www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 18th, 2012, 20:32   #1
surprisetdi
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: arizona
TDI(s): none yet
Default ATF, transmission fluid as a fuel source??

Ok, in diesel power mag. for trucks some guys are filtering used ATF to 3 microns and running it up to 90% to 10% D2 with no issues reported? I actually met a guy locally that has been running it for 6 years over 100K in his older 2001 powerstroke with no issues.

I am still chicken right now to try it in my truck, injectors/etc are not cheap, even rebuilds.....

Has anyone run this stuff in a TDI? I would be curious if any TDI engines could run on ATF since in Diesel power mag the article say it is very close to D2 in the amount of BTU per gallon it produces?

Please comment on this?
surprisetdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2012, 20:44   #2
40X40
Experienced
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kansas City area, MO
Fuel Economy: TBD, new data forthcoming
Default

It is stuff like this that requires me to advise people to not read that magazine. 'No issues reported' is a hell of a long way from 'good idea' or even 'acceptable technique'.

Pretty much nothing from farming, trucking (big trucks), pickup trucks, aviation, or marine hotrod tricks/techniques transfer well to TDIs.

So do what I did and put away all your hard-won 'knowledge' and start over.

Bill
__________________
www.IHMSA.ORGhttp://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=Xtsxt7xgbpc
If you omit pertinent info from your question, you cannot reasonably expect a good answer.//Not affiliated with any vendors except as a customer.// Wise people lurk more.// I'm not a guru.// 'I got actual real friends in the real world'-T'sTDI/ If you were the only entry, there wasn't a race.// Grammar and spelling really are important, but I don't claim to be good at it.// Typical drivers can't.
40X40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 03:32   #3
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Boise, Idaho
Fuel Economy: Who cares, it's a diesel!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surprisetdi View Post
Ok, in diesel power mag. for trucks some guys are filtering used ATF to 3 microns and running it up to 90% to 10% D2 with no issues reported? I actually met a guy locally that has been running it for 6 years over 100K in his older 2001 powerstroke with no issues.

I am still chicken right now to try it in my truck, injectors/etc are not cheap, even rebuilds.....

Has anyone run this stuff in a TDI? I would be curious if any TDI engines could run on ATF since in Diesel power mag the article say it is very close to D2 in the amount of BTU per gallon it produces?

Please comment on this?
The anti-wear additives that are in ATF and if used in a TDI engine will result severe deposits in the rings, turbo and catalyst that will damage them. Rings can jam up, the turbo will develop deposits that either deform the turbine sufaces causing flow disturbances (Ash formation) or accumulate in the turbine seals leading to a seal blow out and shaft seizure.

The TDI runs significantly hotter than a Power Stroke with a combustion bowl temperature in excess of 4,300F...this is NOT a typo! EGT's at the turbo can exceed 1650F all day long in normal STOCK engines!

ATF is formulated to be used in a TRANSMISSION where there is NO CHANCE for the fluid to get into the motor. These additives used in this application CAN AND WILL CAUSE damage to a motor like a TDI.

Engine oils use a completely different additive package that has to demonstrate it's ability to be consumed by the motor without forming permanent deposits. Newer generation "LOWSAPS" oils (Low Sulfated Ash) have to have unique additives that will not leave any amount of ash in the motor due to the extremely sensitive nature of the engine and its components to ash formation.

To compound this level of stupidity, combine the entrapped wear metals, clutch material on top of the fluids wear additives and you have a recipe to form molten metal in all the places you LEAST want molten metal to form. The wear metals will be vaporized in the combustion bowl and will build up on the piston and rings...and turbine. Once the bowl swirl is disturbed you will be on the verge of a literal melt down of the motor.

Leave the ATF in the transmission, when you flush a transmission, take it to a recycle center for proper disposal.
__________________
Specializing in Injectors for CRI, CR, PD, VE, IDI VW, Audi, MB, SEAT and Skoda Diesel engines.
Offical Importer, Distributor and Installer for Fratelli Bosio, S.R.L. North America
Quotes and Pricing for TDI Injectors
Drivbiwire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 05:48   #4
White Crow
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Maine
TDI(s): 2002 gls tdi
Fuel Economy: 52 all around driving (some city mostly open road
Default

We burned waste ATF in a waste oil furnace at our transmission shop all though it burned much cleaner then motor oil it left a fine red ash lots of it. I have to believe the red was from the dye but the ash was not I don't think I would want to burn it in my TDI as stated before it's full of metal brass,steel, and aluminum that alone can't be good for a pump.
White Crow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 10:04   #5
VWBeamer
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GA
Fuel Economy: 42.79 mpg Woot!
Default

Not to mention ATF has friction modifiers to help clutches get a grip on the drums in a transmission. I don't think these would be good running thru an injector pump or injector.
__________________
800 club. 828.5 miles, 16.33 gallons, 50.79 mpg.
2004 Jetta GLS Wagon TDi-17/22, 2.5 DP.2.5 Exhaust, Stage 5 Malone Tune.3 bar MAP, pd150 Injectors, Ebay FMIC, 1.8T Pancake pipe. Gutted PD100 intake.
VWBeamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 16:27   #6
surprisetdi
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: arizona
TDI(s): none yet
Default thanks for the info...

