NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

JSWTDI09 · Feb 14, 2014

Second Turbo said:
The MY 2014s are presumably the last of the CR generation. This suggests that re-engineering of the CR fuel system is probably at an end, absent any shocking moves by NHTSA, which we don't expect. The CR is about to be replaced by the EA288 engine on the MQB platform. What fuel system [risk] the EA288 has is not known to me.

The MY 2014s are presumably the last of the current CR generation (I fixed this sentence for you). The EA288 will still be a CR Diesel, but it will be different. It may or may not have the same vulnerability. Only time will tell.

Have Fun!

Don

Second Turbo · Feb 14, 2014

There are more cr's than CR's

> The MY 2014s are presumably the last of the current CR generation ...

"CR" is the tag this forum uses to discuss the current generation TDIs (a'la PD, ALH). I'm not aware of any settled tag for the next gen. Although the EA288 engine will be a common rail, I suspect TDI Forum won't call it a "CR". We'll probably have to wait until we see the engine code on the build sticker.

I shall be very surprised if VW hasn't taken steps with the EA288 to reduce the self-destruct hazard to at least Passat levels, but then, I didn't think they let the CR problem fester this long, so I could easily be mistaken.

tadawson · Feb 14, 2014

CR = Common Rail = HPFP delivering high pressure fuel to injectors via common line.

Has absolutly *NOTHING* to do with brand, model, generation, etc. . . . It's a generic, industry wide term, much like 'diesel' . . .

- Tim

tditom · Feb 14, 2014

Second Turbo said:
> The MY 2014s are presumably the last of the current CR generation ...

"CR" is the tag this forum uses to discuss the current generation TDIs (a'la PD, ALH). I'm not aware of any settled tag for the next gen. Although the EA288 engine will be a common rail, I suspect TDI Forum won't call it a "CR". We'll probably have to wait until we see the engine code on the build sticker...

CR just stands for Common Rail. It is not a tidclub or VW specific moniker. It applies to Chevy, Dodge, Mercedes, BMW, VW, etc.

BRM and BEW were VW designations for pumpe duese (PD) fuel injection systems. ALH, AHU, 1Z were VW engine designations for rotary pump systems. Those are different than the use of CR to describe the current technology generically.

MonsterTDI09 · Feb 14, 2014

Here the EA288 engine.

fede179070 · Feb 14, 2014

Is there a maximum time limit on an investigation such as this one?

JSWTDI09 · Feb 14, 2014

fede179070 said:
Is there a maximum time limit on an investigation such as this one?

Apparently not. This one has been going on for years.

Have Fun!

Don

fede179070 · Feb 14, 2014

JSWTDI09 said:
Apparently not. This one has been going on for years.

Have Fun!

Don

Hard spent tax money I can see

LDS4964 · Feb 14, 2014

I drove two new TDIs yesterday...a Golf and a Jetta. They had no M6 cars available. Traffic was pretty heavy on 1-410 and it this was around 2-3 PM and the 3-4 mile drive,while also talking with the sales guy,was not much to go on. If I were to buy,I'd get a Jetta with the manual.

He said there are more Jettas with M6s in the area and very few Golfs so equipped.

I also drove a Mazda 3 with the 155hp 2L and a M6. It's a 41/hwy car. I drove this one about an hour after the VW trips. It was another drive of about 5 miles with not much of an opportunity to get a good up-and-down feel for it's characteristics.

Both the '3' and the TDIs feel very different in every way than my '12 Civic Si. Generally,I like the VWs more than the Mazda. My Si is only about 31/hwy so it is,for me,not a good one for doing some long driving trips(my income is lower,these days).

I'm not sure which way I'll go at this time. This site is very informative and I appreciate the knowledge and flow.

MonsterTDI09 · Feb 15, 2014

LDS4964 said:
I drove two new TDIs yesterday...a Golf and a Jetta. They had no M6 cars available. Traffic was pretty heavy on 1-410 and it this was around 2-3 PM and the 3-4 mile drive,while also talking with the sales guy,was not much to go on. If I were to buy,I'd get a Jetta with the manual.

