Automatic blues

Ok so my wife finds the "perfect" TDI for her, only problem is it's a stinking automatic. Are the auto trannies pretty decent on TDI's? I'm assuming there isn't much pep stock with and auto and it would feel a tad sluggish, please correct me if i'm wrong. And I forget what the MPG hit is with auto as compared to 5speed. Any tips on what I should do as far as stearing her away or if it's a good idea? Also the TB change is 40k instead of 60k correct?

Have 167,000 on mine, mileage is around 40-42 with 90 percent highway, not sluggish. I use the 80,000 mile belt on mine, so I plan on at least 60,000 to 80,000 on each belt. Of course mine is out of warranty now, not that it mattered when it wasn't.

The automatic is so much better with the TDI that VW will only be offering an automatic for the new Passat TDI.
Seriously, the automatic is very good with TDI. I've owned both and the automatic is my choice. My experience with MPG was about 5-7 mpg less than manual. The manual is superior to the auto for mpg no doubt about it. Timing belt change is 40K on 2001 and earlier and 80K or 100K miles on 2002 and 2003. On a 2001 or earlier you can install a 80K belt at the first timing belt change.
When I first test drove an automatic TDI I thought it was slow as a slug. The auto has an adaptive logic program on it and you have to teach it to drive fast. After driving one at a GTG I was stunned at how good the auto was and the difference between the one I test drove.
Most importantly is to please your wife so get her the automatic she wants. Your darn lucky you have a wife that recognizes the greatness of a TDI.

The automatic is so much better with the TDI that VW will only be offering an automatic for the new Passat TDI.

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i'd prefer a transmission that can last the life of my car, which an automatic cannot.

i'd prefer a transmission that can last the life of my car, which an automatic cannot.

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This is conjecture. How long will the automatic last? 200,000, 300,000 miles. I know that clutches are subject to failure. I do not want to drive a car past 200,000 anyway.
Automatic or manual? Personal preference and both are good choices on TDI.

I also got a great deal on a used auto and went for it. I drove both and frankly the difference wasn't that great. I suppose if you did a lot of two-laner rally driving it would really matter, but 95% of my driving is highway. Without throwing wads of cash at modifiying the engine and suspension, it's hardly a sports car anyway. The Auto NEVER needs to downshift on the highway, even for blasting around someone. The powerband is great. I've got a VASB on mine for a little extra punch, but it was adequate in stock form as well. Takes a little while for everyone (you and the tranny) to learn each others habits. I'm averaging around 43mpg so that's the only downside if you can call it that. This is the first 4cyl engine I can stomach driving so 43mpg is phenominal to me.

If you wife feels it has enough power, then what's the problem?

The TDI Automatic is not a bad unit. The power is always "on". This is different from the manual tranny in which you must break the power band in order to shift. I own a manual, and have driven (briefly) an automatic TDI.

I am an automatic hater, but I have driven worse than the TDI auto. I'm hoping for VW to start using the CVT unit from the Audi A4 3.0 in the TDI line.

CVT tranny + TDI engine = powertrain heaven

I recently test drove an auto and I have to say the auto is more peppy than I thought it would be. Auto TDIs have more engine noise though. They say it's because of a higher injector nozzle pressure on the auto (emission control of some kind).

-P

it's not conjecture. automatic transmissions are designed in such a way that there are components which must and will wear out. have you ever seen an automatic transmission? they're complex to the point where they're hard just to understand! there's a lot going on in there, and a lot more room for failure. and when they do fail, they're not very serviceable - i think of them as disposable transmissions. it's rare for a vw auto tranny to make it much past 140k, in my experience.

a manual transmission, on the other hand, is much simpler, and serviceable. the clutch is the most common "wear out" component, and driven properly can last a very very long time. and when it is time to replace the clutch, it's a LOT cheaper than a new automatic transmission.

autos are very nice, and convenient, and easy, but they have very significant mechanical disadvantages when compared to their manual cousins.

it's not conjecture. automatic transmissions are designed in such a way that there are components which must and will wear out. have you ever seen an automatic transmission? they're complex to the point where they're hard just to understand! there's a lot going on in there, and a lot more room for failure. and when they do fail, they're not very serviceable - i think of them as disposable transmissions. it's rare for a vw auto tranny to make it much past 140k, in my experience.

