Front wheel hub triple square bolt torque value

Vipervnm

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2006 Jetta TDI Package 1
I have a Bentley manual and for the life of me cannot find where it addresses these bolts. I've replaced his entire suspension and cannot find this one value. Friend of mine nailed a pothole and the front driver's bearing has play. We are replacing it and this is the one piece of the puzzle that's missing. What torque value do the four triple square bolts require?

Thanks!:D

Because someone's going to say "SEARCH", I've been searching for about an hour and can't find this info. I found dozens of threads filled with people telling other people to search or that how-to's exist but I can't find them. If it were me I would have linked those people to the thread with the answer or not posted at all, but whatever. Now there a just dozens of useless threads clogging the search that everyone holds so dear. Please do your part to keep this from becoming one of them;)
 

theinternot

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2012 Passat TDI SE
Are you talking about the axle bolt or the 4 bolts that hold on the wheel bearing hub assembly?

I found this for the axle bolt:

Here are the specs:
Hex: 180Nm+180deg
XZN (triple square): 70Nm+90deg

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=264539

post #3

------

4 axle hub assembly bolts:

Install:

1. Install wheel bearing/hub assembly. Torque the 4 triple square bolts to 80 ft lbs.
2. Put some grease inside the wheel hub teeth to help the axle slide in easily in to the hub.
3. Slide the axle into the hub. It may take some wiggling but it should slide in nice and easy once the teeth guides are matched up.

4. Install the axle bolt and tighten it enough to secure the axle but do not fully tighten.

5. Mount the brake calipers. Torque to 140 ft lbs
6. Mount the rotor. Torque bolt to 35 ft lbs.
7. Tighten axle bolt to about 120 ft lbs.
8. Install wheel. Lower car.
9. Tighten axle bolt to 148 ft lbs.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110256


Hopefully this will help.

I have a Bentley manual and for the life of me cannot find where it addresses these bolts. I've replaced his entire suspension and cannot find this one value. Friend of mine nailed a pothole and the front driver's bearing has play. We are replacing it and this is the one piece of the puzzle that's missing. What torque value do the four triple square bolts require?

Thanks!:D

Because someone's going to say "SEARCH", I've been searching for about an hour and can't find this info. I found dozens of threads filled with people telling other people to search or that how-to's exist but I can't find them. If it were me I would have linked those people to the thread with the answer or not posted at all, but whatever. Now there a just dozens of useless threads clogging the search that everyone holds so dear. Please do your part to keep this from becoming one of them;)
 
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Vipervnm

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You rock! Thanks so much! Still can't find it in Bentley. Must be in some other section I'm not expecting it to be in.
 

milkyjoe01

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Aug 4, 2014
Location
UK
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Audi A3 2.0 TDi
Can anyone shed some light as to the correct torque setting & procedure for tightening the front hub to axle BOLT (not a nut) on a 2004 Audi A3 2.0 TDi. It is a genuine Audi bolt, the 12 point, triple square bolt with no splines underneath the bolt flange, it's just smooth. I've read about so many different methods & torque settings it makes my head spin!! Some of the advice given was tighten to 200 Nm & immediately after tighten it an extra 90 deg. another opinion was tighten to 70 Nm & an extra 60 deg. & also slackening off the bolt then tightening a further 180 deg & even 1 that says torque to 200 Nm slacken by 90 deg. you then have to rotate the wheel 1 complete turn & then torque to 90Nm & then a further 90 deg.!!!! HELP!!!! Some of these answers came from the Bentley manual & some from an Audi tech!!! Can you give me your answers in newton metres please. Thanks.
 

meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I just changed my axle. (on an 09 vw tdi)

literature I found was specific. Bentley and alldata DIY were consistent.

Axle bolts with hex nut get 200 NM plus 180 degrees.

Axle bolts with 12 point bolt get 70 NM plus 90 degrees

Marty from Raxles.com (who provided the replacement axle shaft assy) said that AUDI updated the spec for a new bolt/threadlock to 200 NM plus 90 degrees.

