How to prevent Turbo Failure? 2010 Golf w/120k

Hi everyone,
Is there any way to prolong the life of the turbos on these cars and if so, do I have to go DPF delete or make sure the car doesn't shut down during regen, keeping the bearings too hot in the turbo?
Has anyone gone turbo timer despite all the hype these days about not needing one?

DETAILS:
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2010 Golf TDI 6spd Manual, all stock, no drivetrain or engine mods
Religious Oil changes every 5k with Penzoil, Lubri Moly, Mobil1, or Castrol
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WHAT HAPPENED?
Driving Home under part load (actually headed downhill but on the gas) felt a sudden drop in power. Then heard a whining/light grinding sound coming from the engine, kind of like a supercharger whine actually.
If you listen closely to this video, you can hear the whining/grinding sound over the clickety clack of the TDI engine...
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https://youtu.be/ZZ9Y2buEPdI
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Code P0299 was found after I got the car home.
Was able to drive home but with significantly reduced power.
Started car again a couple times to move it and verify sound coming from turbo area. Upon removal of the PS side (right side of the car) intercooler hose, found black oil that leaked out making approx 6 inch puddle on floor. No oil came out of Driver's Side Intercooler hose.
Removed engine out the front. Took about 5 hours with a lift and the engine hoist/cherry picker. Not bad considering I also have to do the timing belt now that I'm signed up for a $1000 turbo replacement cost just in parts.
Yanked off the DPF(?) and then turbo (took another hour). Found that the compressor side of the turbo (clean air side) was wobbling slightly per this video...
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https://youtu.be/ipD8rTF16cs
I've not yet ordered a DPF delete kit but I ordered a new factory replacement turbo and install kit from Europa parts. BTW emissions not req'd where I live.
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Thanks all!

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You pulled the motor to do a timing belt and turbo? Seems a bit overkill. To answer your question:
Yes a dpf delete will prolong turbo life. The bv43b turbos are not known for their longevity. Although mine was still going strong at 110k miles when I replaced it wit a bv43a.

5K mile oil changes are a waste of money and resources btw.

trbonium said:

Hi everyone,
Is there any way to prolong the life of the turbos on these cars and if so, do I have to go DPF delete or make sure the car doesn't shut down during regen, keeping the bearings too hot in the turbo?
Has anyone gone turbo timer despite all the hype these days about not needing one?

Click to expand...

I don't think that we really know the answer to this question, for sure. However, there are some theories floating around. The most common is the one you mention (heat). My theory is to never shut off the engine when the turbo is too hot. This means never to shut down the engine during or immediately after a DPF regeneration. It could also mean after a prolonged high speed run on the highway. It would always be a good idea to let your car idle for a short while to let things cool down a bit before cutting off the oil flow to the turbo bearings. What I do know is that EGTs during a regen can easily exceed the melting temperature of Aluminum, which is well above the temps that even the best synthetic oils can stand. EGTs of 1,200 to 1,500 degrees F. (for 10 minutes or more) is not unusual during a DPF regeneration.

I have gauges that can constantly monitor EGT sensors, so I can monitor the temperatures at the turbo and in the DPF. Unless it is an emergency, I never shut off my engine until pre-turbo EGT is under 400 degrees (F) and DPF temps are under 500 (F) degrees. I suspect that high DPF temps at shutdown could also be a factor in the cracked DPFs we have seen. These temps are easy to achieve after a quick trip around the block (after a regen) and then idling for less than a minute. Note: This procedure is not proven to prevent anything, this is only my opinion and practice. I do not know if it is completely correct or even important.

As for your last question (Turbo Timer), I have not heard of anyone installing these on a TDI. However, this does not mean that it has never been done.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. As for 5k oil changes, read this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2340534&postcount=27

Thanks guys! I'll update my oil change inteval.

I bought a Pyro gauge and single pod from New South - so those will be going in as well... what gauges are you using for the EGTs? Bluetooth and adapter or ???

