Rear brakes - newbie questions

amit9 · Dec 13, 2018

Hi:

I want to service my passenger's side rear brakes - take the slider pins out, clean, re-lube, and put everything back together.

Background - Past few days, when I'm braking at slow speeds, sometimes I'm hearing a grinding/scraping noise coming from the passenger rear side. A quick search on the forums indicated that the slider pins may be sticking, and need to be cleaned, re-lubed and re-installed. The pads and rotors have about 50K/3 years on them, and from what I can see on the outer side, the pads are still OK. The inner ones may be worn out differently, and I will find out when I take the wheel off.

I have never done any brake work myself, so I have a couple of questions before I attempt it.

1. Does the caliper piston need to be re-wound in my case? I think not, since I am not changing the pads.
2. Do the 13mm bolts need to be torqued using a torque wrench, or is it OK to just use a regular socket wrench and re-tighten them to a snug fit?
3. Is it OK to swap the inner and outer pads, and re-install?

Thanks.

2.2TDI · Dec 13, 2018

amit9 said:
Hi:

I want to service my passenger's side rear brakes - take the slider pins out, clean, re-lube, and put everything back together.

Background - Past few days, when I'm braking at slow speeds, sometimes I'm hearing a grinding/scraping noise coming from the passenger rear side. A quick search on the forums indicated that the slider pins may be sticking, and need to be cleaned, re-lubed and re-installed. The pads and rotors have about 50K/3 years on them, and from what I can see on the outer side, the pads are still OK. The inner ones may be worn out differently, and I will find out when I take the wheel off.

I have never done any brake work myself, so I have a couple of questions before I attempt it.

1. Does the caliper piston need to be re-wound in my case? I think not, since I am not changing the pads.
2. Do the 13mm bolts need to be torqued using a torque wrench, or is it OK to just use a regular socket wrench and re-tighten them to a snug fit?
3. Is it OK to swap the inner and outer pads, and re-install?

Thanks.

Given how notoriously bad mk4 calipers were and still are, I would look to see if the caliper isn't partially seized based on what you're describing. A good indication is uneven pad wear, which you can easily check without even having to take the caliper off as there is an open section on the caliper where you can get a decent look at the pad thickness on each side.

Of course there are other methods to check for a seized caliper but this one would be the easiest. Just take the tire off and have a look

amit9 · Dec 14, 2018

2.2TDI said:
Given how notoriously bad mk4 calipers were and still are, I would look to see if the caliper isn't partially seized based on what you're describing. A good indication is uneven pad wear, which you can easily check without even having to take the caliper off as there is an open section on the caliper where you can get a decent look at the pad thickness on each side.

Of course there are other methods to check for a seized caliper but this one would be the easiest. Just take the tire off and have a look

Sure, thanks for the suggestion, will be examining the pads on either side. I think the caliper should be OK, given that the passenger side wheel area around the caliper is cool to touch when I checked it after driving and hard braking. The drivers side rear caliper did seize up a while back and the wheel got hot even under normal driving and there was a burning smell, so I had it replaced.

Any response for the questions?

imo000 · Dec 14, 2018

1. Not if you leave the same pads in the same location.
2. Should be torqued if you don’t have experience with tightening bolts. Otherwise
make it good n’ tight.
3. Yes but caliper piston might need to be pushed back.

Usually if you hear a grinding noise during braking it means the brake pad backing plate is touching the rotor and the pad is completely worn. If any of the pads are unevenly worn, I would replace the entire set or at least that corner. Pads are cheap especially if you buy it at RockAuto. You already know about the slider pins but if they are sticking, it might be because the caliper is corroding and the hole that the rubber sleeve sits in is slowly closing up. No amount of lubrication is going to fix this. You will need to remove the rubber sleeve and using a small round file, file out all the corrosion until the slider pin freely moves in the rubber sleeve otherwise the new pads will not retract and wear out quickly.

amit9 · Dec 14, 2018

imo000 said:
1. Not if you leave the same pads in the same location.
2. Should be torqued if you don’t have experience with tightening bolts. Otherwise
make it good n’ tight.
3. Yes but caliper piston might need to be pushed back.

Usually if you hear a grinding noise during braking it means the brake pad backing plate is touching the rotor and the pad is completely worn. If any of the pads are unevenly worn, I would replace the entire set or at least that corner. Pads are cheap especially if you buy it at RockAuto. You already know about the slider pins but if they are sticking, it might be because the caliper is corroding and the hole that the rubber sleeve sits in is slowly closing up. No amount of lubrication is going to fix this. You will need to remove the rubber sleeve and using a small round file, file out all the corrosion until the slider pin freely moves in the rubber sleeve otherwise the new pads will not retract and wear out quickly.

Thanks for the responses, will attempt it this weekend.

