TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
No - the by pass is every other - if its a Amsoil filter you have access to a Amsoil expert - AndyH you can write him and he can more details then you will want oor need to know. You need not get every ounce out when your engine is healthy and your is. The full flow filter has twice the life that we use them - in Europe they go 15k min.
 

Nellie

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Location
Los Angeles, California
TDI
Jetta Wagon GLS, '05
wjdell said:
No - the by pass is every other - if its a Amsoil filter you have access to a Amsoil expert - AndyH you can write him and he can more details then you will want oor need to know. You need not get every ounce out when your engine is healthy and your is. The full flow filter has twice the life that we use them - in Europe they go 15k min.
Thanks for your response. I've got the Amsoil filter, but it probably holds a liter of oil that didn't get changed. My guess is that it's not a big deal, but I really don't know. I'll try and contact AndyH. thanks.
 

highender

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Location
Northern California
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
Nellie said:
Thanks for your response. I've got the Amsoil filter, but it probably holds a liter of oil that didn't get changed. My guess is that it's not a big deal, but I really don't know. I'll try and contact AndyH. thanks.
Just changed my oil after 13,060 miles with DG bypass oil filter. I unscrewed the whole amsoil filter, then used the oil extractor to remove most of the stuff inside the filter..... there was a black clump inside that was removed. I do not think this will significantly increase the oil change interval...but if you want to have a more complete oil change, you may want to try this....
 

highender

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Location
Northern California
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
13,063 miles on oil and DG bypass oil filter

I ran Shell Rotella 5W-40 oil , and ran it for 13,063 miles.

It showed :

Iron........60
silicon.......9
copper.....5
lead.........7
calcium....3393


SUS viscosity at 210 deg.....71.7
viscosity at 100 deg C.........13.41
both viscosities were outside of norm...


I posted some oil analysis results about 2 or 3 months ago (?) with this same batch....and Blackstone said that Nitration and oxidation levels were high...and thus protective properties were decreasing...

Now, with this batch, Blackstone noted that silicone & lead were elevated...maybe due to dirt getting into the airfilter....which I just fixed. Blackstone then suggested that if lead could be controlled, then I could use the oil for more extended intervals.

what do you guys think ? Should I have waited on the oil change...and continued to use the higher oxidized oil...with high lead and iron content ?


I just changed out the oil and collected this oil sample for analysis. I put in Elf CRV 0W-30....
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Rotella T 5w40 isn't meant to go much past 10K in our cars.
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
If the viscosity was outside the norm - then you answered your own question.
Is this the only UOA - its hard to judge by one. If you have more then your next few OCI's on CRV will be interesting UOA's. Some have shown great success, but most do not. Good Luck.
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Bob_Fout said:
Rotella T 5w40 isn't meant to go much past 10K in our cars.
combining the
  1. extra liter of oil capacity and "super-filtration" a bypass adds with
  2. a full syntheic CI4+ oil
  3. in a VE TDI
according to someone's theory, optimal oil performance over 20k+ OCIs should be possible.

however, i have not seen any bypass UOAs that deliver on this promise.

if it were my TDI - i would send a sample to the lab after the CRV has been in for 5k to see how it's doing. what was the soot concentration on this UOA?
 

gator 69

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Location
HENRICO NC
TDI
2005 jetta
UOA after 120,000 of wrong oil.

