NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

I have GEICO MBI insurance to 100k miles so I will have mine at least until then. After that it won't matter anymore. After installing these VW will be sending people back to the gas station to claim damages. But which one? I am also waiting for 2microns pure/contain flow products.

mysql said:

It'll be interesting to see what VW has to say for themselves a year after all of the vehicles have the smaller neck. Customer must have used a funnel and poured gasoline into the fuel tank!

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All it takes is a steady hand and you can slowly pump in fuel from the smaller nozzle... I had not choice as I was on E and had added the additives prior to noticing the diesel pump had the smaller nozzle and the other diesel pumps had the huge big rig sized.

So I could easily see some blond on her cell phone attempt to pump in a gallon or so before she gets bored and drives away.

Hopefully this "fix" does not let VW get away with not fixing fuel systems under warranty cause of the HPFP destroying itself.

NYC-TDI said:

This is my fear. VW installs this fuel guard and then proceeds to deny warranty coverage when HPFP fails on a car with the new guard. I predict the first instance of such behavior will result in a mad rush of CR owners dumping their cars. I know I will.

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I would think this will be the opposite effect. With the fuel guard in place the spotlight would be on fuel pump design. But, I would also assume that this will cut failures in half or more. Which may then work against VW finding a real solution as the failures will be so few that it will not warrant a recall or tsb.

If memory serves me correctly, the known misfuels made up less than 10% of the total reported failures on the NHTSA paperwork. I'm basically to lazy to go back and find the info tonight. So I have to wonder what VWOA is going to do with other failures.

kjclow said:

If memory serves me correctly, the known misfuels made up less than 10% of the total reported failures on the NHTSA paperwork. I'm basically to lazy to go back and find the info tonight. So I have to wonder what VWOA is going to do with other failures.

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VW in the press release on autoblog I think said it was 90%...

Which means your 10% is probably correct

03_01_TDI said:

I would think this will be the opposite effect. With the fuel guard in place the spotlight would be on fuel pump design. But, I would also assume that this will cut failures in half or more. Which may then work against VW finding a real solution as the failures will be so few that it will not warrant a recall or tsb.

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Perhaps I didn't explain myself. Here's what I mean:

If an owner refuses to install fuel guard, (say because he worries that he will be stranded in the middle of nowhere on E with the only nozzle available a big rig style or gasoline sized one, something that has happened to me on more than one occasion) and then suffers a HPFP failure, VW will say, "you Mr. Owner must have misfueled it. We have a guard to prevent this from happening, but you refused to install it. That HPFP failure is therefore your fault, Oh and here's your bill for $8,000"

But if an owner does install it and later has a HPFP failure VW will say "Fuel was contaminated with gasoline. It must be the fault of your gas station as we have a guard installed to prevent accidental use of wrong pump. Here's your bill for $8,000, now go sue Shell, BP, Mobil, whoever."

Either way I see "goodwill" HPFP repairs coming to a rapid end.

I posted it before, it looks like from now on VW is going to be pointing to the gas stations now as the culprit and maybe rightly so, who knows. Goodwill will stop probably when NHTSA goes away.

NYC-TDI said:

If an owner refuses to install fuel guard, (say because he worries that he will be stranded in the middle of nowhere on E with the only nozzle available a big rig style or gasoline sized one, something that has happened to me on more than one occasion)

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You can get an adapter from VW for ~$10 that will make the under or oversized nozzle fit with the filler guard. I bought it before I realized additives could be added without using it, but now I keep it in my car just in case I am stuck at an old school pump without the appropriate size nozzle. So I think that helps to make your resistance a moot point.

I like having the gaurd, as I can tell VW look, only I fill it, and the guard is extra assurance to them it wasn't misfueled. People complain, but i think it is completely baseless... the people who complain about the guard, typically have not used it, but speaking from experience, it does not pose any problems at any station I have ever been too.

But, that said, I still keep the adapter in the car, just to be safe...

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

The guard just snaps into place. A proper pry tool will release the catch(s) and let it slide out. Pops right back in too. If it bothers you pop it out and clean it up and store it in the car. Pop back in if needed. I have had no trouble at all with mine but I can remove it in an instant if needed.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3957071&postcount=48

bhtooefr said:

What do you mean by a "spring like device"?

Here in Ohio, if you put a gas nozzle in a pre-2013 TDI, it just fits. Loosely, but it fits. Then you fill the tank, start the car, and shred the HPFP.

The 2013 restrictor is designed so a nozzle has to be 24-25 mm, instead of 20-21 mm, to open the filler neck.

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Check it out: http://www.gemplers.com/product/171...=171554&ef_id=UWI1cwAABPfaNRYt20130522030109s

I'm not seeing what on that pump handle would affect putting a gasser nozzle into a diesel.

Isn't the spring there to just help hold the pump handle in the filler neck?

bhtooefr said:

I'm not seeing what on that pump handle would affect putting a gasser nozzle into a diesel.

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The guard is in the filler neck, there are small "buttons" on both sides that must be pressed of the flap in the filler neck will not open, a diesel pump will open it, a gasser pump is too skinny to press both "buttons" at once.


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It looks like VW started installing the TSB yesterday.

No sign of the additional fuel filter yet.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=385550

I'd like to see what happens as soon as somebody has an pump failure with the filler kit retrofitted.

GTIDan said:

Check it out: http://www.gemplers.com/product/171...=171554&ef_id=UWI1cwAABPfaNRYt20130522030109s

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Looks like that's a 3/4" (~19mm) diesel nozzle.. That seems to be the size of the ones around here..

fede179070 said:

I'd like to see what happens as soon as somebody has an pump failure with the filler kit retrofitted.

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Seems to me the filler kit would help absolve owners of liability.

Hopefully it's not a complete PITA to operate...guess I'll find out soon enough.

If the '13 already has it (mine is a '13) then there's nothing to operate. Just stick the nozzle in and go. Piece of cake.

If VW thinks this is the solution but failures continue and Chevrolet has no failures with their Cruze.....

Then what?

Then we all start driving Chevys!

It will just shift responsibility from VW to the owner or fueling station. VW will still claim bad fuel and they have done everything in their power to stop misfueling. Assuming the hpfp blows quickly after fueling, you may have a chance at getting the station to accept liability. If it doesn't blow quickly good luck getting anyone to assume liability except the owner. The station I am sure will claim their fuel meets US standards. Now you are down to a huge legal mess.

quality_sound said:

If the '13 already has it (mine is a '13) then there's nothing to operate. Just stick the nozzle in and go. Piece of cake.

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Besides when the only available diesel pump won't fit in our new '13 TDI s.
It happened to me and it was a pain in the ass.


Federico

bfalke1 said:

The guard is in the filler neck, there are small "buttons" on both sides that must be pressed of the flap in the filler neck will not open, a diesel pump will open it, a gasser pump is too skinny to press both "buttons" at once.

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The implication was that gasoline nozzles in California had something on them that prevented misfueling a diesel with gasoline, not the misfueling guard in the filler neck.

The folks at Jalopnik are using the TDI recall to basically call us all idiots for putting the wrong fuel in our tanks. I may have to register just to set them straight:

Volkswagen Fixes Their Diesels Because Idiots Keep Putting Gas In Them

5/22/13

Volkswagen has a problem with their diesel engines: You. You people keep ruining them by filling them with gasoline instead of diesel fuel.P
Actually, I shouldn't say you, since a Jalopnik reader such as yourself knows the difference between the two fuels, and is smart enough to put the correct one in your car.

But VW is having issues with less astute American customers who buy the diesel cars and then fill them with gasoline, causing all sorts of mechanical problems and destroying their warranties.

It sounds ridiculous, but Automotive News reports it's enough of a problem that VW has issued a service action to refit more than 250,000 diesel Jettas and Golfs in North America. Those cars, which were made between 2009 and 2012, will get a new misfueling guard and fuel filler neck cap to prevent the cars from being filled with gasoline.

Full story here:

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-fixes-their-diesels-because-idiots-keep-putt-509309545

Not at all^. They basically said that gearheads use the correct fuel but the average joe who is multi tasking the cell phone, kids in the back seat, and pumping fuel can and does make the easy mistake of using the wrong nozzle.

But with no research into the issue about the hpfp and lubricity issues with US fuel.

Lightflyer1 said:

But with no research into the issue about the hpfp and lubricity issues with US fuel.

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Correct, no mention at all.

He then goes on to say:

"Allow me to break this down for you: Drivers are so ignorant about their own cars, which they bought of their own accord, that a car company has to take further steps to prevent people from ruining them."

I sent the guy a post, but I bet it doesn't get "cleared" for public consumption.

Here's my response to the Jalopnik article:

First: The NHTSA investigation is not closed. VW has asserted that the majority of the failures are from contaminated fuel. Some documented cases were where the VW dealer put gasoline in the new car to top it off for delivery to the new owner.

Second: There have been failures where the fuel was not contaminated. The majority of the failures reported to NHTSA were those where the owner did nothing but fill with fuel out of a diesel pump. If the fuel was contaminated, it was done in the storage tanks.

Third: The filler pipe restrictor has a spring in it that is contracted by the larger diesel pump and opens a door to allow the pump to go all the way into the filler neck.

Fourth: The Bosch high pressure fuel pumps are extremely sensitive to lubrication. US diesel fuel lubricity specs are lower than where Bosch designed the pump to run. A survey of diesel fuel through out the US showed that a lot of what we get at the pump is below the set lubricity spec. Anything in the diesel fuel that lowers the lubricty more (water, dirt, gasoline) can lead to the HPFP failing and spreading shrapnel through out the entire fuel system resulting in repairs in the $5000 - 8000 range.