2.2TDI · Dec 14, 2018

amit9 said:
Sure, thanks for the suggestion, will be examining the pads on either side. I think the caliper should be OK, given that the passenger side wheel area around the caliper is cool to touch when I checked it after driving and hard braking. The drivers side rear caliper did seize up a while back and the wheel got hot even under normal driving and there was a burning smell, so I had it replaced.

Any response for the questions?

A seized caliper won't always create a hot wheel... I've seen it happen. Anyways you can do what imo said but I would still advise checking the caliper if you're going to be taking apart the brakes, you're there anyways it's just one extra step

amit9 · Dec 16, 2018

This morning I took the passenger rear wheel off and checked the pads on both sides of the rotor, from the rear around the caliper. The thickness is low on both sides, and both looked evenly worn out from what I could see. There's still pad material left on both sides, but low. I did try my best to open the bolts, but they would not budge. So just to avoid any damage, I didn't proceed further. I compared the thickness of these pads to the other (drivers side rear) wheel and those are low as well. So new rear pads are needed soon. The rear pads and rotors were replaced 3 years back and I've only put around 50-60K on them. These are TRW Cotec pads and Zimmerman coated rotors. The rotors still look good. My previous no-name set of rear pads and rotors lasted me 8+ years and my driving has been the same, so I'm a bit surprised with this branded set of pads...

Both rear wheels did move freely and for about the same range, when I rotated them when they were raised up, so that's a good sign.

Wingnut · Dec 17, 2018

Could be the backing plate. Common for them to rust out, causing them to rub against the rotor as its turning. I had to replace both my backing plates a few years ago when I did my rear bearings.

imo000 · Dec 17, 2018

Time to get some no name pads.

Uberhare · Dec 17, 2018

imo000 said:
Time to get some no name pads.

That depends - if you want your brakes to work well or not. Most "dust free" or long lasting pads also have low performance to achieve this.

Jetta_Pilot · Dec 17, 2018

imo000 said:
Time to get some no name pads.

Totally agree, with certain parts such as a rotor there really is no difference. It's basically just a metal disk made more expensive by having a "brand" name attached.

I only did one brake job on my former 2002 Jetta and I bought 4 drilled rotors off Kijiji for about $ 100.00 as well as pads online. Unfortunately the front pads were the wrong ones which I found out when I was thousands of km from home.
Purchased a set of front pads (something golden the name) at an Autozone store in Mexico. Best bloody pads I ever seen. NO black dust ever !

Brakes were still going strong when I traded the car.

In another thread, someone wants to know which are the best wheel bolts to buy? Nothing wrong with Chinese bolts, they build millions of cars in China including BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. They all have Chinese wheel bolts on them!

amit9 · Dec 17, 2018

Wingnut said:
Could be the backing plate. Common for them to rust out, causing them to rub against the rotor as its turning. I had to replace both my backing plates a few years ago when I did my rear bearings.

Noted Nigel, will check when replacing...thanks.

amit9 · Dec 17, 2018

imo000 said:
Time to get some no name pads.

Jetta_Pilot said:
Totally agree, with certain parts such as a rotor there really is no difference. It's basically just a metal disk made more expensive by having a "brand" name attached.

I only did one brake job on my former 2002 Jetta and I bought 4 drilled rotors off Kijiji for about $ 100.00 as well as pads online. Unfortunately the front pads were the wrong ones which I found out when I was thousands of km from home.
Purchased a set of front pads (something golden the name) at an Autozone store in Mexico. Best bloody pads I ever seen. NO black dust ever !

Brakes were still going strong when I traded the car.

In another thread, someone wants to know which are the best wheel bolts to buy? Nothing wrong with Chinese bolts, they build millions of cars in China including BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. They all have Chinese wheel bolts on them!

Yep, agreed, will be going in for those this time...

Jetta_Pilot · Dec 17, 2018

Just be aware that for instance I did one wheel a day because of the heat as well as I found it a frustrating job. You also need a special tool to turn the pistons back in. Make sure there is no one around to hear your foul language.

amit9 · Dec 17, 2018

Jetta_Pilot said:
Just be aware that for instance I did one wheel a day because of the heat as well as I found it a frustrating job. You also need a special tool to turn the pistons back in. Make sure there is no one around to hear your foul language.

Sure Rudy

...thanks

Windex · Dec 17, 2018

Do you have the tool to turn the pistons back in? Can be a frustrating job without.

I have one you can borrow, but I'm a bit west of you now...

2.2TDI · Dec 17, 2018

Jetta_Pilot said:
Totally agree, with certain parts such as a rotor there really is no difference. It's basically just a metal disk made more expensive by having a "brand" name attached.

I only did one brake job on my former 2002 Jetta and I bought 4 drilled rotors off Kijiji for about $ 100.00 as well as pads online. Unfortunately the front pads were the wrong ones which I found out when I was thousands of km from home.
Purchased a set of front pads (something golden the name) at an Autozone store in Mexico. Best bloody pads I ever seen. NO black dust ever !

