I just don't understand

bimmerjoe · Jan 13, 2016

Hello, tdi team!

My name it joe and I'm new to the tdi club but not new to the browsing!!.
I am an experienced user of mustang and BMW forums so I understand the use of the "search" button lol..

My few questions if I may,

I cannot understand how anyone gets such great fuel economy out of their jettas? I have owned 2 tdis myself ( 2002, and current 2009) got my mom a 2012 tdi and my wife a 2011...
We all get the same fuel economy.. My 2002 I averaged 800-850 km per tank of fuel using the vent method. But my 09 I get 750km per tank... It is a Manuel, I drive 75% highway and I average 100- 120 kmph. The car is completely stock with 100,000kms on the clock and I purchased it with 60,000kms. Since new best tank I've ever achieved was 850 and that was 110kmph driving straight hwy to new York. (I'm from toronto Canada)... Regular oil changes done at the dealership, fuel filter changes done on time, tire pressure always on point and I don't drag a moose in my back seat ( cars empty)...
I keep reading about people cracking 1000kms and my brain wants to explode!!!

I do want to make mild changes to the engine to achieve better fuel economy and when I'm missing my mustang have the performance. I do not want to change my turbo but minor bolt on
s would do for me. Malone tune? Injectors?

Who can speak my language and help me to better understand..!

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 13, 2016

I think you need to work on how you drive. I have no idea what it is, but you're doing something that is negatively affecting your FE. I don't think it's speed, as even at 120 kph you should be able to get close to 1000 km out of your '09, and a properly vented '02 should have provided 1000-1200.

I'm not talking about hypermiling, but you're doing something that's taking a big hit. I drive pretty fast (75-85 MPH highway), don't hesitate to run the engine to 3500 RPM frequently in lower gears, but still see over 700 miles on every fill, except ones that are all short trips in winter. I think it's largely about technique. And not using brakes.

spheniscus · Jan 13, 2016

To get a sense of typical driver experience, check out Fuelly.com and search year make and model to view the fuel economy experienced by a mixed sample of those who use the site to track mileage.
I don't drive my 2011 Sportwagen especially hard and in mixed driving over 90,000+ miles have averaged a little shy of 40mpg, or about 550 miles on a tank. Economy improved over the first 60,000 or so miles and has been relatively stable since. These numbers are a little better than the 37 mpg average reported by 800+ drivers logging in with Fuelly.
My best tank was a little over 47 mpg.

hybridkiller · Jan 13, 2016

IndigoBlueWagon said:
I think it's largely about technique. And not using brakes.

Bingo - assuming no mechanical issues, driving style can have a huge effect on average FE - and it's usually the thing that's most overlooked by the "how-come-I-don't-get-50mpg" crowd.

Thmastr · Jan 13, 2016

I get about 40mpg and usually pump at the 530 to 560 mile mark. 560mi is 901 km. My driving is primarily highway and small country roads, speeds mostly in 60mph (100kph) and up. I manage to spin wheels every once in a while and I have the pedal all the way to the floor when I merge on to the freeway. My fuelly account spans all fuel ups since new 85k miles ago.

I run 41psi on my tires and that seems to be the better pressure for my driving and maximized fuel economy on my tires. I try not to use the brakes as all the kinetic energy gets transferred on to heat energy, but that said I don't drive like a grandma.

I try to get good fuel economy but also must have fun while I drive.

bimmerjoe · Jan 13, 2016

I've tried changing uo my driving style over the course of dozens of tanks of gas from going like hell on one tank (between 7-750kms) to moderate driving (always between 740-760) to straight granny driving worried people are going to honk on take off( 800-820)...
I put she'll regular and I'll switch it up here and there to other gas stations. But always generally 750 is my magic number. I just started to track on fuelly a week ago so well see what happens...

bimmerjoe · Jan 13, 2016

hybridkiller said:
Bingo - assuming no mechanical issues, driving style can have a huge effect on average FE - and it's usually the thing that's most overlooked by the "how-come-I-don't-get-50mpg" crowd.

You have a 2.0 tdi guide me on your driving habits if you may..

