2012 Passat TDI oil change

phlfly · Jan 11, 2013

tdiatlast said:
What makes you think Castrol isn't fully synthetic?

It's not. All Synthetic Castrol is group III oils. Do more research on web.

phlfly · Jan 11, 2013

40X40 said:
phifly,
You are correct, this country was settled by immigrants, but please consider this one very important point:
Only ONE person loses out when you post something that no-one can quite understand: YOU are the one that loses. Only you and no-one else.
This has not a damn thing to do with respect of a language or a person or where that person came from.... if you cannot effectively communicate, you are just wasting your time.
If you have a question and we can understand it, we will try to help you.
Bill

With all respect don't go there, where "redneck" lives.

WutGas? · Jan 11, 2013

Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high-quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005, production of GTL (gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began, the best of which perform much like polyalphaolefin. Group III-base stocks are widely permitted to be marketed as synthetic motor oil with few exceptions where they are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic" (for example, Germany).

Anyone else find it odd that the OEM oil is a group III even though it isn't "true" synthetic and can't be marketed as such in Germany?

(Assuming the Wikipedia excerpt is accurate)

Also, did a search. Found this write up from Powder Hound.

Depends on whose definition of synthetic you're using.

For the record, as far as I can recall, the FTC agrees with Castrol, that it is a synthetic.

The issue came up originally because of hydroprocessed dino feedstocks that came out with qualities that are superior than lubricants based on first cut refinery output. The process was (IIRC) developed by Chevron and is licensed to a number of companies.

After looking at what has happened in the lubricants marketplace, I surmise the following:

1) Castrol started marketing this hydroprocessed (group III) oil and called it a synthetic. It has properties that are better than straight dino feedstocks (group I and II) but maybe not quite as good as PAOs (group IV).
2) Mobil got upset. Mobil 1, a PAO based oil, costs significantly more than a group III oil, so even though the price of Mobil 1 was significantly higher, Mobil wouldn't be making as much money, and their market share would be taking a nose-dive due to the retail price advantage Castrol would enjoy.
3) Mobil sued.
4) Mobil lost.
5) A large number of companies now market synthetics and synthetic blends at much higher price points, and much higher margins since the retail customer doesn't know what the heck the word synthetic means anymore, and they think they're getting an exotic product instead of simply cleaned up dino oil.
6) I don't like Castrol. I don't like the fact that they are virtually the only supplier of the only oils 'blessed by VW' that are commonly available in the USofA. I don't like the fact that they are selling $1.25/qt oil for $6.50/qt, or much more if you buy it from a VW dealer. I don't like people on this forum that march to the VW and only VW mantra, particularly when it comes to fluids. I mean, really, they won't go to a dealer for service, but that same parent company is the one and only place for fluids? Are you kidding me?

So if you really want a really synthetic synthetic oil, you are left with 3 choices. 1) Redline 2) Amsoil (only their top grade) 3) Motul (I have no idea what the name is, I only know they have one ester based product).

After that, you have hydroprocessed dino oil (group III, Castrol, etc.), and really really processed dino oil (processed into PAOs, called group IV, Mobil 1, some mid-grade Amsoils, [used to be Chevron Delo 400 synthetic, but they quit doing PAOs]). These are being called synthetics.

Some people think PAOs start out as natural gas in a GTL type process, but it isn't happening. Processing dino oil into PAOs is cheaper, so that is how they're produced. It could be done as a GTL, it just isn't right now.

So maybe the polyolesters used in Redline, Amsoil, (and Motul's I bet) start out as dino oil also, get blasted to atoms then recombined into a completely wacked out alcohol (yes, polyolesters are an alcohol - but they lube well, stick to metal, and have better temperature stability than any lesser group base), so it wouldn't be a GTL process either.

When it comes right down to the basics, what do you need? There's lots of good oils that will work for the VE pump engines. There's an exotic oil 'required' for PD engines. Since there are examples of both problems running the 'correct' oil, and no problems running the non-blessed type, wherein lies the fault? Is it with a barely meets spec oil sold by Castrol (because they have a virtual captive market)? Is it bad parts from the factory by VW? Is it dealers that don't know or care? Clueless owners?