Brakes were still going strong when I traded the car.

In another thread, someone wants to know which are the best wheel bolts to buy? Nothing wrong with Chinese bolts, they build millions of cars in China including BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. They all have Chinese wheel bolts on them!

While there may not be massive differences for normal people in day to day driving, it's certainly there. I asked over the summer what the difference between rotor brands are and I actually learned something regarding the cheaper brand stuff from wingnut. Have a look here

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=491719

I've put el chepo pads and rotors on previous cars and can't say I've felt a difference or had a problem... I'm just saying I wouldn't advocate and say the cheap stuff is in the same league as the brand name stuff

Also, I would never buy safety critical parts like brakes or wheel bolts from the likes of aliexpress... You're just asking for trouble. There's a difference between manufacturing in country x by a brand name, and then buying no name crap from country x

amit9 · Dec 18, 2018

Windex said:
Do you have the tool to turn the pistons back in? Can be a frustrating job without.

I have one you can borrow, but I'm a bit west of you now...

Hey Adam, thanks for the offer. I have a co-worker who is loaning me that tool.

imo000 · Dec 18, 2018

Just because something is more expensive it doesn't mean it's better or "safer" or that Made in China is crap or unsafe. They make those pads and rotors to the spec that the vendor wants it. They can make low quality or high quality in China. If you are so concerned about safety critical parts, are you running the most expensive tries money can buy?

2.2TDI · Dec 18, 2018

imo000 said:
Just because something is more expensive it doesn't mean it's better or "safer" or that Made in China is crap or unsafe. They make those pads and rotors to the spec that the vendor wants it. They can make low quality or high quality in China. If you are so concerned about safety critical parts, are you running the most expensive tries money can buy?

If you're responding to what I said, go reread what I wrote carefully and then comment

And for what it's worth, I wouldn't put garbage aeolus or whatever the hell the next no name crap tire that's 50 bucks a pop new on my car... Like I said, I don't entirely believe in brand name but it does matter, more so for certain things then for others

Jetta_Pilot · Dec 18, 2018

2.2TDI said:
And for what it's worth, I wouldn't put garbage aeolus or whatever the hell the next no name crap tire that's 50 bucks a pop new on my car..

There is one hell of a difference between cheap tires and some disk made of metal.

steve6 · Dec 18, 2018

2.2TDI said:
If you're responding to what I said, go reread what I wrote carefully and then comment

And for what it's worth, I wouldn't put garbage aeolus or whatever the hell the next no name crap tire that's 50 bucks a pop new on my car... Like I said, I don't entirely believe in brand name but it does matter, more so for certain things then for others

tell me where I can get brand new tires for $50! I'm in

2.2TDI · Dec 18, 2018

Jetta_Pilot said:
There is one hell of a difference between cheap tires and some disk made of metal.

Sure. Believe what you wish, just don't advocate something to someone else based on an arm chair opinion...that was my point.

2.2TDI · Dec 18, 2018

steve6 said:
tell me where I can get brand new tires for $50! I'm in

Go on Kijiji, plenty of shops selling garbage tires starting at 50 and up...maybe 15 inch won't be 50 but you get the idea.

Www.canadawheels.ca

These guys sell garbage 15s starting at 71 for winters and 77 for all season...

What happened to this forum... The minute you used to mention no name brands you would automatically get roasted for using sub par parts on a VW...this thread seems to be going the opposite way

steve6 · Dec 18, 2018

2.2TDI said:
Go on Kijiji, plenty of shops selling garbage tires starting at 50 and up...maybe 15 inch won't be 50 but you get the idea.

Www.canadawheels.ca

These guys sell garbage 15s starting at 71 for winters and 77 for all season...

What happened to this forum... The minute you used to mention no name brands you would automatically get roasted for using sub par parts on a VW...this thread seems to be going the opposite way

71 isnt 50! I bought 4 $80 ish tires back in june/july. No issues. Around the engine I tend to stick to OEM parts. Brakes, tires, exhaust, suspension.. not much differences to me so its about price.

2.2TDI · Dec 18, 2018

steve6 said:
71 isnt 50! I bought 4 $80 ish tires back in june/july. No issues. Around the engine I tend to stick to OEM parts. Brakes, tires, exhaust, suspension.. not much differences to me so its about price.

You just have to do a little digging, I have found 50 dollar tires before on Kijiji. Still wouldn't buy them but to each their own

imo000 · Dec 19, 2018

What is so garbage about cheap tires?

P2B · Dec 19, 2018

Wingnut said:
Could be the backing plate. Common for them to rust out, causing them to rub against the rotor as its turning. I had to replace both my backing plates a few years ago when I did my rear bearings.

The rear backing plates on our wagon rusted away completely years ago. I will replace them if it ever needs wheel bearings, but I consider them largely cosmetic.

Simon

Rear brakes - newbie questions

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg