Tow ratings of gas Passats?

midnightoil

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Location
Minnesota
TDI
researching for a TDI highway driver and occasional tow pig
Tow ratings of gas Passats? (for comparison/swap)

So one of the original things that led me here years ago was finding out about the reputation of the VW's as tow kings, at least in european ratings and such reaching 3500-4000lbs. Does this still apply with gas engines, or even the base 1.8L turbo?

Maybe the TDI would get the loads moving and probably 'feel better' while towing (though with a similar torque rating in the base turbo 1.8L i'm not sure why it would), I was just curious if I had a plan of possibly starting with a gas Passat and swapping a TDI later, if it would be just as effective as a tow vehicle until I was able to do that swap... afterall raw horsepower is even higher, I assume brakes and suspension should be the same setup, unless there are tow package specific items only available with diesel or a V6 for instance, or the diesel 5 speed is stronger than the gas 5 speed.

PS: i'm aware this is a TDI board, i'm just wondering if starting with a gas car then swapping the TDI later would put me in the same place.
 
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GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
No. These were not designed or marketed as tow vehicles. Brakes, unibody, suspension etc are the same regardless of engine. Keep in mind that (1) European hitches are different, (2) European ratings are dependent on having trailer brakes (good ones, not the "on/off" brakes activated by the brake lamp circuit that are common in north America), (3) if you are towing in Europe you are restricted to 100 km/h in the right lane on motorways, (4) a lot of Europe has pretty serious vehicle inspection requirements.

On this side of the pond: (1) nothing you can do to a vehicle can increase the legally permitted GVWR and GCWR, (2) if you get in a collision and you are above legally permitted GVWR or GCWR, it's on YOU, (3) home grown contraptions are generally less reliable than anything you could buy for the purpose.

I used to tow an open motorcycle trailer with a TDI. Trailer weight was around 1600 lbs with two bikes aboard plus toolboxes and whatnot. The car would do it but I wouldn't want to do more than that, and not just due to the powertrain. Bear in mind that this was above VW's published tow rating (1000 lbs) but less than the trailer hitch rating (2000 lbs).

Give it up. Buy a Chevrolet Colorado (in which you can get a 2.8 L diesel engine as original equipment) or something else that has the requisite tow rating built in, with a legit, commercially available Class 3 hitch. It will do what you want it to do, and be LEGAL and safe.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I have a passat bhw sedan with dvc tranny and stage 2 tune. Low gearing and small block v8 torque.

Because of mine and my family's obsession with buying/selling boats and other items that regularly require trailering i have had the pleasure of towing too much with the passat.

A few months ago I towed home a 2500 lbs fin keel Catalina 22. Maybe 3000 lbs with trailer. The boat was not loaded properly and we didn't have the proper tires for a single axle trailer so the squishy tires plus light nose trailer made speeds over 45 squirrely. It would sway the back of the car. A longer wheel based wagon would have been better. My excursion would have pulled her like it was nothing. If it had been loaded properly and had working trailer brakes along with proper tires it would have towed fine to cali and back. I don't put much stock in tow ratings as this is just a suggestion. Vehicle wear, tire choice and vehicle design can make some vehicles tow loads within the rated towing capacity a lot better than others.

My excursion for example had factory soft springs and no rear sway bar. Was rated for 10,000 lbs but it was white knuckle driving even with the 7.3 yet an f250 same year/mileage would tow my 7000 lbs boat like a dream. Sure my 7.3 had more power but felt less stable. The f250 had been abused towing campers all its life and my excursion was a soccer mom car much better kept. The suspension set up from the factory was better on the truck from the factory.

So with that being said if loaded properly on a dual axle trailer with trailer brakes id tow up to 3000 lbs with my passat. Id do more than that for a short trip. Insurance issues may arise in the event of an accident

You have to know how to tow, keep a safe distance from other vehicle and anticipate how your vehicle will handle different loaded vs unloaded.
 

midnightoil

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Location
Minnesota
TDI
researching for a TDI highway driver and occasional tow pig
No. These were not designed or marketed as tow vehicles. Brakes, unibody, suspension etc are the same regardless of engine. Keep in mind
I'm aware they werent designed or marketed as tow vehicles, yet the reputation is Jetta's tow better than any compact in the world, and the Passats are like upsized Jetta's with the same highway mileage and probably safer than a Jetta if both are towing the same weight. Is there any part of those comments you disagree with?

This is no different than questions asked years ago where there's people with Jettas towing home other Jettas and otherwise doing class 2 jobs with it.