As for removing the engine to do all this work. My answer - speed/time savings. This is my daily driver. And I won't have as many busted nuckles.
1.) hassle factor- 5 hours is a lot faster than however many hours I'd spend tearing stuff out of the side of the car (for the timing belt) *and then* potentially getting the turbo out
2.) honestly I didn't see a way to get the turbo out with a rather large breadth of tools (can see my shop in the photos) and not remove the bottom engine cradle. Have you guys actually removed turbos without removing the bottom cradle or by pulling the turbo out from the top? Did it take less than 5 hours? It took me about an hour alone, with everything accessible, just to get the DPF off and then the turbo.

Remember I'm combining labor here. Even if its a few more hours for a do it yourselfer, this was easier and I'm luckily not having to do this all in the dirt.

Except I will have to recharge AC, Coolant, and re-bleed/flush the clutch master and slave. I saw these as minor sacrifices.

trbonium said:

... what gauges are you using for the EGTs? Bluetooth and adapter or ???

Click to expand...

A BT adapter and TorquePro will work, but I have a Polar FIS+ which displays lots of information right in my instrument panel. If interested, there are several threads here about this little device.

Have Fun!

Don

Thanks again - I looked at the FIS + Advanced and that is really cool. Not sure if I'd have to scroll through the menus to see the EGTs before shutting off the car so I'm going to stick with the gauge I bought since it will always be showing EGTs and right in my face.

Anyone else out there have comments on turbo life or DPF Delete?

Is there a way for me to determine if the DPF is clogged visually - might help me make the decision on what to do...

Update:

I decided to go with a Malone Stage 2 and DPF/EGR Delete from Rawtek. I'm keeping the europaparts CR140 turbo (stock turbo) rather than upgrade to CR170. After thinking about it, I don't need stage 3 ridiculous power. I gotta get this car back on the road - been commuting to a new job in something much more questionable (although that rig meets emissions!). Hope to have all the additional goodies and tuned ECU next week, and am planning to do the timing belt tonight and turbo early next week.

Even if VW decides to do a buyback, I've decided to keep the car. Shame I had to spend $3200 on all this and then do the work myself, but, I've always liked the car a lot.

I will say that the 120k miles have been extremely reliable up to this point!

You can use the CR170 with a stage 2 tune, it lowers EGT's but you would have to do a full EGR delete as well. You get a more consistent power draw with the 170 turbo and stage 2 vs the 140 turbo and stage 2.

Wow, pulling the engine out to replace a turbo and timing belt???

Well at least you made it easy, even if a bit (or a lot) time consuming.

I take the subframe down, complete with steering gear, sway bar, etc. That only takes about a half hour, tops, unless you run into a sway bar link that doesn't want to come undone. Then you may add a few minutes for one of those.

I also take the cowling off and remove the little firewall insert.

Then the DPF and related connections are all much easier to get to. Once the DPF is out, the turbo itself isn't too bad. There are a few bits that are at awkward angles, but it isn't awful. That EGR pressure pipe fitting is a little tight on DSG cars, but I found my 14mm 12 point 1/4 drive crow foot tool that I bought decades ago for MB diesel delivery pipes fits that perfectly and makes that a breeze, even on the DSG.

The timing belt is cake. Hardest part about that is just getting the silly secondary electric fuel pump and related hoses swung out of the way.

These are not as easy to service as the older TDIs, but the labor time allows for that. And I am getting pretty good at doing turbos on these by now. I've probably done more CR turbochargers this year than I have all VE and PD turbos in the last 10 years.

Update: Engine back in, car back together, and I've got about 1500 miles on so far.

Better than expected mpg and performance is awesome.

Yeah, I did pull the motor, but I could have dropped the subframe down and added a front wheel alignment to my task list vs. recharging the AC. I recharged the AC myself for $23 and I still have some r-134a in the can. I'm pretty sure the labor hours for a first timer would be about the same overall, if that first timer has the same facilities I have, which is a lift and an engine hoist. Overall I spent right at 20 hours from busted car to working car.

