NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

carnotgas said:

I am parting out my 2009 Jetta TDI. It has a 6 speed manual transmission, sunroof, 17 inch wheels. Graphite Blue. The vehicle is not worth repairing since it is out of warranty. It has a bad HPFP along with the rest of the fuel system. The turbo is bad and so is the DPF. It is due for a timing belt replacement. The exhust flapper valve is bad also. The steering wheel is off center and the vehicle pulled to the right when it was running. The satalite radio only works sometimes so I can't even use it to listen to music. The air conditioner was slow to cool down when I used to drive the car. Actually, I can't think of anything on the car that works! I doubt that anyone would want to buy any parts off of this lemon.

Thanks for reading.

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You're a few hours early

tditom said:

You're a few hours early

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Huh?

Check today's date. Basically, the internet is useless today.

carnotgas said:

I am parting out my 2009 Jetta TDI. It has a 6 speed manual transmission, sunroof, 17 inch wheels. Graphite Blue. The vehicle is not worth repairing since it is out of warranty. It has a bad HPFP along with the rest of the fuel system. The turbo is bad and so is the DPF. It is due for a timing belt replacement. The exhust flapper valve is bad also. The steering wheel is off center and the vehicle pulled to the right when it was running. The satalite radio only works sometimes so I can't even use it to listen to music. The air conditioner was slow to cool down when I used to drive the car. Actually, I can't think of anything on the car that works! I doubt that anyone would want to buy any parts off of this lemon.

Thanks for reading.

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Sorry to hear you've had a few minor problems. I'm looking for just such a car to show case the VW CR. I'll pay you cash money and $1000 more than you paid for it when you bought it. Send me your bank info and I'll wire transfer your asking price plus the $1000 extra. I'll also have a shipping company pick up the car so you won't have anything to worry about. Just leave the keys and clear title in the glove box. PM sent with complete details.

Thanks .

dweisel said:

Sorry to hear you've had a few minor problems. I'm looking for just such a car to show case the VW CR. I'll pay you cash money and $1000 more than you paid for it when you bought it. Send me your bank info and I'll wire transfer your asking price plus the $1000 extra. I'll also have a shipping company pick up the car so you won't have anything to worry about. Just leave the keys and clear title in the glove box. PM sent with complete details.
Thanks .

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You by any chance from lagos?

The calendar made me do it

bhtooefr> Basically, the internet is useless today.

The internet has been useless since I started using it in 1982.
It's just more useless on 01 April.

In other news, I dropped the ailing ALH off at the dealer yesterday, and gave them a week to diagnose the 01M issues. I'm inclined to keep it running rather than place a bet on a CR. The regional Native American casino has more attractive odds.

I was looking around the lot to see if the dealer had any JSW TDIs, and there were none. The service manager happened to be still there, and said all the TDIs were quietly shipped out, per the recall agreement VW has concluded with NHTSA. I think he said it's covered by upcoming NHSTA campaign 12V0401.

Speaking of April fools day, perhaps we should resurrect this thread. I think it's one of the best April fools threads I've seen here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=243596

Have Fun!

Don

azerite said:

You by any chance from lagos?

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No, but I'm currently visiting a friend there. Why do you ask? lol

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I figured I could retype it in less time then it would take to read 213 pages!

I emailed VW today to verify if the HPFP was a covered part under VW's 5/60 powertrain warranty. I actually wound up chatting with an advocate. He stated that VW and NHTSA are doing a voluntary investigation onto the potential HPFP failures. He stated that while they sort out the problem VW has "voluntarily" extended the warranty on the HPFP to 5/60 on "certian" TDi models.

I explained that I have a new 2012 and wanted to know if the HPFP would be covered under the 3/36 or the 5/60. I provided my VIN and he stated he would have to check and email me in the morning but he was fairly certain that it was covered to 5/60.

If I get the email in the morning and it states the warranty is covered to 5/60, I will for sure save the email, but I will also post it here.

Well hopefully "certain models" means the ones that fail.

I wonder what "certain TDI models" means.

coverage to only 60k miles (if that actually happens) is a joke. I would be willing to guess a very large percentage of 09's are already well beyond that point.