Give it up. Buy a Chevrolet Colorado (in which you can get a 2.8 L diesel engine as original equipment) or something else that has the requisite tow rating built in, with a legit, commercially available Class 3 hitch.
At this moment i'm looking for a daily driver to replace the Saturn I drive and tow 1200lbs with now, and the separate, also being explored decision of how best to handle the harder loads I currently have which are currently going to a gas powered fullsize pickup. Just because i'm toying with the idea of wondering if one vehicle can do both jobs realistically it's probably not going to work out that way, but don't bash my thread just because i'm publically testing about six separate ideas in my research at the same time. :p

I would LIKE to replace the Saturn with something that can take a class 2 weight distributing hitch instead of the class 1 I have now, even if exactly what weights and aerodynamic loads still being open to discussion simply because that would let me stretch upwards at times some things that i'm pulling now with the pickup. Whether the figure is 2000lbs, 2600lbs, 3000lbs, or 3500lbs is irrelevant - it's more than my Saturn is pulling now.

Regardless of what you think of my 'projects', or whether you are frustrated because you think everything being asked is for the exact same project, at the end of the day if nothing works I just fall back to the system I have now - light towing compact car daily driver and heavy towing pickup. I dont know if a Colorado will do my combination of jobs best either because the financing cost skews the spreadsheet numbers and makes me start thinking things like a power boosted TDI Dakota midsize might be the better mid-to-heavy tow setup.


Where I choose to draw that line in the future might still be an open debate but I don't understand why youre wanting to close my topic which others talk about all over the board of their personal tow habits. I like the idea of a car that in a pinch can haul home it's own weight even if it's at 55mph (or less at some weights) with the best progressive trailer brake controller made, and part of me is curious WHY it has this reputation whether it's just the TDI torque that fools people into a false sense of security or if there's something else. Reputations aren't established over nothing.

I'm also focused on towing the same levels others seem to have safely done in the past vs going into uncharted territory, not one thing i've asked by itself has gone beyond what I have evidence of usually at least two other people already doing. If what i'm contemplating towing "is done every single day in Europe" then let me worry about it and if a Passat has better brakes/suspension to do a job than the same weight behind a Jetta I don't see how discouraging a Passat is more sensible.


I have a passat bhw sedan with dvc tranny and stage 2 tune.

A few months ago I towed home a 2500 lbs fin keel Catalina 22. Maybe 3000 lbs with trailer. I don't put much stock in tow ratings as this is just a suggestion. Vehicle wear, tire choice and vehicle design can make some vehicles tow loads within the rated towing capacity a lot better than others.
That's kind of my point, there are people doing things that are perfectly legal yet foolhardy. I've been at times forced to drive things that were "legal" but actually unsafe for a driving job I quit. I get a little frustrated when too many assumptions start being made usually based on partial information just because I ask alot of questions with overlapping purposes.

And there again is a weight about what i'm considering for a Passat, 3k. Did you have a lawyer riding with you asking if that was legal for you to tow? Have you driven 61mph in a 60mph zone? There are times when the only thing i'm concerned about is if my girlfriends car broke down across town 20 miles away, can I just tow her home with the Passat at 45mph using a really good TBC normally used for flat towing cars behind pickups... because maybe the day of the breakdown the pickup wasn't available, or because we can only park two cars instead of three the pickup is parked 100 miles away at a friends place.

Then if that ends up being safe to do there's a part of me that wonders if I happen to have the Passat and a trailer but the pickup again just isn't available, and I find some really good craigslist deal on ( x ) making me $1000 in one trip... is it safe for me to haul it home because it's slightly overweight?

Everything is a question of small careful steps from the place you were before, not giant leaps of stupidity. Were all watching for slippery slopes and clearly limits are hit at some point though. It shouldn't be assumed that just because I want to tow a little over the limit, that i'm simultaneously speeding, running barely legal near bald tires, having just drunk some alcohol but just under the limit, and doing this during a blizzard with black ice.
 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
3K-4K lbs is not a little over the limit. Stay with the Class 1 hitch and its' rating and yo will do a favor to the rest of the people on the road. Towing a Jetta with another Jetta is stupid. $hit can go sideways really easily even if you are careful. If you need to write a novel to explain why you are doing things then, you and I both know it's wrong in many ways. The more someone needs to explain something the more it starts to sound like BS.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
And I'll leave these:





LOL.... I've lost track of how many Ax cars as well as other smallish cars I have drug home or to the shop with that same Golf. I bought it at 383k miles, went through the Great Untooefing, and here it is 162k miles later and I am still driving it, same engine, same transmission, same CLUTCH, heck I haven't even ever worn out a set of brakes on it yet. :p The Bosal hitch is rated for 3300 pounds, the holes in the unibody were already there where Volkswagen placed them, specifically for trailer hitch mounting, and it is the same hitch they sell in their ETKA system. Plugs in tail lamp bulb holders already there for trailer wiring hookups.... VAG sure did an awful lot of planning for something that so many people think was never meant to tow anything. :rolleyes:

BTW, that picture of the wrecked ECOdiesel Jetta? That was after I towed it back to Union MO (about 50 miles west of STL) from the DC area. Ran at the speed limit, non stop save for ONE fuel fillup on the way home. It got 39 MPG average on the way home... the whole trip, so empty dolly dragging along the whole way there... netted 42 MPG. :p

That said, towing with a dolly takes an extra level of concentration, regardless of what you are using to tow it, and it is not something for everyone nor do I necessarily recommend it. I also have an F150 and a Sprinter that are much easier to use, and the Sprinter doesn't use all that much fuel so since getting it I have not towed a car with the Golf once but still use my little utility trailer with it quite a bit.
 
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PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
If you think the passat and jetta tow rigs look dangerous Google goldwing towing.


I dont like towing with a tow dolly when vehicles are of similar weights, no doubt it works but you'd better have the focus of an MLB short stop.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Fortunately, I have over a million miles of driving under my belt and never had an accident, so I feel pretty qualified to do it. But I have no doubt a lot of people have no business even trying. There are some real idiots out there.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
They transport missiles in Canada with passat wagons, eh?
 

Zambee500

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2005 Passat TDI GLS, 2014 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium
Always loved these pics from a thread posted here several years ago about a trip through the Swiss Alps.

 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
Typical Eastern Block towing. Under powered car towing an overloaded trailer. :)
 

midnightoil

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Location
Minnesota
TDI
researching for a TDI highway driver and occasional tow pig
3K-4K lbs is not a little over the limit. Stay with the Class 1 hitch and its' rating and yo will do a favor to the rest of the people on the road. Towing a Jetta with another Jetta is stupid. $hit can go sideways really easily even if you are careful. If you need to write a novel to explain why you are doing things then, you and I both know it's wrong in many ways. The more someone needs to explain something the more it starts to sound like BS.
It's over the AMERICAN limit. Of the same identical car sold in europe with the same brakes, same suspension, same chassis. A half dozen followup posts showing what i'm talking about is why i'm still talking.

I am fully aware of the physics involved in towing and the biggest factor in "european style" towing is SPEED. The difference in trailer sway going 55mph like europeans vs 75mph like americans is immense. They run much lower toungue weights, to generally avoid overloading the rear axle, but at lower speeds the dynamics of trailer sway is not nearly as much of an issue. It's also alot easier to brake and stop from 55mph than it is 75mph.

I seem to have to sound like a broken record at times so let me try to say this, yet again, for the umpteenth time. I am not striving to do anything BEYOND what is being done, every single day, all over europe, LEGALLY within their laws. I just dont happen to live in europe right now.

I would have to be some kind of a__hole to try towing a Passat with another Passat at 75mph and nowhere, at any time, on any post, have I suggested that that is what I am trying to do.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
All but the smallest trailers in Europe are required to have trailer brakes, too. Those big tow ratings that you see on European-spec cars are contingent on having trailer brakes. There is a much lower rating if the trailer does not have brakes.
 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
All but the smallest trailers in Europe are required to have trailer brakes, too. Those big tow ratings that you see on European-spec cars are contingent on having trailer brakes. There is a much lower rating if the trailer does not have brakes.

Europe doesn't allow electric trailer brakes either, only hydraulic ones. The tow hitches get a federal inspection when they are installed on a car and so on. There are many differences between Europe and Merica. Just because it's legal there doesn't make it OK to use it here.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
There are many differences between Europe and Merica. Just because it's legal there doesn't make it OK to use it here.

I had a Willie Nelson song going through my head as i read this.


Most of us outside Cali have a cake walk vs the European car/truck inspection system.
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
I love these discussions about towing:

Search the forum for "Towing"



We are using our Beetle as a tow vehicle primarily now. It is smaller and lighter than the Passat and based on the Golf platform.

The North American market has restricted us by making larger hitches hard to find. We are stuck with class 1 hitches that max out at 1,500 lbs. If you want a class 2 hitch you have to search or have one made.

Add electric brakes and a brake controller and you can increase your load. We are capped off at 1,400 kgs (3,000 lbs) before needing trailer brakes. Our little trailer comes in around 2,000 lbs when we are loaded and the car does very well with that load.

Our owners manual doesn't have a towing weight but it says the info was not available at the time of printing. There is a nice section of how to safely tow with the Beetle. Seems strange that VW wouldn't want us to tow but tells us how in the manual.

We rarely drive above 60-65 mph. Don't want the swaying to become an issue so we keep the speed down.

It comes down to common sense and a good knowledge of how the car behaves with the load on the back.
 
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