I don't think we'll ever know the truth.

You're left with what do you want to consider to be a synthetic oil. I choose Redline. You choose whomever/whatever you will.

40X40 · Jan 11, 2013

phlfly said:
With all respect don't go there, where "redneck" lives.

See, there you go again. What are you trying to say?

Bill

phlfly · Jan 11, 2013

WutGas? said:
Anyone else find it odd that the OEM oil is a group III even though it isn't "true" synthetic and can't be marketed as such in Germany?

(Assuming the Wikipedia excerpt is accurate)

Also, did a search. Found this write up from Powder Hound.

So what? It's not true synthetic, they can called any name, even win case in the court it's still not synthetic, so whenever they said it's not there.
But you can fill your car whenever oil and be happy. But I will not. This forum is exist for enthusiasts.

You need to read this forum http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

phlfly · Jan 11, 2013

40X40 said:
See, there you go again. What are you trying to say?
Bill

See your problem is you think US is just one country in the world but isn't. Those are called elitists
This thread went wrong way so let's not discuss this here you can email me.

WutGas? · Jan 11, 2013

phlfly said:
So what? It's not true synthetic, they can called any name, even win case in the court it's still not synthetic, so whenever they said it's not there.
But you can fill your car whenever oil and be happy. But I will not. This forum is exist for enthusiasts.

You need to read this forum http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

So not only are you not very good at being clear with your statements, your reading comprehension is lacking as well as I was backing your point up.

40X40 · Jan 11, 2013

phlfly said:
See your problem is you think US is just one country in the world but isn't. Those are called elitists
This thread went wrong way so let's not discuss this here you can email me.

So the USA is not just one country (out of the many) in the world? How many countries do you think make up the USA? Who are the 'elitists'?

Since I do not have your email address, I will not be emailing you..... If I did have your email, it would do little good as you apparently cannot make yourself understood in written english, which unfortunately is the only language I know.

Currently there are only two languages supported by the TDIclub forums. English in the main forums and French in the Quebec subforum.
Perhaps you could ask the moderators if they could open a Russian language sub forum for you.

Bill

tdiatlast · Jan 11, 2013

phlfly said:
It's not. All Synthetic Castrol is group III oils. Do more research on web.

Thanks for the encouragement to do the research. I was simply falling into the trap of believing Castrol's advertising! I had forgotten about the Mobil lawsuit, and the result of the lawsuit, and that all these companies dance around the "truth".

phlfly · Jan 12, 2013

I don't know if it was ever posted here but anyway:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

VeeDubTDI · Jan 12, 2013

Chill out, Bill.

phlfly · Jan 14, 2013

One more thing. Since I repalced oil (Castrol with Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5W-30) my mpg went up on same commute from 34.5 to 38.5, but also it's mid 40's in the morning.

WutGas? · Jan 14, 2013

You must've got that new magic mpg oil. Not to mention, unless you had your 5K oil analyzed, you don't know that it was Castrol (assuming that was the factory fill).

FormerOwner · Jan 14, 2013

MPG gain huh? Wow! heard that crap 10 years ago when I owned an A4 TDI... snake oil salesmen really gotcha this time!

phlfly · Jan 14, 2013

Very Funny

tdiatlast · Jan 14, 2013

FunnyY? Not really.
MPG gain of 8% because of LiquiMoly? How did you document this?

phlfly, your posts continue to boggle the logical mind.

phlfly · Jan 14, 2013

I don't know but it could be sounds crazy. May be computer went nuts. I drove thru same traffic as everyday I do. The trip computer had showed 0 miles, 0 Avg, 0 speed, 0 avg speed. I will get today later after driving home. I had aircon. on for first 10 min of the trip.

TomB · Jan 14, 2013

phlfly said:
See your problem is you think US is just one country in the world but isn't. Those are called elitists
This thread went wrong way so let's not discuss this here you can email me.