HammerTDI said:

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I figured I could retype it in less time then it would take to read 213 pages!

I emailed VW today to verify if the HPFP was a covered part under VW's 5/60 powertrain warranty. I actually wound up chatting with an advocate. He stated that VW and NHTSA are doing a voluntary investigation onto the potential HPFP failures. He stated that while they sort out the problem VW has "voluntarily" extended the warranty on the HPFP to 5/60 on "certian" TDi models.

I explained that I have a new 2012 and wanted to know if the HPFP would be covered under the 3/36 or the 5/60. I provided my VIN and he stated he would have to check and email me in the morning but he was fairly certain that it was covered to 5/60.

If I get the email in the morning and it states the warranty is covered to 5/60, I will for sure save the email, but I will also post it here.

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I don't consider it voluntary when NHTSA has taken it to Engineering Analysis on that Bosch / VW pump. JMHO... those that have dealt with warranty issues on previous model passat TDI's, and failed cam/proper 505.01 oil issues, that were a lot less expensive, would tell you the same thing.

I understand. I hope VW will do the right thing and fix the issue.
If that doesn't happen I hope NHTSA forces them to do the right thing.
If that doesn't happen, I will take my lumps and off the car when the warranty is up. (At either 36k or 60k)

Charrigan said:

coverage to only 60k miles (if that actually happens) is a joke. I would be willing to guess a very large percentage of 09's are already well beyond that point.

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Completely agree! Hopefully just a temporary measure until they figure out how to resolve the issue.

HammerTDI said:

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I figured I could retype it in less time then it would take to read 213 pages!

I emailed VW today to verify if the HPFP was a covered part under VW's 5/60 powertrain warranty. I actually wound up chatting with an advocate. He stated that VW and NHTSA are doing a voluntary investigation onto the potential HPFP failures. He stated that while they sort out the problem VW has "voluntarily" extended the warranty on the HPFP to 5/60 on "certian" TDi models.

I explained that I have a new 2012 and wanted to know if the HPFP would be covered under the 3/36 or the 5/60. I provided my VIN and he stated he would have to check and email me in the morning but he was fairly certain that it was covered to 5/60.

If I get the email in the morning and it states the warranty is covered to 5/60, I will for sure save the email, but I will also post it here.

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Well I don't know what to make of this response from VWCC because the warranty was 5/60 before the NHTSA investigation began. NHTSA opened their investigaion on August 26, 2010.

In early 2010, I asked my SA what the warranty was on the HPFP. Without hesitation he said 5/60. I said are you sure. He called up something on his PC and said yep it's 5/60. Then in July, 2010 I emailed VWCC and indicated that their seemed to be some confusion on the warranty on the HPFP as some dealers were apparently saying it was only 3/36. This is the thread and VWCC response below.

Thank you for your e-mail regarding your Jetta TDI and warranty coverage provided with your purchase. We appreciate you being part of the Volkswagen family! I understand you’d like to know the coverage for the high-pressure diesel pump, tank fuel pump, intermediate pump, and fuel injectors in your car, and I appreciate the chance to provide you with more information.

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The high-pressure fuel (diesel) pump is specifically designed for use with our TDI vehicles, and is included within the coverage of the Limited Powertrain Warranty, which covers manufacturing shortcomings in your engine, transmission and drivetrain components for 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

With this in mind, the other fuel pumps and the fuel injectors themselves are covered specifically as fuel system components, which receive coverage for manufacturing shortcomings under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty for a period of 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.

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ZiggyTheHamster said:

I've updated your record to show the correct number. Your pump is the first pump which has "BPY" instead of "BPT", and I've seen a couple other Czech Republic pumps (the 515 is Czech Republic, 011 is Germany, unless it's a coincidence that I started seeing 515s alongside the "Made in Czech Republic" markings).



Here's a link to the spreadsheet of HPFP pumps and failures (though the failure list is out of date I think).

I also forgot to ask, when was your car made? The month/year will be inside the driver's side door jamb. I think it's towards the bottom, but I've seen it halfway up or so on some cars.

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The car was made 06 11.