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While there are some autos that are not good the auto in the TDI is a nice unit. It will hunt some but that seems to have become the norm with the computer controlled autos of today.

VW autos not lasting, heh. We'll all I can say is I have found several old "autostick" beetles over the last few years that are still going strong. it's a far older, and simpler, design but we really don't know how long these trannies will last.

I love a stick and would have preferred one but the auto is a nice tranny. Besides my auto TDI will take out a 2.0 Jetta with the manual any day. The funny thing is they sell more of those.

Can't imagine why anyone needs an auto transmission on a diesel. The torque band is so flat that the gears overlap. My 6 speed has 3rd, 4th , and 5th as fastest, faster and fast. The clutch is the only bit that could wear out. A manual clutch can be changed by anybody with the right tools. Have you seen the hydraulic brake band controls in a conventional auto? Complex is not the word, and ther is nothng the average owner can do to service these units.

My mother's Ford Estate has a 4 speed auto box and here it works well. It is a gasser and needs to change up and down like a violin.

Our local bus company has Volvo diesel engines/transmissions that are probably best suited to urban stop/start. They have a manually controlled gearbox but no clutch - they use a torque converter. I notice the drivers tend to use 2nd most of the time for the range "Stop/Start" in traffic to up to 30mph when they can.

it's not conjecture. automatic transmissions are designed in such a way that there are components which must and will wear out. have you ever seen an automatic transmission? they're complex to the point where they're hard just to understand! there's a lot going on in there, and a lot more room for failure. and when they do fail, they're not very serviceable - i think of them as disposable transmissions. it's rare for a vw auto tranny to make it much past 140k, in my experience.

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NOT TRUE at all.

Ever see a TH400 tranny that has ever been worked on except for possibly seals. Many of these units are still performing well with more than 40 years service!

As far as the TDIs are concerned, has anyone had to have one overhauled yet?

Concerning that there are several TDI automatics that are running around with more that an extra (additional) 100 ft/lb of torque and are handling that extra power without any modifying at all, do you know of any standard trannies (five speeds) here in N A that can do that without having a clutch upgrade?

And as far as the TDI automatics are concerned, the only real hit one takes is the one to fuel economy.

As far as performance is concerned, add larger injectors and a chip and even you will be surprised as have many a sad rice-rocket driver discovered!

Can't imagine why anyone needs an auto transmission on a diesel.

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Because some of us have never driven a stick? It might be easier to learn on a TDI, but I wasn't going to take my chances.

As for autos not lasting, I drove my Saturn with an auto for 172k miles, and not one problem with the transmission.

Jason

And as far as the TDI automatics are concerned, the only real hit one takes is the one to fuel economy.

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I'm not even convinced that's entirely true. With my automatic on some true highway driving (as in 4.5 hours at a constant 70mph) I routinely get 48+ MPG.

I don't forsee my auto tranny dying on me for many years.

Auto transmissions don't last? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!

Read this reliability chief:
Chrysler fwd minivan: tranny upgraded for additional cooling (well known design flaw) Over 150K miles currently, still running GREAT.
Ford AOD transmissions (3 cars, all Lincolns, 2 Mark VII, 1 Town Car) 160K, VII totaled in wreck. 120K, VII still running strong, original engine too. 250K!!! Towncar parted out, transmission installed into Ford Country Squire (Station wagon, same 302 engine) STILL GOING STRONG at OVER 300K MILES!!!!

TH400 3-spd auto in a super-duty application, 454 engine 6 ton RV: 180K miles, ORIGINAL TRANNY going strong.
Jeep 4x4 GC, 120K, still running strong.

