06 BRM stalls at idle and rough idle

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Hi everyone...We just did a pretty big job on a customer's 06 Jetta (BRM). PD150 Bosio Nozzles, Billet cam and new lifters, and a tune. We did the cam and lifters because the car had a worn cam and the center of one lifter had popped out (compression has since been checked and is 500psi on all 4 cylinders) and then had the injectors rebuilt shortly after because they were contaminated with bad bio (customer runs B99). Prior to the rebuilt injectors and tune the car ran but was getting poor fuel economy and two of the injector values in field 13 were way off from the other two. There were no issues with a rough idle at this time. Since the injectors and tune the idle bounces around from 740-861. The customer has complained of the car having hard starts (7-8 times to get it started) and the car is stalling at idle, at a light, after its been running for some time. Torsion value has been upped to 3.4 and we have tried to up it more but when we do that it shows 0.0KW. :confused: Each injector is within .02 of each other on field 13 (2.99; -3.01; -2.99; 3.01) and field 23 shows .40-.50 for injectors 1-3 and injector 4 is around .20-.30.
Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated!!! :cool:
 

narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
If you advanced it too much it will be at 0.0. You need to back out some. Means it's out of range.
 

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
i know its super sensitive! the car is coming back in tomorrow. we will have to keep playing with it. any other suggestions others may have would be amazing!! thanks!
 

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
car came back in today so we could try to smooth the idle out
codes on the car were:
Wednesday,15,June,2011,12:44:49:03889
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4 (x64)

Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 03G 906 016 AB HW: 028 101 223 8
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7550
Software Coding: 0050071
Work Shop Code: WSC 66565 257 00032
VCID: 63DB7AE2DBC5
5 Faults Found:

000564 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition)
P0234 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 188072 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 11:19:09

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 3801 /min
Speed: 177.0 km/h
Load: 67.8 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Absolute Pres.: 2080.8 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 2427.6 mbar

000305 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Signal too Low
P0131 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 188101 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 07:02:42

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2331 /min
Speed: 108.0 km/h
Load: 100.0 %
Mass Air / Rev.: 800.0 mg/str
(no units): 0.20
(no units): 0.0
Bin. Bits: 10001001

013112 - Control Circuit for Glow Plug Controller 1: Electrical Malfunction
P3338 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 168 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 10.18 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Temperature: 11.7°C
Bin. Bits: 00010000

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 188222 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 11:39:03

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 819 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.14 V
Bin. Bits: 00001011
Temperature: 66.6°C
Bin. Bits: 01010000

000769 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected
P0301 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 188376 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 23:28:48

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 840 /min
Speed: 6.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 13.98 V
Inj. Quantity: 2.96 mg/str
Temperature: 73.8°C
(no units): 0.0


Readiness: 1 2 0 0 0
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You have an injector problem it looks like. Group 013 is showing the MAX numbers it can (meaning the ECU is trying to smooth the idle but can do no more).

Who "rebuilt" the injectors? Reason I ask is, I have had 2 places say they could do PD injectors, and both places messed them up so bad we had to buy a new (reman) set from Volkswagen.
 

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
PM sent

You have an injector problem it looks like. Group 013 is showing the MAX numbers it can (meaning the ECU is trying to smooth the idle but can do no more).

Who "rebuilt" the injectors? Reason I ask is, I have had 2 places say they could do PD injectors, and both places messed them up so bad we had to buy a new (reman) set from Volkswagen.
 

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Fields 4...13...23

Wednesday,15,June,2011,12:51:03:03889,VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4 (x64),Data version: 20110418
03G 906 016 AB,,R4 1.9L EDC G000SG 7550,