  • Let me defend myself first. I am new to this , I am but only so hard headed. 1 I live over 100 miles from a vw dealer. 2 When I bought the car I asked the service manager what type of oil they use he showed me a qt container of castrol syntec 5w 40. 3. I read the maintenance schedule that came with the car it' s my fault that I did not catch that the bottle did not say 505.01 but 505.00. Since I found this forum I have learned alot and I thank you , so here it goes. aluminum = 2​
  • calcium = 1037​
  • chromium = 1​
  • copper = 1​
  • iron = 23​
  • lead = 0​
  • molybdenum = 9​
  • phosphururs = 655​
  • silicon = 3​
  • sodium = 2​
  • tin = 0​
  • zinc = 840​
  • those are labeled as wear metals​
  • the following oil condition​
  • soot = 24​
  • oxidation =10​
  • nitration = 10​
  • sulfation = 19​
  • water = 0​
  • antifreeze = 0​
  • fuel = 0​
  • viscosity@100c = 14.2​
  • particle qualifying index = 22​
  • no action required,normal readings.​
  • sample taken at 120,077 on engine​
  • 9,205 miles on oil​
  • oil was changed to elf excllium did​
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
gator 69 said:
[*]
iron = 23​

[*]
soot = 24​
[*]
oxidation =10​
[*]
nitration = 10​

[*]
viscosity@100c = 14.2​

[*]
sample taken at 120,077 on engine​
[*]
9,205 miles on oil​
[*]
oil was changed to elf excllium did​
Your engine appears to be in excellent running condition. Only 24 ppm of soot after 9205 miles? That's outstanding. Only 23 ppm of iron? Excellent. Viscosity of 14.2? A little high but still in the 40-weight range.
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
Seems as though the dealer was OK with plain old 5W40 Castrol - if 120k of the wrong oil is giving you this service, you are fine. I still and always will believe that the .01 is emisions driven, not cam lobe related. Its is the same I have found all over, not just your 505.00, but many PD's have lived their whole life on 505.00 and going strong, Rotella T also. Dont be suprised if the Fe goes up with Elf DID.
 

gator 69

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Location
HENRICO NC
TDI
2005 jetta
wrong oil

This oil sample is the last of castrol syntec 5w 40, .On the next oil change I will take another sample. THANKS FOR THE REPLIES.
 

highender

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Location
Northern California
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
SUNRG said:
combining the
  1. extra liter of oil capacity and "super-filtration" a bypass adds with
  2. a full syntheic CI4+ oil
  3. in a VE TDI
according to someone's theory, optimal oil performance over 20k+ OCIs should be possible.

YEs, and I believe that some on this forum ( in the Bypass oil thread) have said that their oil was good after 15,000 miles...and more.




if it were my TDI - i would send a sample to the lab after the CRV has been in for 5k to see how it's doing. what was the soot concentration on this UOA?

I will do that....thanks for the advice.

as to soot, I called Blackstone, and they said that they did not measure quantitatively the soot......but used the visual inspection method...and mine had a thin layer...but still clear enough to see through the beaker . I am not sure what that means...but according to them....the soot level was apparently not a concern.


Also, I may have incorrectly labeled the oil as 5W-30....so viscosity seemed off . They corrected it to 5w-40 yesterday....so actually the measured viscosities at 210 F and 100 C were all within normal range...


Conclusion was that Iron seemed a bit high at 60...so were lead and silicone....probably due to air filter....

I changed out the air filter...and will do another oil analysis in 6 months....
 

pianodirt

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Eastern WA
TDI
2000 Jetta
My first UOA - comments, feedback welcomed

I'm glad I decided to just change the oil when I drew the sample. It looks I just ran the oil too long. I meant to do a sample before 12k miles, but I never did. Is there something I could do (minus an oil bypass system) to improve OCIs?

Also, these bearings mentioned in the report, is this something involved in an engine overhaul, or a relatively inexpensive replacement?

 
Last edited:

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
Its hard telling with no history, what was the previous interval, 12k. A 2000 is not limited to 505.01 oils. There are more robust oils that you can use. I would shorten the next interval to 5 or 6k and test again. See if things clean up and get lower numbers.
 

TornadoRed

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Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
pianodirt said:
I'm glad I decided to just change the oil when I drew the sample. It looks I just ran the oil too long. I meant to do a sample before 12k miles, but I never did. Is there something I could do (minus an oil bypass system) to improve OCIs?

