Lifespan of the VW TDI engines

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
toastblows said:
Sweet, ill stick with Mobil-1 TDT. She'll be a nice rust bucket by the time i hit a million.
Take a look at what I just posted this evening.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1955157

My Golf will be rolling over 250k miles later this week, and with the UOA results I've been getting recently with Mobil Delvac aka Mobil 1 TDT, the engine should have no trouble going a million miles.
 

QtmMech

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mpls
TDI
2004 Jetta 5-speed
Drivbiwire said:
Let me clear this up a bit for you, so follow along.



DB
Thanks you, I really appreciate your considered reply. And thank you for taking my discusssion seriously.

I think that your air filter under magnification just validated one of my intuitive points though. The larger holes are unrestricted, some of the smaller ones are plugged. It does appear to have plenty of flow though.

Jim
 

volmaniac

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Location
McFadden's Ford, Stones River NMP M'boro, TN
TDI
02 Golf GLS
BrianCT said:
<snip>
I do 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals always. I get a very quiet start up without the metallic zig 2-4 weeks into my oil change. For over 200,000 miles of driving this car I'd know this sound by now.
<snip>
Brian, curious as to what oil you are using. I am thinking of going to 12k OCIs (been doing 10k OCIs per the manual).
 

toastblows

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Location
minnesota
TDI
2003 jetta GLS
TornadoRed said:
Take a look at what I just posted this evening.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1955157

My Golf will be rolling over 250k miles later this week, and with the UOA results I've been getting recently with Mobil Delvac aka Mobil 1 TDT, the engine should have no trouble going a million miles.
sweet. i know you lived in mn at one point. i have 109k on my jetta. at that rate, i should rust out long before i get to 1 million eh? :D
 

BrianCT

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Location
USA
TDI
TDI
volmaniac said:
Brian, curious as to what oil you are using. I am thinking of going to 12k OCIs (been doing 10k OCIs per the manual).
Was using Delvac 5-40w then after that bottomed out at WallyMartin retailers, I'd end up ordering on line Motul or Elf Evolution 5-40w either through Impex or TDIparts.

BrianCT
 
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TDIfor

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Location
Logan, Ohio
TDI
'02 NB Double Yellow
DBW: Your discussion of additives was interesting and got me wondering. Is this particulary, or uniquely, true for diesels, or does it apply for gas engines as well. I have been in the habit of replacing oil in my motorcycle ev. 1500-2000 miles because the "oil looked like it needed to be changed."

Similarly, the wife's Buick, with a supercharger, gets changed around ev. 3Kmiles (when the Change Oil light comes on), which of course does not monitor the oil, the 'puter just makes a guesstimate based on engine RPM, miles driven, etc.

Sooo... should ALL oils in ALL engines run 8-10K miles for additive bed-in, or does this apply to diesels only?

thx!

Don
 

JettaJake

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Location
CT TDI Corral
TDI
'03 GLS 5spd
Drivbiwire said:
Let me clear this up a bit for you, so follow along.
For every 1000 units (drops, liters, take your pick) of oil that pass between the cam lobe and the lifter 1 unit of oil additive passes thru. Oil additives are a very small component of the overall oil volume. Depending on the oil and the additive package it ranges anywhere from less than 1% to 3% by volume.
errr, seems I am already lost. Fuzzy math, or perhaps we dropped a decimal place or added an extra zero somewhere (1:1000 ---> 0.1%)?
In reality, additives can make up upwards of 20% (that is one fifth or one part in five) of the volume of multi-viscosity motor oils. The portion targeted at cam lobes might be only 0.1%, but who knows? The motor oil compounders are not readily sharing these details. Where are you drawing your information from?

Drivbiwire said:
Oil additives are comprised of multiple compounds each having a specific target for improving the oils base stock performance.
If you drain the oil the combination of those additives which had found equilibrium due to either pressure, heat or both are now gone from the motor by way of the drain plug.

Now you pour in a new batch of oil whose additives have never been heated or met with the pressure of the target regions of the motor. Over the first 1,000 to 3,000 miles in the motor those additives meet with the target locations and eventually reach that optimal point of equilibrium where they provide the oil specifications expected level of protection.
bah -- I agree some of these additives will have a synergistic relationship and that there is an initial oil-break-in period (though fleeting if not insignificant in regards to actual wear), but I am not on board with your "equilibrium" assertions and my opinion is that this equilibrium theory or at least the implications you attach to it are open to debate (to put it nicely).

A partial laundry list of some types of motor oil additive would include:
-------
extreme pressure adds
anti-wear adds
viscosity/flow/pour point adds
friction modifier adds
detergent adds
anti-foam adds
corrosion inhibitor adds
anti-oxidant adds
snake powder adds (think PTFE - bogus of course)

Have to take exception to your speaking as if you have firsthand knowledge of what & where these individual additives are targeted --- can you elaborate or perhaps cite a source indicating 1) a representative compound for each type of additive and 2) what the "specific target" of the different additives (and likely conglomerates) is supposed to be?

Short of you having a career's worth of experience in the field oil compounding/formulation, I contend you cannot because you have no intimate knowledge of what goes to what and practically nothing you've said goes much beyond mere conjecture.

Drivbiwire said:
Speaking of cam lobes and lifters which are one of the highest pressure points in the motor if not the highest. Everytime the cam contacts the lifter a "sacrificial layer" is formed by certain additives in the oil. Also with every pass of the cam lobe part of the layer is also wiped away or "sacrificed" to protect the underlying metal surfaces thus exposing those surfaces each awaiting another pass of the cam and lubricant along with the 1% concentration of additive for replenishment of the layer.

