www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 13th, 2020, 09:25   #1
AndrewProbasco
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: houston
TDI(s): 2012 Jetta
Default Who makes Group 4 507 Spec oils, 0W-30 or 5w-30 oil?

Help me help my 2012 TDI live forever! Which oils meet the 507 spec and use a group 4 base stock?

This is surprisingly difficult to find out. A lot of them are 505. I just want a true European diesel synthetic in spec.

Bias towards MB1 and AMSOIL, but I don't believe they offer 507 spec.

Thanks!,
Andrew
AndrewProbasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2020, 09:30   #2
Scooby24
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Olathe, KS
Default

Not sure if mobil 1's ESP is a group 4 or not but their ESP x1 0w30 or ESP 5w30 is a 507 spec oil.

I'm personally running the ESP x1 0w30.
Scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2020, 09:31   #3
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: outside St Louis (where it's safe)
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Any 507.00 compliant 5w30 will be perfectly fine. You'll have a dozen other things fail before the engine's internally lubricated parts will anyway. Don't over think it.

I just did a 430k mile service on one. The Pentosin 5w30 SP3 oil seems to be working just fine in it.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2020, 10:52   #4
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

Yeah, this thread on BITOG explains why a straight group iv 507 oil is unnecessary, undesirable, and unavailable.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...(group_IV_or_V
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2020, 11:10   #5
casioqv
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: California
Default

I looked into this too, and the only oil I could find that was for sure an ester based group IV was the RedLine Euro-Series 5w30, but it's not VW approved. Personally I am planning to use M1 ESP until the warranty is up, and then switch to RedLine.
__________________
2009 Touareg 3.0 TDI
casioqv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2020, 04:03   #6
Dannyboy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mb
TDI(s): 2014
Default

Like the guys said dont worry about the group IV rating, your going to see negligible difference between the group III plus and IV VW 507 oils. I use pennzoil Euro LX 0W30 as I'm up north as it's only $32 cdn when in sale for 5 liters. Dont overthink oil, that's why VW certified them for you.
Dannyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2020, 11:51   #7
AndrewProbasco
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: houston
TDI(s): 2012 Jetta
Default

Thanks all. I'm going to go with MB1 ESP.
AndrewProbasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2020, 12:15   #8
casioqv
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyboy View Post
Dont overthink oil, that's why VW certified them for you.

I don't think VW cares about people trying to get a really long lifespan from an old car, or they wouldn't have so many 'lifetime' fluids. Having a motor with a timing chain, I remember the MB diesel guys showing huge differences in timing chain elongation rate depending on different oil base stocks.
__________________
2009 Touareg 3.0 TDI
casioqv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 05:13   #9
Dannyboy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mb
TDI(s): 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
I don't think VW cares about people trying to get a really long lifespan from an old car, or they wouldn't have so many 'lifetime' fluids. Having a motor with a timing chain, I remember the MB diesel guys showing huge differences in timing chain elongation rate depending on different oil base stocks.
Name 1 lifetime fluid in a mk6 other than manual transmission fluid.

Alot of people who run 5w30 or 0w30 myself included have absolutely no issues with the VW507. It was designed for this engine, most 507 oils are borderline 0w40 oils anyway. Also all 2.0 tdis use timing belts.

To OP PP euro Lx 0w30 is made in Germany right on the label, not a group IV but excellent oil , cheap when on sale and readily available. Don't get dragged into thinking group IV oils are going to double the life of your engine, they wont. Their effects are negligible and cost will outweigh the benefits long term
Dannyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 06:34   #10
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: outside St Louis (where it's safe)
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyboy View Post
Name 1 lifetime fluid in a mk6 other than manual transmission fluid.
"Mk6" what?

Jetta? Civic?

All G12+ equipped VAG products have "lifetime" coolant, if that is the answer you were looking for. We just normally change it when we need to open the cooling system for something, but it has no specified change interval. None of them can go "indefinitely" without something related to the cooling system needing attention. I have seen a couple of the later 2.5L 5 cyl go ~200k miles on their original water pumps, though.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 11:36   #11
casioqv
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyboy View Post
Don't get dragged into thinking group IV oils are going to double the life of your engine, they wont.
Why not? Since engines timing chains show about half the elongation rate, and wear metals accumulate in the oil at about half the rate, doubling the engine life seems like a reasonable expectation.