I take off quite normal and my shifts are always between 2-3k rpm and I'm in 6th gear by 80 kmh

Mike in Anchorage · Jan 13, 2016

I disagree with all of the other posts. They are from south of you, Boston being a unique entity. Your fuel, like ours, has LOTS of anti-gel additives that affect fuel economy more than any single or pair of other attributes you can throw at the car. A quick search will show you what the gel point is for fuel in Ontario for each month. In the US, it's on a state by state basis. As you can guess, Alaska has pretty intense requirements to keep the fuel from gelling.

Also the air temp your motor sucks in to run makes a difference. Have you tried blocking your radiator during the winter? You can be so frugal as to insert a cut up piece of cardboard behind the grille. You may get a warning about intercooler temps off the turbo, but you're not going to hurt the car if the outdoor air temp is below 10°C or so.

I also get about the same economy as you, and it fluctuates dramatically from season to season with the fuel gel additives. Keep driving and enjoying. If you really want better economy after the "dieselgate" [gawd I hate that term] fiasco settles down, you can have a tune or a chip done, which will improve both performance and economy.

Good luck. Have fun with the cars.

PS. On Fuelly, I'm "CyclistDude" and the car's name is Ruby.

fruitcakesa · Jan 14, 2016

Dragging brakes?

RebelTDI · Jan 14, 2016

All the posts above make valid points. You can't compare yourself to everyone, just other TDI drivers in your area/climate. Cold temps, city driving with lots of braking/acceleration, short trips are all mpg killers. Unless, your numbers are well below others in your area, don't stress. It takes very specific driving conditions to get those 50 mpg results in a 2009.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 14, 2016

Winter versus summer fuel is a consideration, but I don't think there's that much variation in fuel between, say, Boston and Ontario. I've driven from Boston to Detroit in January through Canada and not seen any significant variation in FE after filling in Ontario. I typically see about a 10% drop in FE in winter versus summer. Some of it is fuel, some is additional energy consumed to warm up the car, and of course winter tires have more rolling resistance than summer tires.

Even in the dead of winter I could see FE in the high 30s in short trip driving in my '12 Golf. That would net 550 miles per tank or so.

hybridkiller · Jan 14, 2016

bimmerjoe said:
You have a 2.0 tdi guide me on your driving habits if you may..
I take off quite normal and my shifts are always between 2-3k rpm and I'm in 6th gear by 80 kmh

Everyone tends to focus on acceleration, but as IBW alluded to, if you can drive so that the least amount of braking is required it will make way more of a difference than gentle acceleration. This means paying attention to what's going on 100-200 yards ahead of you. As soon as you see that you are going to have to stop (or slow down) ahead, get off the go-pedal and coast. Sounds obvious but almost no one on the road does this. I have people flying by me constantly approaching a red light or stop sign, only to roll up behind them or right next to them 5-10 seconds later. That extra fuel they're burning adds up (not to mention the additional wear on pads/rotors).

The same thing applies when you are slowing down to make a turn, approaching an exit ramp, coming up on slower moving traffic etc.

Sleet · Jan 14, 2016

What is the condition of your thermostat? (and no don't look at the gauge in the cluster) get something that can read the thermostat from the ECU.

My dad changed a few thermostats in 3 of the ALH's they own - apparently my mom and sisters didn't say that the temp gauges weren't going up all the way. Same driving styles after the change and they all bumped up at least 3-4 MPG. I think the 2000 new beetle got 5 MPG improvement (that car didn't have a temp gauge at all in the cluster so it was really bad)

logdrum · Jan 16, 2016

Thermostats plays a role. As long as I dont go below 38mpg I stopped worrying since diesel is now $1.71 per US gallon at the gas station nearest me it is a wash I think

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

man02195 · Jan 20, 2016

I can get 50+ mpg on a tank, but only on long highway trips.
If the trip is 10-20 miles, the average doesn't get above 45mpg

Using the MFI display as I drove, I recorded the following
I filled up last night, and headed out on the highway
When i reached the highway, it read 17.6mpg
Driving on a relatively flat section of I-65, averaging 67mph
After 15 miles, it read 46.0mpg
After 30 miles, it read 57.2mpg
After 180 miles, it had settled down to 55.7mpg (temp had dropped to 17F)

The MFI display is normally 2-3mpg favorable, so this tank will probably be around 52mpg when I fill up on Thursday

Airbus320 · Jan 20, 2016

I am from the Toronto area also and range from 850-1000 in the summer 4.7 l/100-5.5 l/100 to 700-850 in the winter 5.8-6.2 l/100. City to highway makes a huge difference especially in the winter, I also find the head winds we get around here with the winter fronts going through kill my mileage, I got home last night with a 6.5 l/100.