New oil can't provide immediate replenishment to the high pressure surfaces since the oil itself is still in a state of flux being new to the motor as well as the levels of heat and pressures the engine applies to the new oil. This results in a brief increase in wear during a period of time after the oil change.
Your 1st paragraph here gives an okay general description of what is going on but you completely fall off the deep end in the second paragraph. Perhaps you could (once more) point out the source(s) and/or some serious data backing up your assertions? Moreover, the very phrasology you use, "still in a state of flux", "brief increase", "a period of time" makes whatever you are trying to say here all but meaningless.....perhaps you can clarify and actually say something that means squat. Sorry if this sounds harsh or cutting, but really (rolleyes) the BS meter is showing a high overboost condition.

Viable proof should be accessible. I am certain there are ample wear investigations monitoring (diesel) engine oil conditions on a continuous basis (ferro- & spectrographic). Some decent papers/reports on this sort of study would be rather convincing, depending....such studies are definitely out there. Perhaps someone will offer up links to a couple gems from a direct googlization; I have not as yet had time to look.

Drivbiwire said:
With new oil, the high pressure surfaces will operate for a period of time until the new additives can place on those specific regions of contact/pressure and only when the oil has reached a state of quilibrium in the motor will it provide the lowest levels of wear.

Again we are not dealing with a concentration of 100% additive in the oil. This partly why it takes a period of time for additives to become stabilized in an engine.

Changing oil early (prior to the specifications intended interval) results in failure of the oil to reach a state of equilibrium resulting in increased wear in the motor.
[CUT PICTURE]
This filter was as black as night but it was providing nearly zero restriction. Close inspection of the filter will show you that it's far from plugged and still has the capability of a very long service life. Again the visual cues of the filter are COMPLETELY meaningless..........[SNIP]
Speaking of COMPLETELY meaningless, yup, that picture cinches it for me --- NOT! The various assertions you make on filtration are another story/debate altogether, but best to let that sleeping dog lie....for now at least :D

jj (you can call me jake or you can call me slick :p )
 

shawna74

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Location
Wellington Florida
TDI
2014 VW Passat
With all due respect half of this is bs. Show me proof that my engine will wear faster if I change oil every 5,000. These statement are your opinion and nothing more. My first engine lasted 285,000 miles and still looks good inside. No unusual bearing wear,cylinder walls in great shape.

5k is preferred diesel engines have blow back that cause soot to enter the oil. the dirt causes wear advanced wear on the engine.
 

cmitchell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Location
Central Oregon
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS black / black leather
5k is preferred diesel engines have blow back that cause soot to enter the oil. the dirt causes wear advanced wear on the engine.
Uh, preferred by YOU perhaps. You revived a nine-year old thread just to state a personal opinion? :eek:
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
5k is preferred diesel engines have blow back that cause soot to enter the oil. the dirt causes wear advanced wear on the engine.
Old school is still alive and well. *SIGHE*

The normal black oil is not "dirty" at all. The oil SHOULD appear black because that means the oil is doing its job of controlling soot by keeping soot safely suspended in the oil where it does no harm. The time to worry is if and when the oil appears anything other than totally black. You will find the oil to appear black almost immediately after an oil change and is 100% normal and nothing to worry about.

If you actually have dirt in the oil, you've got bigger problems to worry about.

Good luck and Welcome to TDIclub. :cool:
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I like to change mine every 500 miles with whale blubber. :D
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Greetings all. I am considering a TDI VW Jetta or Beetle 99-2004. I was curious what is the expected lifespan of a properly maintained VW TDI? I know the Benz is touted at several hundred thousand miles, but I have not been able to find any posts regarding the VW. Thanks in advance.
(I know I'm replying to a 9 year old thread.) :)

When I sold my 02 Golf TDI in 2010 with only 361k miles on the odometer, it was still too early to tell. That car is still on the road today at over 400k miles.

How long can a properly maintained TDI last?? The world may never know..... :cool:
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Old shop Golf is at 674....
 

Aztraveler

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
Sold 2014 Jetta back to VW in 2016. In Oct 2020 Bought 2015 Passat TDI SE CPO
I was at a GTG a couple of year's ago and a guy brought in his golf he just bought with 500k on it to get a Malone tune installed.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

frosz

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Location
Sweden
TDI
Passat TDI 1.9 AFN -98 (Manual) ~480 000km Passat TDI 1.9 AVG -00 (Manual) ~170 000km Golf Variant 1.6 16v AZD -02 (Manual Petrol) ~220 000km
Can somebody sum this up for me? I have only seen catastrophic failure when owners haven't changed oil, I've seen a few clogged oil sumps.

I change my oil and oil filter once a year or 6500 miles (10000km), some years I have changed oil two times a year when I have been driving a lot.

How long is this break-in period, how many miles?
 
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dbias

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Location
Huntington WV
TDI
2015 Passat SE w sunroof buyback 3/18/17
Can somebody sum this up for me? I have only seen catastrophic failure when owners haven't changed oil, I've seen a few clogged oil sumps.

I change my oil and oil filter once a year or 6500 miles (10000km), some years I have changed oil two times a year when I have been driving a lot.

How long is this break-in period, how many miles?
Here a little light reading about motor oil

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Most agree that TDIs are fully broken in at around 60K miles. That's when compression gets to peak levels, and, with good maintenance, stays there until about 300K miles when it starts to drop, although not rapidly.
 
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