I am basing my opinion mostly on timing chain elongation rate data collected by the late diesel guru Marshall Booth "Der Diesel Doktor". Basically, he owned a sizable collection of 80s MB Diesels and measured the elongation rates between oil changes with Mobil Delvac 1/TDT vs non-synthetic oils. However that data is 20+ years old now, and oils like VW 507 spec didn't exist yet.

I think the importance of chain stretch is general, and doesn't apply just to engines with chains. It's a measure of metallic wear that is precisely quantifiable and can be tracked over time while the engine remains in service, and is a real world test vs things like a 4 ball wear test.


Edit: apparently some VWs can digitally report stretch via VCDS, which could be a valuable way of evaluating these modern oils. I don't know if any diesels can report this, I've only seen this on the VR6: https://www.clubtouareg.com/threads/...h-vcds.185889/
__________________
2009 Touareg 3.0 TDI

Last edited by casioqv; February 19th, 2020 at 11:58.
casioqv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 12:03   #12
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Mobil has Two 1 ESPs. One is a 0w30, the other a 5w30. The 5w30 has a VW 507.00 spec. There are lots of other oils that do, too: Rowe, Liqui-Moly, Total, Pentosin, to name a few. And as an aside, no Amsoil lubricant has any VW certifications.

And I agree with oilhammer on lifetime coolant. My wagon is going on 18 years and 400K+ miles. Cooling system has never been drained. Haven't had any hoses fail, either. I'd probably add power steering fluid to the lifetime list, as well.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 12:51   #13
Kevinski4
 
Kevinski4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nebraska
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
<snip>


And I agree with oilhammer on lifetime coolant. My wagon is going on 18 years and 400K+ miles. Cooling system has never been drained. Haven't had any hoses fail, either. I'd probably add power steering fluid to the lifetime list, as well.

Hmm. Unless you are running the original waterpump, which is normally replaced at each timing belt interval, your cooling system has been drained 4 times. That's assuming you are still running the original short block anyway, could be more than 4 times.
Kevinski4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 13:54   #14
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

How much coolant do you lose in a timing belt change? I believe it's less than half the system's capacity.

But you're right: it has been drained. I'm on my second (well, technically third) long block. Didn't remember that.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2020, 13:54   #15
Scooby24
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Olathe, KS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Mobil has Two 1 ESPs. One is a 0w30, the other a 5w30. The 5w30 has a VW 507.00 spec. There are lots of other oils that do, too: Rowe, Liqui-Moly, Total, Pentosin, to name a few. And as an aside, no Amsoil lubricant has any VW certifications.

And I agree with oilhammer on lifetime coolant. My wagon is going on 18 years and 400K+ miles. Cooling system has never been drained. Haven't had any hoses fail, either. I'd probably add power steering fluid to the lifetime list, as well.
Per Mobil 1, their 0w30 has the 507 Spec as well.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-esp

Quote:
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 has the following builder approvals:

MB-Approval 229.31
MB-Approval 229.51
MB-Approval 229.52
PORSCHE C30
VW 504 00
VW 507 00
Scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New VW Branded 0W-30 507 Oil on Sale willafb VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +) 12 March 8th, 2020 13:11
0W-30 VW 507.00 Oil Hitting the Market JBell Fuels & Lubricants 71 October 17th, 2016 07:30
FS: Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP 507 Spec Oil/MEM, TN CRTDI Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 7 February 3rd, 2013 08:08
506.01 0W-30 vs Other 5W-40 PD Oils Kier Fuels & Lubricants 83 September 22nd, 2006 13:54
0W-30, 5W-30, & 10W-30 Oils Combine Efficiency & Wear Protection Turbo Steve Fuels & Lubricants 40 January 8th, 2001 14:47


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2020, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19066 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 130.82 Kb. compressed to 109.72 Kb. by saving 21.10 Kb. (16.13%)]