I had to stand on a 24 inch long breaker bar to get close to the 90 degrees after putting 200 NM on. a few weeks ago it was not anywhere close to that hard to get the quarter turn after 70 NM.

All that being said, I am not sure if the 04 is the same.
 

meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I have a Bentley manual and for the life of me cannot find where it addresses these bolts. I've replaced his entire suspension and cannot find this one value. Friend of mine nailed a pothole and the front driver's bearing has play. We are replacing it and this is the one piece of the puzzle that's missing. What torque value do the four triple square bolts require?

Thanks!:D

Because someone's going to say "SEARCH", I've been searching for about an hour and can't find this info. I found dozens of threads filled with people telling other people to search or that how-to's exist but I can't find them. If it were me I would have linked those people to the thread with the answer or not posted at all, but whatever. Now there a just dozens of useless threads clogging the search that everyone holds so dear. Please do your part to keep this from becoming one of them;)

my Bentley manual (Covers 2005 to 2009-10 Jetta) has a nice diagram on page 40-19 it has an exploded view of the Front Wheel Bearing Assembley

item 15 is the triple square bolt (4 each) that hold the hub/bearing to the wheel bearing housing.

spec is 70 NM (52 ft lb) plus 1/4 turn (90 degrees) always replace.

of course, the same diagram has torque spec for the axle bolt that does not match that provided in the axle part of the manual.
 
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milkyjoe01

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Aug 4, 2014
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UK
TDI
Audi A3 2.0 TDi
Its the centre bolt that holds the driveshaft to the hub that I'm after the correct torque procedure & settings not the 4 hub retaining bolts. Its quite a big 12 point triple square bolt bought from Audi just a week ago. If the difference between the figures I've read was small then I wouldn't be that concerned, I'd just average them out but when I'm hearing 1 setting of 300Nm & then someone else says 70Nm that is quite a difference!! So would you advise 70Nm & then a further 90' or the 200Nm & a further 180 'cuz that's quite a difference? Thanks on advance
 

meerschm

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Joe, the Original poster was looking for specs for the four mounting bolts.

for the twelve point axle end bolt, everything I have seen says quarter turn.

I would think the quarter turn applies, not the half turn.

the only difference I have seen is in the initial torque. (which really gets the bolt to a predictable starting point), pulling the axle end into full engagement with the hub.

if you want to be careful, apply 70 NM, and mark the position of the bolt vs the hub, then see how far it moves to apply 200 NM.

Like I said before, last night I secured a new axle, and used the vendor-provided spec of 200 NM plus a quarter turn. I had no trouble getting a nice click from the torque wrench, however I did not really get the full additional quarter turn, even after standing on a two foot long breaker bar. ( I weigh about 170 pounds) There is no way I could have made another quarter turn.




here is more info on the axle bolt:

http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/thread.jspa?threadID=42375
 
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James & Son

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Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta
I can't stand this any longer. If the OP has a M16 bolt and it is 12 pt. triple square and it has a 8.8 stamped on it he will torque it to 70NM plus 1/4 turn. This is the spec. in the Bently for a 2005 to 2010 tdi VW. You have not said your car is the same and therefor I or meerschm can not guaranty it pertains to your 2004 2.0 tdi Audi.
 

oceanrunner

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2015 Jetta SE TDI 6M
Can anyone shed some light as to the correct torque setting & procedure for tightening the front hub to axle BOLT (not a nut) on a 2004 Audi A3 2.0 TDi. It is a genuine Audi bolt, the 12 point, triple square bolt with no splines underneath the bolt flange, it's just smooth. I've read about so many different methods & torque settings it makes my head spin!! Some of the advice given was tighten to 200 Nm & immediately after tighten it an extra 90 deg. another opinion was tighten to 70 Nm & an extra 60 deg. & also slackening off the bolt then tightening a further 180 deg & even 1 that says torque to 200 Nm slacken by 90 deg. you then have to rotate the wheel 1 complete turn & then torque to 90Nm & then a further 90 deg.!!!! HELP!!!! Some of these answers came from the Bentley manual & some from an Audi tech!!! Can you give me your answers in newton metres please. Thanks.
You may want to read this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=403890
 

