Jeep Grand Cherokee Eco Diesel

eli

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Location
I-95
TDI
2017 Cruze stickshift 2019 Terrain
Nice!

I got An 019 terrain diesel on January 2 . Very nice so far.

Selling 017 cruze diesel stick to a buddy, because the mpg is too good, may as well go large.
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
TDI
2015 Jetta SEL TDI
Nice!

I got An 019 terrain diesel on January 2 . Very nice so far.

Selling 017 cruze diesel stick to a buddy, because the mpg is too good, may as well go large.
I have my 2015 Jetta SEL TDI loaded Stick Car , and my 2014 BMW 328D XDrive! And now My Jeep 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland EcoDiesel
Love it!
 

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
The diesel Jeeps have always intrigued me a bit.

Hows the reliability on them and what do you guys see as real life MPG's?
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Just got home this afternoon with a 2005 Jeep liberty CRD, 2.8l common
rail with a gt2056v Garrett turbo. 1 owner, very well maintained, a few
basic mods and great documentation on all work.

246k with a rebuilt auto tranny, runs great. I'll get some pics up soon.
TB was done 45k ago, but 5 years old. I'll get her registered,
PA inspected, and have a good look underneath. Drives good!


Should be a good tow vehicle, upgrade from the teardrop that the Golf
pulls.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
First Impressions

We've had the jeep a bit less than a week, but it's shaping up nicely.The front tires were in poor shape, so I bought a complete set of Generals and swapped one of the good rears onto the spare.That exercise turned into a drama, knuckleheads with impact guns had over tightened all the lug nuts. These are a "capped" nut, and some of the nuts had the caps busted off. So two different socket sizes, an 18 and a 19 to remove the nuts. New set should be here Monday. And one nut had to be drilled out and the stud replaced.



With the wheels off it was clear the inner pads on the front discs were starting to seperate, so off with the calipers, and while we're there, new discs. It had been sitting for 6 months or so. Previously the PO had been using it to commute to work, so lots of highway miles and 246k on the clock.


An engineer, hehad all records of maintenance, including a couple of key mods. CCV running to a Provent catch can system, and by unplugging the MAF, effectively deleted the EGR system. The CEL that pops up on starting is gone within a minute or so, he has a OBD scanner permanently plugged in that deletes the code. Haven't had time to really investigate exactly what it is, but it certainly works. Last TB was done 4 1/2 years ago, receipts included, and 45k miles. I'll have to investigate whether it has an age related change recommendation. I think I'm safe running it for another year and a half, kit sourced from IDparts.


Thankfully the front suspension was solid, ball joints, tie rod ends etc. No rust underneath, it spent it's whole life just south of the rust belt. And the owner always garaged it, and kept it clean. Said he never off roaded it.
The Chrysler auto transmission has known problems, the torque converter shudders going 4th to 5th (overdrive) circa 1900rpm. I believe that it's basically a gasser tranny that doesn't take in to account the low rev torque of the diesel motor. Shift points throughout the range are too low.


I've taken to hitting the overdrive on/off button, which cuts out the 5th, and also lifts the revs before shifting in the lower gears. Leaving it in 2nd around town with traffic and lights makes it much more controllable, you've got some engine braking. Into drive with OD off deals with country roads, once over 55 hit the button for OD 5th and now you're cruising. Since developing this overall strategy, shifting the auto, no shudder whatsoever, and now I've got some engine braking. Engine is running in the low 2k rpm range instead of the high teens. Same way I drive the TDI, rev the engine out it a bit more than "normal". Don't lug the diesel!, they don't like it.


Garrett GT2056v is I believe a VNT like the TDIs, certainly gets the 2 1/2 tons moving right along from 2500 to 3500, surprisingly quick when pushed. I can see why people like it offroading, it's got some grunt. And very comfortable at 70 on the highway, a real crossover.


It's got a couple whistles and bells, but not overburdened. I'm hoping the gas consumption computer is right, showing 26.5 around town. I'll be happy if it gets low 30s on the hwy. Body and interior very clean, garage kept and kept clean. Mechanically very good, motor sounds great, I've got rear brakes discs, pads, and a rebuild kit for the parking brake on the way. Muffler has been deleted with CAT in situ. Good price at $3900, already got a grand going in to it, but that's standard for any old used car to get her up to scratch in my view.


Got a 2" receiver hitch for the factory mount from Walmart, $20, and bolted it on with a nyloc nut. With the spare on the rear door no chance of getting taken out at the shins with the protrusion.
Had the 4WD running in the heavy rain on some country roads, haven't quite figured out what the "part time" 4wd does yet. Smooth shifting once tranny warmed up, should be great in snow.



Done some digging for Jeep forums, found a couple, but nothing as active as Fred's here. Apparently only ~ 12k imported 05-06 to the US, but rumor has it they were popular in Canada. Some used parts on Ebay, I'll have to talk my local injector guy if he knows anything about the fuel system. Idparts has the turbo for $1k. If I can keep the motor going for another 100k I'll be happy. DOHC 2.8l, VM, lots of them in Europe apparently, I'll have to talk to Frans about it. Don't know how feasible a manual swap would be.



The tranny was rebuilt a year and a half ago by the PO, transferrable 1.5yr left on the warranty. I feel much better about it after the last 2 days of playing with the shifting. Don't push it, and I think it'll be fine for my needs, got the Golf to hoon around in.
















 
Last edited:

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
Nice work getting it caught up on maintenance and repairs out the gate. It should serve you well.

Regarding the part-time vs full-time 4WD: on our older Grand Cherokee I remember the full-time 4WD basically allows for the diffs to be open so you can slip some of the front and rear wheels as needed, and this setting also allows for normal speeds on the road.

The part-time 4WD was only to be used for slower speeds and off-road where it locks the front and rear diffs and splits the power evenly between front and rear. It was not to be used continuously, just to help with extra grip.

I'm sure someone will chime in with a more technical answer soon.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
Regarding the part-time vs full-time 4WD: on our older Grand Cherokee I remember the full-time 4WD basically allows for the diffs to be open so you can slip some of the front and rear wheels as needed, and this setting also allows for normal speeds on the road.

The part-time 4WD was only to be used for slower speeds and off-road where it locks the front and rear diffs and splits the power evenly between front and rear. It was not to be used continuously, just to help with extra grip.
Correct, in a "part-time" 4WD mode, the front and rear driveshafts are locked together with no differentiation. Must not be used on high-traction surfaces (pavement).

"Full-Time" 4WD mode has a center differential inside the transfer case, so it's safe to use on any surface in this mode.

The KJ-Series Liberty (what you've got there, Russell) offered the same two 4WD systems as the XJ Cherokee that preceeded it:

If your transfer case shifter offers only 2Hi-4Hi-N-4Lo, you have the Command-Trac (NP-231) Part-Time 4WD system.

If your shifter shows 2Hi-4Hi-4Full-N-4Lo, you've got the Select-Trac (NP-242) system, which has a full-time High-Range 4WD option. 2Hi,4Hi, and 4Lo on this case are the same as in the Command-Trac case and thus should only be used on low-traction surfaces.

For both cases, you can shift between 2Hi-4Hi-4Full while moving at pretty much any speed (technically the owner's manual says only up to 55mph, but I've pushed that a little in my XJ). For 4Lo, the process is as follows:

1. Slow to 2-3mph or less, but still rolling slightly
2. Transmission to neutral
3. Transfer case through Neutral into 4Lo
4. Transfer case back into gear

Getting back to high-range would follow the same steps (slow to near-stop, to neutral, change tcase mode, back into gear).

All of this is in the owner's manual (which, given your description of the previous owner, you probably have).

Also, since it sounds like you plan to a lot of the work on this yourself, definitely invest in a Factory Service Manual (around $100). I did this for my 92 XJ, and while I'm no expert wrench, it's more than paid for itself over the years. Light years better than a Haynes or Chilton.

As to the manual swap, some of the 2.8L KJs sold here in the States did have a manual trans - someone I know in Colorado through work bought one with a stick, and loves it. A quick Google search indicates that the factory used the NSG-370 Six-Speed trans behind the 2.8, so there's probably a couple out there in in the salvage yards,
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Many thanks for the input gents! We've had some adventures already
with tires. I ordered the stock size but my set must have been on the
bottom of a stack. Trying to get them to install on the original 16x7 rims
was a no go, beads were collapsed in. So we went old school, my trusted
guru came back with a can of ether and we proceded to blow them into
place. Wowowow! It worked! We did go outside in the parking lot,
and they certainly did jump.

After wire brushing and chipping the rusty wheel mounts, and
carefully torquing every nut to 85'#s, a day later and maybe 20 miles, to my horror
there was a tic tic noise coming from the front. It got worse as I headed
for my guru's shop. A quick call and he said "Did you check the lug nuts?"
But I just torqued them 2 days ago! I was about to limp the next 5 miles,
luckily still had tools aboard, and thought, ok, I'll check 'em. Ayup!
Lugs were loose on the front tire that had the stuck nut. I would have
found out if the new lugs had arrived today when they were supposed to.
Noise now gone, made it to the shop without incident. After discussion,
it was clear that rust, or the lug stud not fully seated, had created just
enough space for vibration to start on the left front wheel, counter
rotation to the RH thread. Also the spec is 95#s, I'll adjust the wrench.

Got the PA title today in the mail, somewhere along the paperwork chain,
it got listed as "gasoline". Back to AAA to make a correction, just the kind
of thing that might bite you down the track with PA demanding an emissions
sticker. None here for diesel.

The onboard mileage computer seems to be working, dropped back to
25.5, and it does vary, so it's reading something. Perfectly acceptable
around town, and I'm adapting to shifting the auto.

The motor seems to be freeing up, though I'm not quite ready for a road
trip yet, have to develop some confidence with it before venturing very far.
Certainly starts ok with only a minimal pigtail showing first thing
in the morning. It's got a label on the motor about ceramic glowplugs.
and it had the Jeep "fix" for the problematical shudder of the torque
converter, from what I can gather, they detuned the motor a bit,
160hp > 150.
Now that I've developed a workaround for that, I'll not worry about
it.

Thanks for the explanation of the "part time 4WD", I do have the manual
and have been studying, but other than tying the axles together, I see no
real reason for the option yet. The fulltime 4WD with both diffs running
makes sense. I'll need a genuine offroad surface to test the differences,
or, heaven forbid, a good snowstorm.

My friendly guru I'm hoping will let me do the rear brakes myself,
I "helped" with the tires and fronts, learning heaps in the process.
Pay cash for his work, etc, and having his expertise when problems
come up is well worth the money he charges me. I've only ever been
a mechanic of necessity, but I find I can get interested in diesels.
Cheers!

 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
"If your transfer case shifter offers only 2Hi-4Hi-N-4Lo, you have
the Command-Trac (NP-231) Part-Time 4WD system." Rob

That's the one! And I'm getting a handle on the differences, part time is
indeed intended for occassional slippery surface use. If that snowstorm
hits, use it for getting going, and then use fulltime for driving around in it.

I've managed to find a manual online, which I've downloaded;
http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

Got an oil change kit and a new MAP on the way, the PO made a point of
telling me to clean it regularly. I'll swap the old out and have a clean spare
on hand. Service interval on the oil is 5-6k, although I'm tempted to run
it 10k like the TDI. Don't know if the "truck" oil is really any different,
I did manage to find a gallon of Rotella T6 5W-40 at the local Walmart.
The oil pan has a valve installed, which my guru shuddered at, he doesn't
like the possibility of it getting knocked off. It does need the skid plates
put back on, not that I bought the vehicle for offroad use, but any kind of
oil pan protection is a good thing in my book.

The manual swap would be a good thing to do, but the Significant Other
won't drive them, and it's supposed to be "her car". She's comfortable
driving it, I'll be sure to impress upon her the cautions on the 4wd system.
She allowed as how she's always wanted one, but her mechanic father
wouldn't allow it, said she'd likely flip it. Growing up in the snowbelt,
Maine, 4WD was a desired option.