,Group A:,'004,,,,Group B:,'013,,,,Group C:,'023
,,Engine Speed,Injection Start,Injection Duration,Torsion Value,,Injection Quantity,Injection Quantity,Injection Quantity,Injection Quantity,,Switch Time Deviat.,Switch Time Deviat.,Switch Time Deviat.,Switch Time Deviat.
,TIME,(G28),(specified),(specified),,TIME,Deviation Cyl. 1,Deviation Cyl. 2,Deviation Cyl. 3,Deviation Cyl. 4,TIME,Cylinder 1,Cylinder 2,Cylinder 3,Cylinder 4
Marker,STAMP, /min, °BTDC,°KW,°KW,STAMP, mg/str, mg/str, mg/str, mg/str,STAMP,,,,
,0.34,819,7.4,13.3,3.4,0.51,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,0.16,-42.0,-50.0,-50.0,-28.0
,0.85,861,4.0,10.7,3.4,1.02,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,0.67,-44.0,-49.0,-54.0,-25.0
,1.37,819,7.8,10.7,3.4,1.54,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,1.19,-40.0,-48.0,-51.0,-30.0
,1.88,840,5.6,10.7,3.4,2.05,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,1.71,-44.0,-50.0,-50.0,-30.0
,2.39,798,8.7,10.7,3.4,2.56,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,2.22,-44.0,-45.0,-53.0,-29.0
,2.91,819,8.1,13.8,3.4,3.08,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,2.74,-40.0,-51.0,-49.0,-31.0
,3.42,861,7.4,13.3,3.4,3.59,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,3.25,-45.0,-47.0,-49.0,-28.0
,3.94,819,7.4,13.3,3.4,4.11,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,3.77,-42.0,-47.0,-49.0,-29.0
,4.45,861,3.7,10.7,3.4,4.62,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,4.28,-46.0,-49.0,-48.0,-26.0
,4.97,819,7.8,10.7,3.4,5.14,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,4.80,-43.0,-47.0,-51.0,-27.0
,5.48,840,5.6,10.7,3.4,5.65,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,5.31,-42.0,-47.0,-49.0,-30.0
,6.00,819,8.1,10.7,3.4,6.17,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,5.83,-45.0,-48.0,-52.0,-26.0
,6.51,819,7.8,13.8,3.4,6.69,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,6.34,-41.0,-48.0,-50.0,-28.0
,7.03,819,7.4,12.8,3.4,7.20,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,6.85,-42.0,-49.0,-46.0,-25.0
,7.54,819,8.1,13.3,3.4,7.71,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,7.37,-42.0,-49.0,-54.0,-26.0
,8.06,861,3.7,12.8,3.4,8.23,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,7.88,-41.0,-48.0,-47.0,-29.0
,8.57,819,7.8,10.7,3.4,8.74,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,8.40,-43.0,-47.0,-52.0,-27.0
,9.09,861,4.0,10.7,3.4,9.26,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,8.91,-42.0,-47.0,-51.0,-30.0
,9.60,798,9.6,11.2,3.4,9.77,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,9.43,-44.0,-51.0,-47.0,-29.0
,10.12,840,5.0,10.7,3.4,10.28,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,9.94,-42.0,-47.0,-51.0,-28.0
,10.63,819,6.5,12.8,3.4,10.80,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,10.46,-38.0,-51.0,-51.0,-31.0
,11.15,819,7.8,13.8,3.4,11.32,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,10.97,-41.0,-47.0,-52.0,-27.0
,11.66,861,4.0,12.8,3.4,11.83,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,11.49,-39.0,-48.0,-55.0,-27.0
,12.17,819,7.8,13.3,3.4,12.35,2.99,-3.01,-3.01,2.99,12.00,-42.0,-50.0,-49.0,-29.0
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The max amount the injector balance number can be off is about 3.00 +/-. You have two at or near that +, and two at or near that -, which means the ECU simply cannot get the IQ matched to make the engine run smoothly.

If the valve train is good, the compression is good, then the only thing left is the injectors themselves.

A healthy PD will have those numbers under one whole number +/-, and even if you have one cylinder at +/- 1.50 or so from the others it would not cause a rough idle as it is still well within the ECU's tolerance of control.
 

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
is that the case even with bosio pd150 nozzles and a tune? shouldn't the tune be able to tell the ecu to get the iq matched?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
That has nothing to do with this. You have an injector imbalance problem, the tune has nothing to do with +/- injector balance numbers.

And I never really understood why anyone would change stock injectors on a BRM. That engine is capable of making in excess of 160hp with software along, there is PLENTY of extra fueling available.

In your case, the ECU is TRYING to get the idle numbers matched, and CAN'T, because the injectors are so F'd up.
 
Last edited:

krystlelite81

TDIGUY Associate Vendor
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
This customer runs B99 and he had fuel contamination in the injectors causing them to flow improperly and get very poor mileage. We upped the torsion to 5.4 to compensate for the upgraded cam and the car fires up quicker and is not dying out immediately. Has not stalled at idle either now. Going to let the car cool down and fire it again.
 

narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
This customer runs B99 and he had fuel contamination in the injectors causing them to flow improperly and get very poor mileage. We upped the torsion to 5.4 to compensate for the upgraded cam and the car fires up quicker and is not dying out immediately. Has not stalled at idle either now. Going to let the car cool down and fire it again.
Why in the world would he run B99 in the first place...especially on a PD.
 
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