As you can see, I have a bit of experience with high mileage engines. So your comments about a manual being "better" for long-term usage are purely bull. An auto will last longer than the engine it is mated to, provided 2 things happen: You NEVER exceed the transmissions rated input power. This is not a big deal on most production cars. Unless you are a tuner and a racer, your engine is FAR below the rated torque of the auto behind it. They are designed that way.

Second, MOST IMPORTANT, and the usual culprit in a tranny failure: The tranny was allowed to overheat, the fluid turned to crap, and the bands disintegrated and ground up the clutches. Why does this happen? Because GM decided back in the 50s that money could be saved by removing all the gauges that the dumbest driver would never understand, and removed the tranny fluid temp gauge. The others followed. GM also saved money by putting the tranny cooler inside a hotdog-sized bottle INSIDE your radiator, instead of giving it it's own radiator grille. So when your engine overheats, you are actually damaging your transmission LONG before that little needle gets to the "H" on the gauge. Starting at about 220*F, transmission fluid thins severely, and damage can start to build. Especially if you are climbing hills or towing, it can happen at a lower temperature.

Put an aux cooler on your tranny, and a gauge. Keep the tranny filled with Mercon V full synthetic or ATF+3 full synth, and your tranny will thank you with a lifespan longer than your TDI engine.

--Jim

fascinating. i stand corrected.

however, not all manual tranmissions require new clutches when the engine has been tuned. just the newer ones.

Automatics are BORING to drive. I prefer to have CONTROL over when the car shifts. I can't stand the automatic downshift when you nail it in a corner......talk about dangerous! A 5spd sits in a corner, an automatic just sucks. Plus I like a 5spd in traffic.....huh?? Depending on how fast the traffic is moving(or not), you just pick a gear that matches that speed and let her go.

Manuals are INIFINITELY better in snow, too.

I could go on and on and on, but our automatic brothers wouldn't understand anyway. They don't like to drive....for them drivng is a chore.

Yet another slam post by the good dr. First you slam folks in CA, then gays, and now folks who drive auto trannys. We're all here because of our interest in TDIs. It seems like you're here to make war with everyone. You, my friend, have a problem...

I could go on and on and on, but our automatic brothers wouldn't understand anyway. They don't like to drive....for them drivng is a chore.

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OH yeah??? Well five speeds are for sissys!!

My Ram diesel has six gears to row through, now that's fun

I could go on and on and on, but our automatic brothers wouldn't understand anyway. They don't like to drive....for them drivng is a chore.

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I enjoy driving and a manual transmission is not required.
A manual transmission does not equal driver skill or driving enjoyment. For me driving a manual is a painful option due to previous dislocation of right elbow.

drbillz- your earlier post eqating "driving" with a manual transmission is hackneyed and lacking respect. The false statement that an auto is dangerous in a corner, implicit statement that automatics perform poorly in slippery conditions only reveal your lack of comprehension of technique in driving an automatic transmission.

Everybody gets their kicks from driving different transmissions. I personally hate automatics for every day street legal "spirited" driving, although sticks can sometimes be a pain in inner city traffic. For track/autocross, a stick is prefered. But for drag racing, nothing beats an auto. "Shift without lift" and custom torque converters for launch are big reasons for having an auto for drag racing. In the end, (repeat after me) "It's all a matter of opinion."

Brendan

I could go on and on and on, but our automatic brothers wouldn't understand anyway. They don't like to drive....for them drivng is a chore.

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Really, I prefer to have a manual but it is the drivers in this area that forces me to hurry up at the traffic lights. I may kill the engine on the first gear. I used to drive a gasser manual during high school and college years. My first TDI was a manual but I rear-ended a number of times if I take my casual time to proceed from a stop. Those that rear-ended are driving a truck. Probably couldn't see my third brake light. So I was lucky enough to have it bought back (a lemon) Now I drive a auto tranny. I don't feel any different other than I can punch it at the light and kick the guy-next-to-me's butt. If I still had the manual, I won't be able to do it. I know everyone here said it is really easy to learn. Right, only if the driver behind me would have a little tiny bit more patient to allow me to proceed from a stop. Once I get the car moving and the clutch out, I drive hard. Oh well, those days are gone.