I'll carry on with the full service, the rear brakes will be interesting. The
parking brake has shoes on a mini drum as part of the rotor.

I'm assuming the TB has an age limit like our TDI's. Got good documentation
it was done 4.5yrs ago with idparts quality kit, 45k. So I reckin I'm good
for at least another year and half. Good video on youtube about the job.
Involved!
I'll get a hold of some quality synthetic gear oil for the diffs and axles
and change all that. Fingers crossed that for it's low mileage intended use,
it'll keep going for a while. At least all the running gear is easily
sourced, and the more I listen to the motor, it's got a chance of going
another 100k without too many issues.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
The diesel Jeeps have always intrigued me a bit.

Hows the reliability on them and what do you guys see as real life MPG's?
Only had it a week....will let you know
That's the same 3l diesel I have in my Ram, although I don't remember if the Jeeps got the 8 spd tranny. Engine can have some issues, but then we're used to that! Make sure to take it in for the updated AEM flash. Supposed to be an improvement over the original EPA mandated crap. At 34k miles, I'm around 22 mpg lifetime with best tank at 27.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
With a little practice, you'll find you get used to rowing in and out of the 4Hi mode in snowy conditions, as I do with my XJ.

Pretty much you can use the part-time 4WD modes on anything but asphalt/concrete - a dirt/gravel parking lot would be an option for practicing.

Low range adds a 2.7:1 multiplier into the driveline (planetary assembly in the tcase), you won't need that unless you're offroad or pulling a boat up a launch ramp; max speed in 4Lo is only going to be around 15-20mph.

Nice find on the digital manual. I'm partial to the hard-copy for my Jeep, you can get the actual Chrysler one here if interested: https://www.factoryrepairmanuals.co...ice-manual-2-volume-set-original-shop-repair/

Looks to be a bit more coin than I paid years back for the two-volume set for my XJ, but there's also eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Jeep-...883713?hash=item1a8d6d0c41:g:LqcAAOSw0PtdUaWi

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Jeep-...737135?hash=item2f2f85706f:g:5yMAAOSwplNcv7IK (includes separate volumes for powertrain, with volumes just for the diesel engine and trans!)
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Rob,
Thanks for the links! I had no idea that even the owner's manual in the
khaki case was worth $30.

Got my new lug nuts on today, it was clear that the other front wheel was
in need of additional torquing. Got the wrench now set to 100'#s, and with
the rest of the rear brake package arriving tomorrow, I'll get her on a
lift next few days. And keep checking the lug nuts.

Oil change and get the parking brake working is the goal, and a new MAP.
I'll have to play with the 4WD on suitable surfaces/conditions. I do have
a boat, and lo 4WD on a slippery ramp could be just the ticket.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
Are the new lug nuts the OEM style with the "foil caps", or are they proper "solid" ones like McGuard sells?
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Rob,

Appear to be solid, Chinese off Ebay, $14 for a set, nicely chromed.
Good solid fit on my 19mm socket, much improved on what I had.
100'#s of torque and no worries.

Now for the rear and parking brakes, parts are in. Replaced the MAP,
found my little Chapman mini ratchet screwdriver and even had the right
4mm allen bit, huzzah! The original sensor was in better shape than expected.
Just a little oily, oh well, got a spare now.

Shifting the auto around town, and short hops, gives me around 24.5mpg.
Had a short highway run, OD button on and she loafs along at 70 very comfortably.

My farmer buddy's rain rutted gravel drive game me a chance to hit part time 4WD.
Shifts smoothly in and out, vehicle didn't blink, lol, I need something more
difficult to traverse.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
ONly time I've used 4-low is for working in the yard. Put it in 4-low and let off the brake. No tire spin, so no slipping on our lovely red clay.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
I've only used 4lo when I've gone off-road, honestly.

I'm a bit modded now, but with good driving skills you can do an awful lot with an unmodified Jeep. I have many times over the years seen folks with completely stock Jeeps be astonished at what they're capable of (including myself, once upon a time)

Want to get a taste of what it can really do? Maybe take a run up to Rausch Creek Off-Road Park in Tremont off I-81, they've got plenty of stuff suitable for newbies and do periodic guided rides/101-type stuff. I've been going there once or twice a year since 2007.

