foot ends up being the final factor.
 
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turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
." I'm a believer in the idea that some ALH engines just do better than others, even when other factors are equal. .
I agree, some threads on here no matter how they drive, or what they've done, some just can't break 30+ mpg, 5 speed where others can drive like you stole it and get 50. :eek:
 

SaxmanKana

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Location
Leavittsburg, Ohio
TDI
Dweisel's Diesel, 2000 Blue Beetle 5 speed
hskrdu,

That was wonderful piece of VW TDI ALH liturature. You answered all of my questions & concerns perfectly! Now all I need is a nice 5 speed vehicle, you showed me the light & enlightend my days!

Thanks for your time & patience,
Dave:D
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
Dave, happy to help. Be sure to post pics and update us when you have your TDI!

BTW, my Golf came from Ohio (Loveland). When I was finally ready to go from my 2.0 gas Golf to a TDI in late 2003, there were only (3) ALH TDI Golf GLS's with 4 doors & 5 speed (with all options) east of the Rocky Mtns (if you believe the dealer database, which back then could be searched as a whole). There was one outside of Boston, one in Wisconsin?, and one in Ohio. The Mk IV BEW's were soon to be arriving, but I had researched the new engine and wanted an ALH. We drove from Annapolis to Loveland to bring it home. Check out my TCO thread, you may find some interesting info on costs of ownership, as well as fuel economy (plus some cool pix).

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=400753
 

SFHGolfTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
Highway? What is that?
Those that I averaged over 50 in were decades ago and jobs ago. The commute was a suburban lemming crawl at 35 to 45 mph for 35 miles. There were few, if any, stops, no passing for the entire trip, single lane. The speed was just fast enough to permit 5th gear and the lack of acceleration meant that once in 5th, it stayed there.
I also had a lot of business travel and that was on the highway. The B4 Passats I had just "felt right" to me at 55 to 60 so I seldom drove over that even on the interstates.

Since then I've been in the B5.5 and A4 and those "feel right" at 70 mph. Also my commute is down to 10 miles. Those 50 mpg days are over.
Lug_Nut, thank you for a clear, honest answer. A few outliers on this forum sometimes give me the sense that I should be able to get 50+ driving 75+ (that has happened once though!) on the highway. I rarely, if ever, had the kinds of driving conditions you describe.
 

SFHGolfTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
Shady! You gotta cone visit me on the east coast sometime. I40 to I70 at 68mph, I bet you'll get 55mpg!
:) Haha. Thanks for the invite, Steve. That's a long drive to prove something to myself! I'll keep your offer in mind.
 

TdiRN

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
FL
TDI
2002 VW Jetta, 5 speed, 400k milesish
I'm just curious with you guys getting over 50 mpg...have you turned down the injection pump?
 

Rembrant

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Location
Canada's Ocean Playground
TDI
2013 Golf TDI DSG
I'm just curious with you guys getting over 50 mpg...have you turned down the injection pump?
If by "turned down" you're referring to the IQ adjustment, then there may not be a consistent answer to that one. I think you'll see that number all over the place. I have mine set around 3.2/3.4 iirc. That's with DLC520 injectors, Inj timing set to the top of the graph, and a couple degrees advance via adaptation. These settings were mostly recommended by DBW, and my little Golf appears to like them the best with regards to MPG.

I've tested mine at various settings and it seems to work it's very best at the above numbers.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
I'm just curious with you guys getting over 50 mpg...have you turned down the injection pump?
The engines in both our TDIs are stock, no changes or mods to the pump, injectors, mapping, etc.

Over 50mpg for either car is simply summer fuel, highway trip, tires over 35 psi, and keeping the avg speed down.
 
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