so its NO on TDI vehicles......Its crazy that they run this stuff in the diesel trucks, I assume it must have some ill effect on the motor? Or is the clutch material, metals, and friction modifiers just sent out via the exhaust or just so small it does not effect the larger diesel engines???
surprisetdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 16:36   #7
Ski in NC
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Fuel Economy: 48-52 typical
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surprisetdi View Post
so its NO on TDI vehicles......Its crazy that they run this stuff in the diesel trucks, I assume it must have some ill effect on the motor? Or is the clutch material, metals, and friction modifiers just sent out via the exhaust or just so small it does not effect the larger diesel engines???
It may or may not be forming deposits inside those larger engines. Only way to tell is to tear it down to inspect, and not many will do that. And if an engine does have a problem, the owner might be too ashamed to admit it all over the 'webs.

I did an experiment running 50/50 used crankcase oil to fuel on an old diesel generator. It stuck the piston rings, dipstick shot out and dumped the crankcase oil. Only clean fuel for my diesels after that.
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI 5sp Stock 201k mi
1981 Rabbit IDI 4sp Sold at 339k mi
1990 S-10 4.3 4wd 5sp 154k mi
1986 VW Pathfinder 1.6 45hp Marine 4700 Hrs
2001 Cummins 8.3 420hp Marine 1660Hrs..REFIT DONE!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 16:37   #8
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Boise, Idaho
Fuel Economy: Who cares, it's a diesel!
Default

it affects the larger motors as well, but hey the engine ran on it, so it must be good for it right?

What it is is stupidity and no regard for system let alone engine durability.
__________________
Specializing in Injectors for CRI, CR, PD, VE, IDI VW, Audi, MB, SEAT and Skoda Diesel engines.
Offical Importer, Distributor and Installer for Fratelli Bosio, S.R.L. North America
Quotes and Pricing for TDI Injectors
Drivbiwire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2012, 05:55   #9
jimtuul
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rochester, NY
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire View Post
The anti-wear additives that are in ATF and if used in a TDI engine will result severe deposits in the rings, turbo and catalyst that will damage them. Rings can jam up, the turbo will develop deposits that either deform the turbine sufaces causing flow disturbances (Ash formation) or accumulate in the turbine seals leading to a seal blow out and shaft seizure.

The TDI runs significantly hotter than a Power Stroke with a combustion bowl temperature in excess of 4,300F...this is NOT a typo! EGT's at the turbo can exceed 1650F all day long in normal STOCK engines!

ATF is formulated to be used in a TRANSMISSION where there is NO CHANCE for the fluid to get into the motor. These additives used in this application CAN AND WILL CAUSE damage to a motor like a TDI.

Engine oils use a completely different additive package that has to demonstrate it's ability to be consumed by the motor without forming permanent deposits. Newer generation "LOWSAPS" oils (Low Sulfated Ash) have to have unique additives that will not leave any amount of ash in the motor due to the extremely sensitive nature of the engine and its components to ash formation.

To compound this level of stupidity, combine the entrapped wear metals, clutch material on top of the fluids wear additives and you have a recipe to form molten metal in all the places you LEAST want molten metal to form. The wear metals will be vaporized in the combustion bowl and will build up on the piston and rings...and turbine. Once the bowl swirl is disturbed you will be on the verge of a literal melt down of the motor.

Leave the ATF in the transmission, when you flush a transmission, take it to a recycle center for proper disposal.

Nicely said!
jimtuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2012, 14:09   #10
ronbros
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin TX
Fuel Economy: 42 mpg us
Default

i have no problem with using ATF,or waste engine oils.

my wife will not ride in the car,PERIOD!!!

the smell is terrible,in comparison to nice deep fried foods.
ronbros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2012, 14:56   #11
deejaaa
Veteran Member
 
deejaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Baytown, Texas
Fuel Economy: JETTA IS FOR SALE!
Default

i personally ran watf in my 93 6.5 diesel truck. after a few thousand miles, deposits formed around the injector area causing it to close to about 2-3 mm. i ran it down to 1 micron. you need to be concerned about cig butts, engine coolant, motor oil, etc. the techs don't care what they throw in it.
i've also ran watf in the same truck and had bad results with that also. i will only run D2 from now on.
__________________
THE 2002 jetta IS for sale. PM FOR DETAILS.
deejaaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ATF fluid, Ate brake fluid, 01M filter & gasket SubseaFB Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 1 September 26th, 2010 10:13
ATF Fluid AlanTDI TDI 101 2 June 21st, 2009 18:46
USED TRANSMISSION FLUID... CAN IT BE USED FOR FUEL buckman Fuels & Lubricants 29 October 12th, 2005 09:11
Synthetic ATF source Herm TDI VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 2 January 7th, 2004 07:49
Auto Transmission Fluid As Fuel Additive? Joe B Fuels & Lubricants 7 December 26th, 2000 01:06


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16909 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 106.68 Kb. compressed to 91.17 Kb. by saving 15.51 Kb. (14.54%)]