milkyjoe01

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Location
UK
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Audi A3 2.0 TDi
I appreciate everyones help & advice but what i'm not sure about is the 2 different 12 point bolts, in the Bentley manual it mentions the hex bolt & the 12 point bolt but there are 2 different 12 point bolts, there's 1 with splines under the bolt flange & 1 that is smooth (which is what i have purchased from my local Audi main dealer). I've read that if there's splines on the underside then the torque value is 70Nm & then a further 90' but if there's no splines then it's 200Nm & a 180' turn. I can't understand why there's so much of a difference just because of the splines under the bolts flange. If there was only a 20Nm difference then i would just split the difference & go with that but we are talking about a difference of 130Nm & a 90' turn which i am struggling to find anyone who has manged to complete the full procedure so i'd like to know how Audi Techs go on with 200Nm & then 180' extra, gamma radiation anyone!! Any advice to help is very much appreciated.
 

James & Son

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I have read everything on the subject including the link both meerschm and oceanrunner provided. I have to say i think IndigoBluewagon is wrong.

Both Bently and Erwin agree that the 12 pt is torqued to 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.

You will note the serrated is 12 pt. is torqued to the lower value even though it is a 10.9.

If you look at the picture provided in the link by oceanrunner the 12 pt 8.8 has locktite on the thread. The locktite would do the exact same thing as the 12 pt serrated so it also should be torqued to to the 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.

Now why is the torque on the 6 pt hex so high. I think it is because the separate washer deflexs once the torque reaches 200 NM (148 ft lbs.) plus 1/2 turn and the washer acts almost like a spring absorbing the 1/2 turn without the bolt reaching yield.

Since all bolts have the same modulus of elasticity they will all stretch the same for a given torque. You can not use the higher 6 pt torque on 8.8 grade bolts or they will go into yield. The 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn is about right at around 140 ft lbs ( from my calculations)for a grade 8.8 bolt to stay out of yield.

The only conclusion that makes sense is exactly what bently manual says. The 12 pt bolt whether serrated or not are torqued to 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.
 

milkyjoe01

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UK
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Audi A3 2.0 TDi
I have pink threadlock on my thread. I've just spoke to my local Audi main dealer who sold me the bolt & I was told that it is 200Nm in the air & a further 180' when on its wheels!!! So I asked about the other 12 point bolt with the splines & that is the 1 requiring 70Nm & then 90' cuz Audi changed the bolt to the none splines so the torque setting & procedure also changed to the higher value. Its so confusing cuz you make absolute sense but to me 200Nm & then 180' seems excessive but more & more people are saying its the higher value for my particular bolt, but at the same time 70Nm & a quarter turn doesn't seem enough for a bearing/hub bolt. I think I'm going to use 200Nm & then just a quarter turn cuz if I have a failure then I can take it to Audi & say that they gave me the setting cuz if I don't torque it enough then Audis advice won't be relevant. Thanks for all your help.
 

gerrywac

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I have pink threadlock on my thread. I've just spoke to my local Audi main dealer who sold me the bolt & I was told that it is 200Nm in the air & a further 180' when on its wheels!!! So I asked about the other 12 point bolt with the splines & that is the 1 requiring 70Nm & then 90' cuz Audi changed the bolt to the none splines so the torque setting & procedure also changed to the higher value. Its so confusing cuz you make absolute sense but to me 200Nm & then 180' seems excessive but more & more people are saying its the higher value for my particular bolt, but at the same time 70Nm & a quarter turn doesn't seem enough for a bearing/hub bolt. I think I'm going to use 200Nm & then just a quarter turn cuz if I have a failure then I can take it to Audi & say that they gave me the setting cuz if I don't torque it enough then Audis advice won't be relevant. Thanks for all your help.
I'm rather sceptical about this latest advice. The 2003 on A3 shares the same platform and Mechanicals as the Mk 5 Golf 2004-2009 and Jetta 2005 on, I have 2010 editions of the factory Elsawin/erwin manuals for the golf and Jetta and they both give exactly the same info
Hex axle centre bolt 200Nm +180deg
12 point centre bolt 70Nm +90deg
there is no mention of a revised 12 point with different tightening details at all