He said there are more Jettas with M6s in the area and very few Golfs so equipped.

I also drove a Mazda 3 with the 155hp 2L and a M6. It's a 41/hwy car. I drove this one about an hour after the VW trips. It was another drive of about 5 miles with not much of an opportunity to get a good up-and-down feel for it's characteristics.

Both the '3' and the TDIs feel very different in every way than my '12 Civic Si. Generally,I like the VWs more than the Mazda. My Si is only about 31/hwy so it is,for me,not a good one for doing some long driving trips(my income is lower,these days).

I'm not sure which way I'll go at this time. This site is very informative and I appreciate the knowledge and flow.

The Golf is a litte more sporty than the Jetta.

LDS4964 · Feb 15, 2014

Yes,I noticed that during the drive. I like these and may take a chance on a '14;if not,I'll still be monitoring developments for a possible future purchase.

oswegoPD · Feb 15, 2014

If I were buying now, I would get a closeout 2013 Jetta Hybrid.

tomo366 · Feb 15, 2014

oswegoPD said:
If I were buying now, I would get a closeout 2013 Jetta Hybrid.

I like mine a lot !Good looking and performing car!! It doesn't get 5the gas mileage they said would......however I refuse to Hypermile it and the average is still over 5 MPG than the lifetime on my 2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDI was!!

40X40 · Feb 15, 2014

LDS4964 said:
<snip>

I also drove a Mazda 3 with the 155hp 2L and a M6. It's a 41/hwy car. <snip>

http://www.fuelly.com/car/mazda/3/gas l4

Unless I am missing something, fuelly reports it as a 31 mpg car, not a 41 mpg car. The guys that only drive city miles don't bother to report on fuelly.

Bill

LDS4964 · Feb 15, 2014

That's what the sticker claimed,with the A6 getting 40 mpg hwy.

My old 93 Civic got a best of 43/hwy (calculated) with the AC off. It was a 100hp 1.5L with a M5. Some sob stole it in 2006.

kchizmar · Feb 21, 2014

Hpfp went out 2010 Jetta

Have a 2010 Jetta TDi that's broken high pressure fuel pump just shot shards of metal throughout my engine. I see there are MANY MANY service bulletins out for this issue so VW is well aware that it is a problem! Stand by your product VW before you get slapped with a class action lawsuit!!! I love my Jetta but 6-10,000$ in repairs for an issues VW should take care of is a bit much

GTIDan · Feb 21, 2014

kchizmar said:
Have a 2010 Jetta TDi that's broken high pressure fuel pump just shot shards of metal throughout my engine. I see there are MANY MANY service bulletins out for this issue so VW is well aware that it is a problem! Stand by your product VW before you get slapped with a class action lawsuit!!! I love my Jetta but 6-10,000$ in repairs for an issues VW should take care of is a bit much

A problem yes; but check with your dealer. Its pretty well know by now that VW has been picking up the tab to fix your car. Check it out.

Good Luck

kchizmar · Feb 23, 2014

GTIDan said:
A problem yes; but check with your dealer. Its pretty well know by now that VW has been picking up the tab to fix your car. Check it out.

Good Luck

Thanks
Yes I've been in contact with VW after reading all the info out there on the net. I'm hoping this issue will be resolved easily. VW said they have to look into what is wrong with my car.
My question is I have seen posts saying entire motors have needed to be replaced..if that's the case sometimes wouldn't that be the smarter option for preventative reasons?
I just want it done and done right I have a feeling I will be making a few trips back and forth to the dealership unfortunately ugh

tadawson · Feb 23, 2014

I can't recall ever reading a recommendation to change an engine for a HPFP failure. Perhaps timing belt gone horribly wrong, but not HPFP.

- Tim

40X40 · Feb 23, 2014

kchizmar said:
<SNIP>
My question is I have seen posts saying entire motors have needed to be replaced..i<SNIP>

For a HPFP failure? I don't think so. Can you quote your source?