There's also the annual All-Breeds Jeep Show in York in July, they have an obstacle course you can run your Jeep on that can be lots of fun for first-timers.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Just driving some country roads and some steep driveways, I'm beginning
to realise this is a VERY different vehicle to the Golf. No speed demon, but
immensely capable, never owned anything like it.

Rob,
The York show sounds like great fun. I'm close, though that time of year
I'm usually on one of the 1000 Islands. The Libery's first mission is get the boat up there. I'll plan on getting back to Lancaster for a couple of days for the show, it's only 20 miles or so away.

Thanks again gents, I'll keep on working the old girl up to scratch.
(In retrospect, I should've started it's own thread)
 

DnA Diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2000
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
TDI
no more...
"If your transfer case shifter offers only 2Hi-4Hi-N-4Lo, you have
the Command-Trac (NP-231) Part-Time 4WD system." Rob
That's the one! And I'm getting a handle on the differences, part time is
indeed intended for occassional slippery surface use. If that snowstorm
hits, use it for getting going, and then use fulltime for driving around in it.

I've managed to find a manual online, which I've downloaded;
http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

Got an oil change kit and a new MAP on the way, the PO made a point of
telling me to clean it regularly. I'll swap the old out and have a clean spare
on hand. Service interval on the oil is 5-6k, although I'm tempted to run
it 10k like the TDI. Don't know if the "truck" oil is really any different,
I did manage to find a gallon of Rotella T6 5W-40 at the local Walmart.
The oil pan has a valve installed, which my guru shuddered at, he doesn't
like the possibility of it getting knocked off. It does need the skid plates
put back on, not that I bought the vehicle for offroad use, but any kind of
oil pan protection is a good thing in my book.

The manual swap would be a good thing to do, but the Significant Other
won't drive them, and it's supposed to be "her car". She's comfortable
driving it, I'll be sure to impress upon her the cautions on the 4wd system.
She allowed as how she's always wanted one, but her mechanic father
wouldn't allow it, said she'd likely flip it. Growing up in the snowbelt,
Maine, 4WD was a desired option.

I'll carry on with the full service, the rear brakes will be interesting. The
parking brake has shoes on a mini drum as part of the rotor.

I'm assuming the TB has an age limit like our TDI's. Got good documentation
it was done 4.5yrs ago with idparts quality kit, 45k. So I reckin I'm good
for at least another year and half. Good video on youtube about the job.
Involved!
I'll get a hold of some quality synthetic gear oil for the diffs and axles
and change all that. Fingers crossed that for it's low mileage intended use,
it'll keep going for a while. At least all the running gear is easily
sourced, and the more I listen to the motor, it's got a chance of going
another 100k without too many issues.
Rrusse11, I had an’06 CRD Liberty and loved it...except the transmission. Dodge/Jeep went cheap and put a plastic stator in the 545RFE’s converter. Went through three TCs under warranty. Would have kept it, but the issue hadn't been resolved when the warranty ended. Afterwards, the answer was to replace the converter with a billet and furnace brazed unit...most CRD drivers got one from SunCoast https://suncoastdiesel.com/c-1390072-diesel-converters-dodge-cummins-545rfe.html. I’fe you want to make it last and keep the Mrs. happy with the auto, I’d highly recommend giving SunCoast a call and asking about the converter. That VM. R428 is a beast...it’s what most of the London black cabs of the day had in them...very reliable engine (when the EGR was addressed, as is on yours).

Best

DnA Diesel
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
TDI
2015 Jetta SEL TDI
That's the same 3l diesel I have in my Ram, although I don't remember if the Jeeps got the 8 spd tranny. Engine can have some issues, but then we're used to that! Make sure to take it in for the updated AEM flash. Supposed to be an improvement over the original EPA mandated crap. At 34k miles, I'm around 22 mpg lifetime with best tank at 27.
It has the 8 speed and I have all service records it is nice sadly been sittor the last 2 months can’t really go anywhere
 
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