The four bearing/hub 12 points are also 70Nm+90deg

If it can wait a few days I have Audi manuals on another computer (different location) that I could cross-check
 

milkyjoe01

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UK
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Audi A3 2.0 TDi
Today I spoke to my local Audi main dealers & they confirm that the new 12 point bolt has no ribs on the underside of the bolt flange & has a new torque setting of 200Nm & then on the ground a further 180'!! The older 12 point bolt had ribs underneath the flange & apparently that did indeed require only 70Nm & then 90'! I received an email from Haynes publishers stating the same & that they have released a revised bulletin regarding as such that the older ribbed bolt is 70 & the newer un-ribbed is indeed 200Nm & the un-ribbed bolt is the only bolt Audi sell now! Extremely confusing!!
 

meerschm

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And I say good luck with that.

I just installed a twelve point 8.8 bolt with threadlock applied from the source, and after 200 NM, was hard pressed to put a full quarter turn, standing on a 24 inch long wrench handle.
 

James & Son

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See Added Edit- Reference Information

I have pink threadlock on my thread. I've just spoke to my local Audi main dealer who sold me the bolt & I was told that it is 200Nm in the air & a further 180' when on its wheels!!! So I asked about the other 12 point bolt with the splines & that is the 1 requiring 70Nm & then 90' cuz Audi changed the bolt to the none splines so the torque setting & procedure also changed to the higher value. Its so confusing cuz you make absolute sense but to me 200Nm & then 180' seems excessive but more & more people are saying its the higher value for my particular bolt, but at the same time 70Nm & a quarter turn doesn't seem enough for a bearing/hub bolt. I think I'm going to use 200Nm & then just a quarter turn cuz if I have a failure then I can take it to Audi & say that they gave me the setting cuz if I don't torque it enough then Audis advice won't be relevant. Thanks for all your help.
Ok, here is what vw/audi have done. If you use the 200NM plus 1/2 turn the 8.8 bolt will now become a stretch bolt and can not be used the second time. I would do as your dealer is telling you and torque to the full 200 NM plus 1/2 turn. I think what you will notice is as you reach the last portion of the 1/2 turn the torque or resistance will start to level off as you enter yield. Use a solvent to remove all oil from the axle thread so that you are torquing dry. An oiled M16 8.8 will yield at 180 ft lbs(244 NM) but the same bolt dry may take 240 ft lbs(325 NM) to yield.

What I am trying to say is I think the 8.8 will do the same job as the 10.9 six point but it will have to go into yield to do it and make sure the threads are dry.

Edit:I just saw meerschm post and that makes sense. You will need to add another 2 feet of pipe( total 4 ft) to get to manageable force.

Edit2: the above information is based on minimum yield strength of 92000 lbs./sq. in.(240 ft lbs dry for M16) for start of yield of the 8.8 bolt. Ultimate yield will be 120,000 psi tensile which is over 300 ft lbs.( dry) for a 8.8 bolt. I would guess meerschm was over 250 ft lbs with his 1/4 turn and I would again have to guess the next 1/4 turn would be at less 280 and no more.

Now the six point 10.9 will not go into yield until 340 ft lbs.- based on a minimum yield strength of 130,000 psi.

This information points out the dangerous practice of not replacing the 8.8 bolt with a new one which it seems to be the practice at repair shops.
 
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James & Son

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I weigh around 170 pounds, so standing on the end of a two foot breaker bar provides 340 ft-lb

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-25-in-breaker-bar-67933.html
Yep, if your center of gravity was rate at the bar end 340 ft lbs.
If you stood on your right foot your center gravity would be in 6 inches or 255 foot lbs.

no big deal as this is reference information based on minimums. I was trying to use it to see if the bolt would not fail at the high torque figure. It is possible that VW uses tighter range strength requirements for the 8.8.