Listen up guys I will put about 42 years of driving experiance on you.

My wife learned to drive on 62 4spd Corvair and I learned to drive on '53 Ford automatic. My wife prefers to drive an auto, while I am partial to manual trans. The auto trans lasted 140k miles in the '53 before dad got rid of car. The '54 Ford we had went through abour 5 clutches in 170,000 miles. I had two sisters that drove that car then I drove it my senior year in high school. I went through 1 clutch, but that was cause by leaking rear main seal.

Longitivty for manuals is touted here by some, others say automatic. Well I hate to beat up on both sides here, but proper maintained and driven the automatic will generally go longer with out a failure. However that failure is a normal worn out clutch. A friend of mine that owns a local trans repair shop says that auto tranies as a rule last longer and give less problems then manual, but are far more expensive to repair. He stated if it wasn't for manual trans becoming popular again he would probably get out of the business before he starved.

Now my wife only wants an automatic for her sedan, I always wanted a stick for my trucks or hotrods. If I were to trade my NB for new Passat TDI, with that type of car I would want and automatic. If I traded for new sports car, then it would be a stick for me.

In the 30 years the wife and I have been married none of her cars required trans work, my sticks did. $$$$ She put 140,000 miles on one of the cars and 175,000 on another.

The way I like to drive the NB it needs a 5sp to really be fun. However I do very little down shifting (compaired to gasser) running it through the Ozark hills. I love it when rednecks crowd by bumper in those curvy roads and they get to busy to notice I've taken them into a curve too fast for their PU.

I like redneck hunting, I'm going again next week. It's a no limite bag.

I really enjoy driving the wife's automatic Jetta in this nasty ol'
Puget Sound traffic. The Passat has a wimpy 5 speed for sissies, and Moby truck has the manly 6 speed...both are great when you're not in 15 miles of stop and go traffic.
Don't think I'd gripe too much if I got the new Passat and had to settle for a tiptronic. However, the 6 speed in the truck is perfect...1st gear and 4 lo has to be experienced to be believed. Damned thing will idle up the darndest hills.
Rodg

Yeah, I still wish I would have found a 5spd, but I like my automatic well enough. My mileage rarely gets above 40, but apparently there have been ZERO reports of any A4 trannys wearing out with people on this board:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=478273&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

Apparently these are the same auto trannys they put on the VR6's? Plus the engines on automatics have smaller injectors (stock), and larger fuel pumps so stepping up a size to stock manual injectors makes the car good and peppy (=cheap upgrade)!

I really enjoy driving the wife's automatic Jetta in this nasty ol'
Puget Sound traffic. The Passat has a wimpy 5 speed for sissies, and Moby truck has the manly 6 speed...both are great when you're not in 15 miles of stop and go traffic.
Don't think I'd gripe too much if I got the new Passat and had to settle for a tiptronic. However, the 6 speed in the truck is perfect...1st gear and 4 lo has to be experienced to be believed. Damned thing will idle up the darndest hills.
Rodg

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Hey Rodg, we've had our '03 1-ton Ram HO Cummins six-speed now for a month or so but I've only driven it a few times. Usually the trainer is driving it. I'm not sure when you're supposed to use 1st Even with a trailer behind, it seems like a formality. The few times I've had it empty, I never use 1st and usually skip 3rd unless I'm on a hill. Get rolling in second, go to 4th and blast off We had an '01 3/4ton Ram Cummins with the slush-box before this one and I'll never go back to an auto-box for towing. Based on horror stories I couldn't believe our '01 went to 110k miles without grenading, and that's towing about 75% of the time. That was a great truck but this new cummins engine is a beast. And I can actually go through drive-thrus and order without shutting down the engine (gotta get the priorities straight, LOL!)