Not that I normally agree with Phlfly on many posts, but to someone who has lived elsewhere in the world or even traveled extensively, their is an "attitude" that Americans as a whole have about their self-importance in the world. Myself included years ago before I traveled the world and saw the difference.

Even within the US certain cities find themselves the center of the universe, New York, LA and DC come to mind. This from someone who lived in LA and bought into the whole self-center of the universe concept.

After moving to Seattle and getting away from that self serving attitude, I saw the difference and wonder how the heck we ever drunk the koolaid so completely in the rat race.

It is obvious that since many here speak English as their mother language from birth, they fail to realize English is one of the HARDEST languages to master. Even those born into English fail to properly understand it in the US and it is painful to listen to and read. Cut those who do not speak English a break.

WE should help them understand it, not belittle or blame them for a failure to communicate. WE need to go the extra mile to understand them. I am sure you would expect the same courtesy if you lived in another country. English is NOT the only language in the world and even though my own, not the most important either.

Lightflyer1 · Jan 14, 2013

phlfly said:
I don't know but it could be sounds crazy. May be computer went nuts. I drove thru same traffic as everyday I do. The trip computer had showed 0 miles, 0 Avg, 0 speed, 0 avg speed. I will get today later after driving home. I had aircon. on for first 10 min of the trip.

Calculated tank averages is the normal reporting done here. Using the computer and short trips doesn't really tell you much and is subject to lots of error.

tdiatlast · Jan 14, 2013

TomB said:
Not that I normally agree with Phlfly on many posts, but to someone who has lived elsewhere in the world or even traveled extensively, their is an "attitude" that Americans as a whole have about their self-importance in the world. Myself included years ago before I traveled the world and saw the difference.

Even within the US certain cities find themselves the center of the universe, New York, LA and DC come to mind. This from someone who lived in LA and bought into the whole self-center of the universe concept.

After moving to Seattle and getting away from that self serving attitude, I saw the difference and wonder how the heck we ever drunk the koolaid so completely in the rat race.

It is obvious that since many here speak English as their mother language from birth, they fail to realize English is one of the HARDEST languages to master. Even those born into English fail to properly understand it in the US and it is painful to listen to and read. Cut those who do not speak English a break.

WE should help them understand it, not belittle or blame them for a failure to communicate. WE need to go the extra mile to understand them. I am sure you would expect the same courtesy if you lived in another country. English is NOT the only language in the world and even though my own, not the most important either.

I agree that the world isn't even remotely English-centered. That really has nothing to do with what was requested of the poster.
Nothing I said was belittling. MY request was that anyone with a language deficiency should be seeking ways to improve that deficiency by asking for help. If someone wants to be understood, they need to be able to frame their statements correctly. There is nothing insulting in that request.
Several of us pointed out, repeatedly, that because of the poor writing, we had no idea what was being asked. The writer was putting himself at a distinct disadvantage, AND opening himself up to ridicule by some.
I speak French as my second language. I promise you that before I put ANYTHING in writing, in French, I have a French-speaking friend review it and edit it. That way I know that what I'm saying is exactly what I meant to say.

phlfly · Jan 14, 2013

yes I'm trying to be better in the writing but since I don't have a lot time, I'm typing to fast and missed words once in the while. So I will try to slow down and read before click submit button.
But that's still strange with mpg.

tdiatlast · Jan 14, 2013

Thanks for trying.
My wife and I were good friends of Mstislav Rostropovich, the world's greatest cellist of the 20th century. In person, his English was TERRIBLE, but always spoken with such charm and grace that everyone around him was...well...charmed.
ANY time he was asked to write anything, the grammar/syntax/spelling were all perfect. Why? Because he understood that the written word has to be very clear to be understood.