Rawtek Eco exhaust with resonator and Malone stage 2 - no regrets. Car is as fast as a GTI now. Exhaust note is a mellow low tone, not loud at all and no drone or resonance at speed.

I went with the CR140 and it would have been nice to go CR170. Maybe others will learn from me on that one. The two turbos are basically the same price before adapters for the CR170 that are required.

Also installed a NewSouth gauge pod and MaxTow Pyro gauge - these were probably not as necessary as I thought. Turbo gets back down to 400 deg or less pretty quickly unless really pulling a hill for a while. Also the gauge pod stuck way back preventing the wheel being fully tucked into the dash on the telescoping column. It's only an inch but I'd much prefer being that extra inch away from the airbag should it deploy.

Probably will move the Pyro gauge and add a boost gauge in its place instead.

I've not really noticed "rolling coal" out of the car - I am finally seeing some black on the tailpipes (stock muffler retained) but no big clouds behind me - maybe it's just a puff when I mash the pedal.

The overall costs were as follows:

$578 - Diesel geek timing belt kit, fancy fix for throttle motor, plus timing belt tools

$1600 - Malone stage 2, Eco Exhaust and resonator (and shipping)

$1000 - Turbo, Turbo install kit, Pentofrost

$92 - Pyro Gauge from Max Tow

$45 - New South Gauge Pod

Total: aboout $3,400 with fluids and other items

Nice job. Now you know how to do it without pulling the motor next time. Which gen gti is the car as fast as now?

Lubri-Moly brought my turbo back to life, injectors too

I bought a MK5 TDI with 150,000 miles on it. The old service records reported that the previous owner thought the car was sluggish.
Yeah it was sluggish alright, and not sluggish-buggish.
So I used about half a bottle of Lubri-Moly diesel purge on the fuel injectors. The fluid immediately became discolored and then cleared.
I also removed the air intake and stuffed the Pro Line Lubri Moly air induction snorkel into the air intake. I noted that since this TDI was driven in the Pacific Northwest, with low sulfur fuel, that the intake had only about 1/4 inch of soft black goo lining the intake. (It reminded me of the same black goo that killed Lieutenant Yar (Crosby) in an early episode of Star Trek TNG.) (A good lesson to all of us not to quit a good job without having another ironclad job offer first!)
Anyway the 9 year old child in me was definitely amused using the Lubri Moly Pro Line. The instructions state to apply the aerosol for 2-3 seconds and then back off. Well on my 1.9L TDI I could only squirt aerosol for about 1/3 a second or less before the engine started revving. (I actually developed an amusing tempo of causing the engine to rev and drop down again. I like to make the beast obey my will!)
I stuffed the aerosol snorkel as far as I could, and I think I was directly affecting the turbo blades, because I could feel something batting at the snorkel end.
I used the entire bottle, and now my TDI turbo kicks in and you wouldn't know I was driving a diesel. Sluggish it is not!
I plan on treating the air intake about every six months or so to keep the engine running well.
By the way, I could not find it at O'Reillys or Autozone. Gosneys Napa Auto Parts in Auburn WA special ordered it for me. I like Gosneys. Very professional.

JSWTDI09 said:

A BT adapter and TorquePro will work, but I have a Polar FIS+ which displays lots of information right in my instrument panel. If interested, there are several threads here about this little device.

Have Fun!

Don

Click to expand...

Is there a certain torque pro that displays EGT and oil temp.? the torque pros I saw on ebay (OBD2 elm327) only listed IAT and coolant temps.

JELLOWSUBMARINE said:

Is there a certain torque pro that displays EGT and oil temp.? the torque pros I saw on ebay (OBD2 elm327) only listed IAT and coolant temps.

Click to expand...

I have not seen oil temp as an option in the torque pro menus. Yes on EGT's, but nothing on oil temp.