Marty from Raxles.com (who provided the replacement axle shaft assy) said that AUDI updated the spec for a new bolt/threadlock to 200 NM plus 90 degrees.
This is your quote from previous post. It would be good of you to email marty and provide us where he saw this updated information. I think this is a good compromise but would like to be able to confirm it is official.
 

meerschm

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Marty is more of a phone guy, and Raxles is a phone place. the web site only has the
phone number. I will ask next week if he has a written source, but expect that it was a phone conversation that fed him the updated info.

And of course I stood on the end of the breaker bar. I started with the handle pointed up, and was able to rotate it by hand to around the two o'clock position. Then I got up on my left foot to get close to the three o'clock position.

If I tried to stand in the middle I would have slid down the shaft, fall off and say some words not suitable for little kids.

And too funny about the username our friend a few posts back from Saskatchewan uses.
 

James & Son

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I hate to drag this out but i think I know what is happening to cause the high torque that Meerschm has experianced.

The original 6 point hex used a separate washer( I have these on my car). The shoulder under the head of the hex is in the normal location next to the body of the bolt.

The 8.8 bolt has an integrated washer and the shoulder is located on the OD area of the head/washer. In fact the rad. is at least 1/8 to 3/16 inch before the shoulder. This in crease of diameter increases the friction of the contact by 1.333 to 1.5 respectively( lets use 1.4).

So from my post # 17 where I said yield was 240 ft lbs. x 1.4 = 336 ft lbs. So meerschm has just reached yield with the new style bolt/washer.

I like this result and hope that Raxles has the correct information so that it is official.

Edit2: after doing some scaling the shoulder contact maybe even further out with the radius before shoulder at 6mm. This changes everything and the effect could be very substantial especially effecting the initial torque possibly(200NM or 148 ft lbs) making any standard calculations invalid as well. I am now inclined to back off completely on this as 148 ft lbs plus 1/2 turn may be still valid and there is no way to know if you are entering yield.

 
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subber598

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Aug 9, 2018
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2014 Jetta Sportwagon TDI, 2013 Passat SE, 2011 Jetta SEL
Axle bolt discrepancy

Hi all. Just purchased a set of nuts and bolts to use when I replace the strut spring. The axle bolt is a 6-pt hex head grade 8.8, not the 10.6 that's been mentioned previously. From what I've gathered from this thread, I should torque it 200Nm + 1/2 turn and consider it junk if ever removed again.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows of a failure due to improper torque, because I'm thinking that anyone who hasn't seen this thread and got some bad advise, probably used the wrong torque values. Thanks
 

subber598

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New Hampshire
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2014 Jetta Sportwagon TDI, 2013 Passat SE, 2011 Jetta SEL
Hex head vs. 12-pt

I have read everything on the subject including the link both meerschm and oceanrunner provided. I have to say i think IndigoBluewagon is wrong.

Both Bently and Erwin agree that the 12 pt is torqued to 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.

You will note the serrated is 12 pt. is torqued to the lower value even though it is a 10.9.

If you look at the picture provided in the link by oceanrunner the 12 pt 8.8 has locktite on the thread. The locktite would do the exact same thing as the 12 pt serrated so it also should be torqued to to the 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.

Now why is the torque on the 6 pt hex so high. I think it is because the separate washer deflexs once the torque reaches 200 NM (148 ft lbs.) plus 1/2 turn and the washer acts almost like a spring absorbing the 1/2 turn without the bolt reaching yield.

Since all bolts have the same modulus of elasticity they will all stretch the same for a given torque. You can not use the higher 6 pt torque on 8.8 grade bolts or they will go into yield. The 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn is about right at around 140 ft lbs ( from my calculations)for a grade 8.8 bolt to stay out of yield.

The only conclusion that makes sense is exactly what bently manual says. The 12 pt bolt whether serrated or not are torqued to 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.
The hex head I replaced on my 2006 Jetta was a 8.8 grade so that is what the new one was. Torqued to the higher spec. Makes sense that the washer absorbs that 1/2 turn
 
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