Brad T

kjclow · Jan 20, 2016

spheniscus said:
To get a sense of typical driver experience, check out Fuelly.com and search year make and model to view the fuel economy experienced by a mixed sample of those who use the site to track mileage.
I don't drive my 2011 Sportwagen especially hard and in mixed driving over 90,000+ miles have averaged a little shy of 40mpg, or about 550 miles on a tank. Economy improved over the first 60,000 or so miles and has been relatively stable since. These numbers are a little better than the 37 mpg average reported by 800+ drivers logging in with Fuelly.
My best tank was a little over 47 mpg.

I will second these numbers, except that I have the dsg.

patbob · Jan 21, 2016

How about a stupid observation, the OP is reporting how many kms they go on a tankfull. Do they run it almost dry before refilling? If not, then they'll get significantly less kms per tankful.

John_Nutt · Jan 26, 2016

This winter I have noticed a significant difference in f.e. When the I do mostly city driving but my highway mpg is almost the same. I am getting 9.5 l/100km all city compared to 7.5 all city in the summer. This is my First winter with the car. Those are hand calculated numbers.

deejaaa · Jan 26, 2016

I only drove 906 miles on the last tank but averaged 50 mpg. tires play a role in FE also. I hypermile all the time with 98% of my driving on the interstate.

roadlust · Jan 26, 2016

deejaaa said:
I only drove 906 miles on the last tank but averaged 50 mpg. tires play a role in FE also. I hypermile all the time with 98% of my driving on the interstate.

I found your numbers interesting, did the math and according to the numbers you put 18.1 gallons in your tank. Is that possible?

When I went over 900mi in my MKIV I got over 60mpg.

deejaaa · Jan 27, 2016

roadlust said:
I found your numbers interesting, did the math and according to the numbers you put 18.1 gallons in your tank. Is that possible?

When I went over 900mi in my MKIV I got over 60mpg.

i missed the correct keypad number, i meant 59 mpg.

UhOh · Jan 28, 2016

I'd be interested in seeing what folks are getting for average speed (for a given tankful). My car just rung up 50.2 mpg with an average speed of 40.8 mph. The wife's car was near 48 mpg and it averaged a flat 40 mpg: I also suspect the mpgs were down a bit due to filling more than usual (pump was really slow that day and I still forced more fuel in after it had clicked off- I suspect that I was very full when it first clicked off).

deejaaa · Jan 29, 2016

i can add 2-3 gallons more on the first click going full blast. slower fills is about 1-2. i fill until i see fuel sitting at the edge.

Marymacmanaway · Jan 29, 2016

Have a 2014 Jetta TDI Sportswagen. I average 41 mpg. Best I ever got was all freeway to Virginia from Columbus, Oh at 51 mpg. Worst I got was 34 mpg in summer in the city with the ac on. I don't rely on the dash info but fill up and divide the driven miles by gallons put back in. Kinda like weighing yourself at home versus the five extra pounds at the Dr.'s office. Here is my current situation.....I'm only averaging 26 to 28 mpg. I'm in Columbus, Oh and the dealer told me because it is winter. Last year in 20 below zero wind chill and very windy I drove all freeway and still got 41 mpg. The drop in fuel mileage happened a
month ago when I went to the dealer for them to replace a fan. After having my car for 3 hours they told me they had the wrong fan and would have to come back. As soon as I drove off the lot I got average consumption readings in the 20's and 30'at best. A number 4 has never shown it's pretty little head. I had it back in to the dealer and sent my husband this time as it crossed my mind that perhaps being female and petite and middle aged that they may have tampered with the computer perhaps testing for a solution without telling me. My husband was at the dealers most of the day and they checked brakes and basically everything then told us there was nothing more they could do. A woman in town has the same car. We filled up at the freeway and went 40 miles up I 71 then 40 back. The best I got was 33 mpg and she got 45 mpg. Same cars, same year, same style, neither of us have a big ass so it's not the driver.

TDI_FNG · Jan 30, 2016

Sleet said:
What is the condition of your thermostat? (and no don't look at the gauge in the cluster) get something that can read the thermostat from the ECU.

My dad changed a few thermostats in 3 of the ALH's they own - apparently my mom and sisters didn't say that the temp gauges weren't going up all the way. Same driving styles after the change and they all bumped up at least 3-4 MPG. I think the 2000 new beetle got 5 MPG improvement (that car didn't have a temp gauge at all in the cluster so it was really bad)

+1 on the thermostat. Mine was constantly running at 170C. After replacement I got 3-4 mpg boost. For the record, I drive very "spirited".

UhOh · Jan 31, 2016

Marymacmanaway said:
Have a 2014 Jetta TDI Sportswagen. I average 41 mpg. Best I ever got was all freeway to Virginia from Columbus, Oh at 51 mpg. Worst I got was 34 mpg in summer in the city with the ac on. I don't rely on the dash info but fill up and divide the driven miles by gallons put back in. Kinda like weighing yourself at home versus the five extra pounds at the Dr.'s office. Here is my current situation.....I'm only averaging 26 to 28 mpg. I'm in Columbus, Oh and the dealer told me because it is winter. Last year in 20 below zero wind chill and very windy I drove all freeway and still got 41 mpg. The drop in fuel mileage happened a
month ago when I went to the dealer for them to replace a fan. After having my car for 3 hours they told me they had the wrong fan and would have to come back. As soon as I drove off the lot I got average consumption readings in the 20's and 30'at best. A number 4 has never shown it's pretty little head. I had it back in to the dealer and sent my husband this time as it crossed my mind that perhaps being female and petite and middle aged that they may have tampered with the computer perhaps testing for a solution without telling me. My husband was at the dealers most of the day and they checked brakes and basically everything then told us there was nothing more they could do. A woman in town has the same car. We filled up at the freeway and went 40 miles up I 71 then 40 back. The best I got was 33 mpg and she got 45 mpg. Same cars, same year, same style, neither of us have a big ass so it's not the driver.

Do you know whether your friend's car has been in to the dealer in the last year or so?

Does anyone know whether VCDS (or other) can detect any programming changes that VAG dealers could make?

I was kind of wondering with all that cold weather whether there could be some fuel gelling issues, but that would cause a restriction in fuel (your issue is that it's consuming more fuel).

Are you hand-calculating numbers or are you only going by the car's display?

jhinsc · Feb 4, 2016

From that far north, how long do you spend warming up your TDI before driving? You don't need more than about 30 sec or so in the summer, but in winter, do you let it run for a couple min or longer? That's a big factor for me - if I let it idle for a more than a min, I won't hit 40 mpg or higher until I'm halfway thru my commute. Grill blocks will help cut drag and help your TDI warm-up faster and stay warm while driving. It might have been mentioned, but how about your thermostat - working properly?

SaxmanKana · Feb 7, 2016

spheniscus said:
To get a sense of typical driver experience, check out Fuelly.com and search year make and model to view the fuel economy experienced by a mixed sample of those who use the site to track mileage.
I don't drive my 2011 Sportwagen especially hard and in mixed driving over 90,000+ miles have averaged a little shy of 40mpg, or about 550 miles on a tank. Economy improved over the first 60,000 or so miles and has been relatively stable since. These numbers are a little better than the 37 mpg average reported by 800+ drivers logging in with Fuelly.
My best tank was a little over 47 mpg.

Great tip, I want the differences in FE between models & years!

Thanks,
Dave

andyrooski17 · Feb 14, 2016

UhOh said:
I'd be interested in seeing what folks are getting for average speed (for a given tankful). My car just rung up 50.2 mpg with an average speed of 40.8 mph. The wife's car was near 48 mpg and it averaged a flat 40 mpg: I also suspect the mpgs were down a bit due to filling more than usual (pump was really slow that day and I still forced more fuel in after it had clicked off- I suspect that I was very full when it first clicked off).

I track mpg vs. avg speed for tanks. Check this post out:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4915118&postcount=523

I just don't understand

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