Also, these bearings mentioned in the report, is this something involved in an engine overhaul, or a relatively inexpensive replacement?
The lead number doesn't look good, but iron is okay for an extended OCI. The viscosity looks okay, the insolubles (soot) looks okay at 0.5%.

I think you should just plan on doing a 10k-mile OCI and test again to see if the lead comes down. There's not enough poor data here to cause concern.

Lugging the engine (revs too low in a high gear) can put stress on crank bearings. Keep your revs up.
 

pianodirt

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Eastern WA
TDI
2000 Jetta
wjdell said:
Its hard telling with no history, what was the previous interval, 12k. A 2000 is not limited to 505.01 oils. There are more robust oils that you can use. I would shorten the next interval to 5 or 6k and test again. See if things clean up and get lower numbers.
TB was changed at 120k. Original nozzles but I will be changing soon to the .205's. The dealer of the previous owner had used Castrol Syntec, which I never did gather clearly from this forum if that was the wrong oil for this engine. I see in the maintenance history they list using Castrol Syntec and then later there's a note saying "customer requested full-synthetic oil to be used." And they still used the Castrol, which I understand isn't a true full-synthetic. I don't know if that comment was just so the customer could read he had been heard.

I believe I previously did and OC at 9k miles. I just bought a bunch of the Elf Excellium DID and will keep that in mind when I run out of this stuff.

TornadoRed said:
The lead number doesn't look good, but iron is okay for an extended OCI. The viscosity looks okay, the insolubles (soot) looks okay at 0.5%.

I think you should just plan on doing a 10k-mile OCI and test again to see if the lead comes down. There's not enough poor data here to cause concern.

Lugging the engine (revs too low in a high gear) can put stress on crank bearings. Keep your revs up.
I've not lugged it (thanks to this forum), I keep the revs at 2k or higher. I bought the car at 120k miles and I think the previous owner liked to lug it though.

Thanks guys for the input. I think I'll try another sample at 7k miles on the oil.
 

scurvy

Good Ol' Boy
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Chicago IL USA
TDI
2006 Golf
pianodirt said:
The dealer of the previous owner had used Castrol Syntec, which I never did gather clearly from this forum if that was the wrong oil for this engine.
Castrol Syntec 5W40 is an acceptable oil for your 2000 Jetta.
 

VDubsoon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Atlanta, GA
I just did my first oil analysis using Predictive Maintenance Services for baseline purposes. Car had 141712 miles on it know and will be installing a Dieselgeek bypass on the next oil change. Oil is D1 5W40 with 10000 miles on it.


Iron 13
Chromium 1
Lead 2
Copper 2
Tin 0
Aluminum 4
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 4
Boron 32
Sodium 3
Potassium 5
Magnesium 452
Calcium 2383
Phosphorus 1463
Zinc 1586
Molybdenum 0

Fuel A
Water <0.1
Glycol N
Visc (100C) 14.2

BN 9.70
Soot <0.1
Oxidation 8.00
Nitration 5.00

Comments: Wear and contamination levels appear normal. No corrective action indicated by tests performed.
 

Brock_from_WI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Green Bay, WI USA
TDI
2003 wagon
I am on my second change of Elf CRV. They said my TBN numbers looked low, not sure what that is? The last two changes I obtained my samples correctly, I had been just dumping some of the drained oil back in the sample bottles (including the filter oil) and that looks to have been skewing the results. Anyway here is what I have, thoughts?

http://www.uwgb.edu/nevermab/tdi/oil-TDI-70k.pdf
 

silverbox

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Location
Halifax Nova Scotia
TDI
jetta wagon 2003 silver
VDubsoon nice numbers! are you going to extend to 15,000 mi?
I assume by D1 you mean Delvac 1.
When you do change oil and install the DG bypass are you going to use D1 ESP?
 

VDubsoon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Atlanta, GA
I think 15k would be an easy push. My initial thoughts, prior to getting these numbers, was just to change at 10k (total of 150k), install the bypass and sample at 10k (or 160k). Car has been on Delvac 1 since the first oil change at 5000 miles and done every 10000 by the book. Only mods are DG race pipe. I really wanted to have the option of an Amsoil EaO absolute efficiency oil filter at the next oil change, but that might have to wait.

I think I will sample again at 150k, add the bypass and the extra quart of oil and keep going. If my next UOA is similar, I will sample at 12k or 15k after the bypass is installed.

My next contemplated filtration upgrade... in tank lift pump + 30u Stanadyne FM100 + Cat 2u as a polishing filter.

All this should allow my filter change intervals to be 25-30k for fuel and oil (maybe more).
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Brock_from_WI said:
I am on my second change of Elf CRV. They said my TBN numbers looked low, not sure what that is?

TBN = total base number, a measure of how much anti-acid additive is remaining in the oil. In some virgin HDEO it is about 12, in virgin PCEO about 7-12. Your last sample shows a TBN of 1.32 -- it has no acid-fighting additive left.

Take a look at Oxidation, 46.00 -- that is a measure of acidity, and is right at the upper level of acceptability.

Sodium and potassium are high, but not excessively high.

The wear metals look like the engine is still breaking-in -- higher than normal levels of aluminum, copper, lead, and chromium. Nothing really high, but a little worrisome after 70k miles.

The previous sample, taken after 8500 miles, looked okay except for those trace metals. This time you tried to extend to 12k miles and it was just too long. The numbers are not a lot worse, but with such a low TBN there is no way that oil would have been good for even another 1k or 2k miles -- it was just worn out.

But why have those trace metals been high all along? What oil were you using before the Elf 0w30? And what are you going to use in the future? Whatever it is, you should probably change it more frequently.
 

Brock_from_WI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Green Bay, WI USA
TDI
2003 wagon
Red thanks! I have used Delvac 1 since the 5k change, and then at 58k I went to Elf crv and just did a change again with Elf crv at 70k. I will change at 10k this time, I was just trying to get back on the 10k change interval and though Elf was good for the 12k. I have to admit the way I used to sample was bad. Before the 58k sample I would just drain all the oil including the oil filter and let it drip out in the drain pan. Then afterwards I would dump some from the pan in to the sample container. I never thought about the fact that it sample contained everything from the filter and heck even the some left over from the other car. Now I sample it by sucking enough out to fill the bottle then drain everything else.

Is the Elf full tech a better oil for the ALH engine? Should I just go back to Delvac 1?

I have to say I have seen about a 5mpg improvement since I went to Elf crv, but maybe because it is to thin and not protecting enough?

I should add my commute isn’t the best for the car either, 11 miles one way at 35 mph so it often doesn’t warm up. About twice a week it gets a good workout, but to and from work probably isn’t the best.
 

dhdenney

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Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
In my non expert opinion, I believe I would just continue with the Delvac.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Brock, your fuel mileage is already excellent, certainly well above average. I think you should concentrate on taking good care of the engine, not try to eke out another 3-5 mpg using a very expensive low-viscosity oil like the Elf 0w30.

Here's the rest of my UOA history. The discussion is pretty much complete in the first 20 posts, after that it digresses rapidly into irrelevance.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198027
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
TornadoRed said:
Brock, your fuel mileage is already excellent, certainly well above average. I think you should concentrate on taking good care of the engine, not try to eke out another 3-5 mpg using a very expensive low-viscosity oil like the Elf 0w30.

Here's the rest of my UOA history. The discussion is pretty much complete in the first 20 posts, after that it digresses rapidly into irrelevance.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198027
That link pretty well sums it up. I don't see how people are still wanting to use CRV after people kick out UOA's like that. I was leary of the 506.01 from the get go and everyone thought I was nuts. I was inclined to believe that it was going to be good after everyone's persuasion but I should have went with my gut. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=125696
 

wjdell

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Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
A vendor just posted that CRV is being dropped and says the reason was excessive wear.
 
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