VeeDubTDI · Jan 14, 2013

Are we all getting along now?

phlfly · Jan 14, 2013

tdiatlast said:
Thanks for trying.
My wife and I were good friends of Mstislav Rostropovich, the world's greatest cellist of the 20th century. In person, his English was TERRIBLE, but always spoken with such charm and grace that everyone around him was...well...charmed.
ANY time he was asked to write anything, the grammar/syntax/spelling were all perfect. Why? Because he understood that the written word has to be very clear to be understood.

Yea he is amazing person, people like him, Sacharov, stood against Soviet system, in the danger to be arrested and killed. Amazing people with amazing courage back in those days.

Yes we are, I had different experience with cars like BMW, so a lot us , BMW fans, were skeptical about 15,000 oil interval, and thought a lot failures it's something to do with oil.

BTW, my mpg is back to normal a little higher, 36.3 mpg.

domano 68 · Jan 15, 2013

gergg said:
...Diesel oil turns black almost immediately after changing it...

Got my 10,000 mile service done today. I checked the oil before the dealership changed it and it was very black. I checked it after 3 miles of driving with the new oil and it was black but seemed to have a clearer tint to it than the initial oil. I don't believe you can get all of the oil out after a change so the old oil has some "color influence" on the new oil for sure.

VeeDubTDI · Jan 15, 2013

I checked the oil immediately after the 20K service - before driving off the dealer's lot. It had a nice tint to it. Perfectly fine!

domano 68 · Jan 16, 2013

VeeDubTDI said:
I checked the oil immediately after the 20K service - before driving off the dealer's lot. It had a nice tint to it. Perfectly fine!

Black tint?

VeeDubTDI · Jan 16, 2013

Yup. I did a double-take but it was evident that it had been changed based on the oily EGR sock.

Rico567 · Jan 16, 2013

TomB said:
Not that I normally agree with Phlfly on many posts, but to someone who has lived elsewhere in the world or even traveled extensively, their is an "attitude" that Americans as a whole have about their self-importance in the world. Myself included years ago before I traveled the world and saw the difference.

Even within the US certain cities find themselves the center of the universe, New York, LA and DC come to mind. This from someone who lived in LA and bought into the whole self-center of the universe concept.

After moving to Seattle and getting away from that self serving attitude, I saw the difference and wonder how the heck we ever drunk the koolaid so completely in the rat race.

It is obvious that since many here speak English as their mother language from birth, they fail to realize English is one of the HARDEST languages to master. Even those born into English fail to properly understand it in the US and it is painful to listen to and read. Cut those who do not speak English a break.

WE should help them understand it, not belittle or blame them for a failure to communicate. WE need to go the extra mile to understand them. I am sure you would expect the same courtesy if you lived in another country. English is NOT the only language in the world and even though my own, not the most important either.

This is not peculiar to any country or place. It is simply evidence of -centrism, be it ethno-, geo-, whatever. It is completely natural and will emerge wherever you are in whatever people live there, no matter their culture. I visited Somalia what seems like a very long time ago, and people who wore rags and herded sheep considered themselves the lords of creation. A town not so very far from us in Central IL thinks the world is flat and drops off into empty space at the borders of their township. I could go on, but you get the idea, I'm sure. As Mark Twain wrote in Innocents Abroad, travel is the best cure for insularity. He also had a good way of viewing it from the flip side:

"I am quite sure that (bar one) I have no race prejudices, and
I think I have no color prejudices or caste prejudices nor creed
prejudices. Indeed I know it. I can stand any society. All that I
care to know is that a man is a human being - that is enough
for me; he can't be any worse."

- Mark Twain
contribution to Harper's, Sept. 1899

domano 68 · Jun 13, 2013

Now that I have done my first oil and filter change, I am less confident that my dealership did not change my oil at 10K as they were supposed too. After checking my oil after the dealership changed it, the oil was very black as it looked before I took it in for the service.

I recently changed the oil myself at 15,000 miles just to see how long it took the oil to turn black. After over 100 miles, the oil still looks somewhat clean. Definately not solid black. So either the dealership did not change the oil, oil filter, or both. Not sure the reasoning here but the "free" service for 36,000 miles is a joke! Very disapointed.

2012 Passat TDI oil change

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