I'm sorry Califonia sucks also. But there isn't much I can do about it.
Can't believe you are "keeping score". Don't you have a life?.............whomever wrote that above.....See I don't even know your username, nor do I care. Nor will I search out your other posts to see what you've written. Sheesh!

Oh, yeah. I forgot. Sorry I have an opinion. Doubly sorry you can't accept DIVERSE opinons on subjects. It's funny you can't accept that DIVERSE means ALL opinions and not just YOUR'S.

"good Dr." Hmmmm, do YOU have a problem with Doctors? A little PRE-JUDGING are we? In this case, the username is DRbillZ. As you can see the D, R and Z are capitalized. I ride a Suzuki DR-Z400 motorcycle and that is what the name is for.
Doctors are Dr., in case you didn't know.

Maybe it's time we all chilled out a little. Some people like to shift. Some don't. Who cares?

Hey Dr. -

Come on up to northern Virgnina and commute for
an hour in stop and go traffic every day. It's
the only way to discover the love of the automatic.

As for all those people who think they can drive
better in the snow with a stick: I drove a
mid-80s rear-wheel drive Chevy in Colorado and
only got stuck once for about 10 seconds. It's
the DRIVER that's the most important ingredient.
Next, it's the wheels/tires. After that, it's
the driven wheel (front or 4-wheel is better,
generally, than rear wheel). Last is auto or
manual tranny. Last!

Finally:

For all of you auto owners: a little trick that
will save your ass someday, if you would choose
to practice it, that is:

In order to stop in a shorter amount of time
in icy conditions, put the car into neutral.
It's a safe maneuver when the conditions are all
ice and snow. Try it - you'll like it.
If you're already in a skid and you're foot's
hard on the brakes, PUT THE CAR IN NEUTRAL,
and you'll re-gain traction and recover.

Jud.

Automatic transmission = Deal breaker.

I'm a diehard manual transmission driver. People have different preferences and I believe that autos and manuals should always be available for those who want them. I can understand a carmaker's decision to only offer one or the other if a particular car's market is heavily slanted one way or the other. In the case where a particular car is only offered with an automatic tranny, that means it's a car I'll never own, no matter what. For me, a manual transmission is an absolute MUST-HAVE requirement when car shopping. No exceptions.

I learned this about myself the hard way a few years ago when I purchased a gasser SUV with an automatic. I liked the SUV enough that I thought I could live with it being an automatic. NOT TRUE! I traded out of it a few months later because the silky-smooth automatic literally drove me out of it. Great SUV, but wrong transmission for me. I would have kept the vehicle if it had a manual transmission. I found that not matter how well designed an automatic transmission may be, I still end up hating it and wanting a manual transmission. I'm a diehard manual tranny driver and there's no going back to an automatic.

Believe it or not, I actually prefer a manual transmission for crowded stop/go city driving, like in Boston. I prefer it because I'm always in much tighter control of the car at all times compared to an automatic. Given that I'm in much tighter control of the car, I'm also a safer driver as a result. Driving a manual transmission vehicle is second nature to me because I've done it for more than 20 years, so I never think of it as a pain.

I visited Paris France several years ago on company business and found that the majority of the drivers there prefer manuals over automatics. Even the taxi drivers doing stop/go driving all day long were driving manuals. It's the same with me in places like Boston.

I have found that for lots of stop/go driving, it's important that the clutch be well designed and the transmission be easy to shift. Smooth, not grabby, etc., easy operate, not awkward or require lots of muscle. This is part of what makes if fun and not a chore. VW has done a great job in this area compared to other cars. The low-end torque characteristics of the TDI engine make it even easier. I would have no problem doing stop/go driving in Boston all day long in my TDI. I've also never worn out a clutch prematurely or had a transmision problem in more than 20 years of manual tranny driving.

I can live with driving an automatic when I drive a friend or family member's car, a company car, or a rental. However, in any vehicle I own, it absolutely without exception has to have a manual transmission.


~ n1das