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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old October 21st, 2019, 16:13   #1
csstevej
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Default 2000 NB starting issue

Thanks in advance,
First Iím not a newbie here, I think I understand the ALH fairly well, I have 5 of them now.
My latest project is a 2000 5 speed NB that was supposed to be a simple TB and mods......... ended up with a lot more engine damage as first lead to believe .
PO mechanic set the TB wrong and had an incident, replaced the head when valve dropped ( didnít know about this ) found this out after I didnít like the way lifters looked.

I pulled the head and found head looked good but piston 1 &2 from tb side to have had an argument with a ball peened hammer and lost.
I did a height check on the pistons and found 1&2 to be below spec compared t 3&4 and the head gasket holes.

Long story short Franko6 got me squared away with a balanced set of pistons, and rods , new crank bearings and connecting rod bearings cap bolts etc.....
Honed cylinders ,new rings .

Engine fired perfectly runs great for that last few months as I get other things done on it, put about 20 miles on car and runs great till,about a month ago.....

Usually I start my cars and either let the idle till warmed up or drive them up and down my street just to get everything moving and up to temp and keep battery charged.
Last month had trouble starting car.......symptoms seemed to be lack of fuel.....cranks several times and finally fired up , then die......did this several times till everything was normal...
Let it sit for awhile and boom , fires right off......even better than my current driver.

Tried starting today and same symptom, fired than died to the point that it killed the battery........
Charged the battery for several hours and attempted it again.
It would start then die as if fuel starved.
When I finally did manage to get it started as soon as I let my foot off the accelerator car died.

I had to keep rpm to 1400 so car wouldnít die, if cold car died , when warmed no problem with the idle.
Now with engine warmed up itís as if it never happened.......very confused as not sure fuel related.

Itís not a 109 issue as GP light illuminates at each start attempt.
No codes are showing either.
Timing is slightly advanced.
ASV works as should.


It sometimes seem electrical......sometimes fuel....... very weird.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 17:08   #2
eddieleephd
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Fuel Economy: 38mix / 47@70-75
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Sounds like a temp sensor right off. Could be the fuel temp, or the engine temp sensor.
Other thought is timing, however, sensor sounds more appropriate.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 17:10   #3
eddieleephd
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Fuel Economy: 38mix / 47@70-75
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Sometimes fuel sometimes electrical makes me think advance solenoid, which also makes me think temp sensor immediately.

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Old October 21st, 2019, 17:31   #4
csstevej
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Timing is set slightly advance, mechanically it’s spot on.
Wouldn’t the fuel temp set a code?
No codes are being thrown.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 17:36   #5
eddieleephd
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I've seen crazier things, and from what I know fuel temp may not. I've read quite a few change the fuel temp sensor to fix cold start issues posts.
The great part is they're like $15 if I remember. I know the engine temp sensor doesn't necessarily throw a code.
https://www.idparts.com/fuel-tempera...a4-p-1142.html
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Last edited by eddieleephd; October 21st, 2019 at 20:48.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 20:42   #6
WildChild80
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And order a seal kit if you want to get ahead of the inevitable fuel leak when you pop that cover off.

I don't know how the temp sensor fails but a MAF will often times read improperly before throwing a code...

Standby for the posts saying that they've worked on 1 trillion and never seen one fail and yours hasn't either...

Do you see your fuel temp when checking timing? Does it ever reach temp or change numerically

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Old October 22nd, 2019, 10:54   #7
csstevej
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildChild80 View Post
And order a seal kit if you want to get ahead of the inevitable fuel leak when you pop that cover off.

Do you see your fuel temp when checking timing? Does it ever reach temp or change numerically

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Yes I will have to order another kit .
Need to check withVCDS, currently just had rotator cuff surgery so it will be awhile before I can connect.......unless if one of my kids come home to give me a hand ( no pun intended ).
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 11:36   #8
BobnOH
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To rule out temperature sensors, check when engine cold, then with engine hot. A bad sensor will show an out of range type setting. There are several sensors, found here.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 11:25   #9
Powder Hound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csstevej View Post
...
Wouldnít the fuel temp set a code?
...
Not necessarily. About the only thing the ECU could check on something like that is a sensor shorted or open, and it does that. The other would take a little more programming - check the fuel temp against the ambient air temp right at start up and screaming if the fuel is wildly different than the others. But it would need to also retain the memory of when the car last ran, and therefore would it be OK to be hotter or colder than the current level of the other temp sensors (coolant, ambient air temp).

Otherwise, get out your VCDS and see what the fuel temp is. If it reads way off first thing in the morning when it should be cold (i.e. same as ambient air temp) or very warm in those same conditions, then you'd be able to see for yourself that the sensor information doesn't make sense.

Good luck,

PH
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 19:13   #10
csstevej
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Well was able to hook up VCDS to check fuel temp.
Upon first attempt to start could not connect to engine ecu......also no fault codes either.
Upon turning key car immediately fired then died.
Again no codes.
After several attempts was able to get engine ecu to connect..... engine fuel temp was ambient with no issues...... again car fired and immediately died....... again no codes and it’s not the immoblizer.
Been loosing connection to engine ecu randomly.
Only way car would start was if I pumped the pedal and when it fired keep the eng rpm about 1400 rpm when engine is cold......as soon as it drops below 1400 it dies.......once car is started and kept above 1400 run to warm up as soon as blue cool temp light is out I can let the rpm go to normal and runs great.
i can shut the car off and it fires right up with no issues.
I’ve run full auto,scan and no issues pop up.
When car up,to temp fuel temp is good, nothing erratic , I watched it the whole time engine was running till blue coolant temp light went out.
I’m starting to believe it’s elecrical but for the life of me cannot figure out what.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 19:51   #11
eddieleephd
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You said fuel temp, did you check the engine temp reading and did it match?

The reason I am curious about the temp sensor is that you have to give it fuel to keep it running. Makes me think it's not feeling for a cold start and it's just getting cold enough to need it.

I'm not saying it's not electrical, just looking at what I expect to happen. That being said my ecu died not to long ago and it was temp related. I never had issues connecting to it with VCDS, however, it's possible.

The old no start, you probably looked already though
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398

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Last edited by eddieleephd; October 23rd, 2019 at 19:53.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 20:07   #12
WildChild80
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That's a good point, if it don't know it's cold...have you unplugged your temp sensor and tried to start?

So there are 2 sides of the temp sensor as I understand it...one for the gauge and one for the ECU.

At this point you gotta start with a methodical process and prove good parts and go from there, it's weird that you have intermittent connection issues though...now I've talked myself in a circle...

Could a crank sensor be this temp sensitive?

I might have 1 I could send you, it's probably good, from the Carnage found in the block, I'd say it worked...

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Old October 23rd, 2019, 20:10   #13
eddieleephd
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Anything is possible with a temperature dependent intermittent issue. Crank sensor doesn't seem as plausible, though you never know.

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Old October 23rd, 2019, 20:16   #14
WildChild80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
Anything is possible with a temperature dependent intermittent issue. Crank sensor doesn't seem as plausible, though you never know.

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Amen to that, the second you "know" it couldn't do "that" it seems to silently laugh at you.

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Old October 23rd, 2019, 21:45   #15
csstevej
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
You said fuel temp, did you check the engine temp reading and did it match.

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Yes the engine temp read ambient then slowly climbed to 90C steadily.
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