Bill

JBell · Feb 23, 2014

I've never heard of an engine requiring replacement/rebuild for a failed HPFP either.

taser · Feb 23, 2014

Great

Hopefully I'm not screwed. I just bought a 2010 Sportwagen TDI. This will be jetta Tdi number 3. 2 previous 2000 alh. I love that engine and did all work myself. Number 2 is going strong at 240k. I know how to care for a diesel.

Bought a 2010 to be the new family car. Drove it from CA to albuquerque no issues. Stalled in a left turn of traffic would not restart. Towed it home, pulled the filter and found the dreaded metal flakes. Car has 140k on it. Stall was 5 secs aft glow plug light illuminated and check engine illuminated. Cel code was fuel pressure low p087.

Where do I go from here? Will VW cover this or should I see if my insurance will? I read that usaa had covered a previous failure. Is there any way to convert to an alh setup? What about a 4bt injection pump. I'm not a fan of this cr setup. Please help, baby is on the way and the car is dead

GoFaster · Feb 23, 2014

Check with the dealer before you do ANYthing else. Only they can answer whether it will be covered. At that mileage, it might take some pressure. Keep us up to date.

The entire concept of common-rail injection cannot function with a separate distributor-type injection pump (of the type that older diesels, e.g. VW ALH or Cummins 4BT) are using. It is fundamentally incompatible.

taser · Feb 23, 2014

Thank you for the quick response. I will post updates

I understand the incompatibility with previous injection pumps and cr, I should have asked if anyone had successfully ditched the whole cr setup with an alh (or like) retrofit

This spirit of this video made me ask: http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/2micron/media/DSCI0496.mp4.html

kjclow · Feb 24, 2014

kchizmar said:
Have a 2010 Jetta TDi that's broken high pressure fuel pump just shot shards of metal throughout my engine. I see there are MANY MANY service bulletins out for this issue so VW is well aware that it is a problem! Stand by your product VW before you get slapped with a class action lawsuit!!! I love my Jetta but 6-10,000$ in repairs for an issues VW should take care of is a bit much

taser said:
Hopefully I'm not screwed. I just bought a 2010 Sportwagen TDI. This will be jetta Tdi number 3. 2 previous 2000 alh. I love that engine and did all work myself. Number 2 is going strong at 240k. I know how to care for a diesel.

Bought a 2010 to be the new family car. Drove it from CA to albuquerque no issues. Stalled in a left turn of traffic would not restart. Towed it home, pulled the filter and found the dreaded metal flakes. Car has 140k on it. Stall was 5 secs aft glow plug light illuminated and check engine illuminated. Cel code was fuel pressure low p087.

Where do I go from here? Will VW cover this or should I see if my insurance will? I read that usaa had covered a previous failure. Is there any way to convert to an alh setup? What about a 4bt injection pump. I'm not a fan of this cr setup. Please help, baby is on the way and the car is dead

Please be sure to both file claims with NHTSA. They still have an open investigation on the HPFP failures and your details may help. Also please post the details here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854&highlight=hpfp+failure

taser · Feb 24, 2014

VW will not pay for anything (as expected). Usaa sounds like they will as long as they find contaminated fuel. We will see. Any other advice?

kjclow · Feb 24, 2014

How many miles since you bought it until failure? If you bought from a dealer there should be some sort of limited warranty, so back to where you bought and also the last place that you fueled.

taser · Feb 24, 2014

Bought it private party. I have never had a problem with VW reliability. I'm on the fence whether or not to keep it even if the insurance pays for the repairs. If it is totaled I'm considering buying it back and trying to convert it to an alh

JBell · Feb 24, 2014

That sucks. Your car has 140K on it. While no manufacturer will "good will" repair components with that much mileage on them, it's not a question of if the HPFP will fail, it's when it will fail.

wilcharl · Feb 24, 2014

Keep pushing VW. Contact Customer Care. Let them know you know about the NHTSA investigation and that your a loyal VW owner etc...

NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

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