I checked out the other threads about this issue. One thing that seems different about my pump which came from Czech Republic. I noticed in the instruction of how to take a picture of the ID tag on the pump that the picture was being taken from the front of the car. When I was asked to take a pic I was a little puzzled about how I was going to do this. My ID tag is on the bottom of the pump. It is impossible to get any kind of a camera in there. There maybe half inch of clearance there? Just enough to get my mechanics mirror in there which is on a telescoping rod. Is my pump the only one with the ID tag on the bottom instead of the side? It appears all the other pumps the tag is on the side of the pump facing the front of the car, not so on mine.

Also another note is that I did order my car. Don't know if that makes any difference? I ordered it early on 2011 but didn't get it until 06 11 which is the build date on the door. The reason I ordered it was because you can't get a loaded TDI JSW with a man tranny & pano roof, they all have auto in them.

More for the record ...

The high-pressure fuel (diesel) pump is specifically designed for use with our TDI vehicles, and is included within the coverage of the Limited Powertrain Warranty, which covers manufacturing shortcomings in your engine, transmission and drivetrain components for 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

And for beyond-warranty coverage, in both the new and cert pre-own (US) plans,
http://web.vw.com/cms/vehicle-protection/car-care-service-plan/
you presumably need to be at the Gold Plus or Platinum level for fuel system coverage, because the G+ level specifically lists:

Fuel: Fuel lines; fuel pressure regulator; level sending unit; fuel injectors and seals; injection pump; ESC systems; fuel injection control components including mixture control processor, throttle body assembly, cutoff valve, fuel rail, fuel distributor, trigger contacts, cold start valve, fuel injection valve, fuel accumulator; tank; tank door latch; tank filler neck and o-ring.

I take "injection pump" to mean or include the HPFP, and this paragraph to generally to mean the lower levels (Powertrain, Silver & Gold) do NOT cover these items.

T Girl said:

My ID tag is on the bottom of the pump. It is impossible to get any kind of a camera in there.

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It takes a few attempts, but it is possible. It requires a camera with a button on top though. Don't bother with a phone... some people managed to do it, but it's just way too difficult.

HammerTDI said:

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I figured I could retype it in less time then it would take to read 213 pages!

I emailed VW today to verify if the HPFP was a covered part under VW's 5/60 powertrain warranty. I actually wound up chatting with an advocate. He stated that VW and NHTSA are doing a voluntary investigation onto the potential HPFP failures. He stated that while they sort out the problem VW has "voluntarily" extended the warranty on the HPFP to 5/60 on "certian" TDi models.

I explained that I have a new 2012 and wanted to know if the HPFP would be covered under the 3/36 or the 5/60. I provided my VIN and he stated he would have to check and email me in the morning but he was fairly certain that it was covered to 5/60.

If I get the email in the morning and it states the warranty is covered to 5/60, I will for sure save the email, but I will also post it here.

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I got 2 responses from VW today. I removed the name of the VW employee who signed the bottom of both.

From the VW Customer Chat rep

VW Customer Chat vwcustomerchat@vw.com
4:04 PM (4 hours ago)

to me
Dear Removed:

Thank you for taking the time to chat with you my colleague on April 5.

After thorough research, we can confirm the high pressure fuel pump (HPFP) on 2012 clean-diesel TDI vehicles is covered under the Powertrain Limited Warranty. This warranty covers the HPFP and other powertrain components for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s original in-service date.

If you have any additional questions, about specific components covered under the warranties for your Jetta TDI, I encourage you to speak with the Service Department at your local VW dealership, as they are the best resource for all technical information related to our vehicles.

You’re also always welcome to contact our colleagues in the Volkswagen Information Center at 1-800-DRIVE VW.

I’m thrilled to know you love your new car! Engineered to offer miles and miles of outstanding performance paired with great style, the Jetta truly is a dream machine! I hope you’ll spend many fantastic years motoring with us.

Thanks again for contacting VW Chat.


From VW Email care

VIC Web Responses volktalk@vw.com
6:39 PM (2 hours ago)

to me
Dear Removed:

Thank you for contacting the Volkswagen Information Center regarding your concerns about the high pressure fuel pump with your vehicle.

Volkswagen is working in full cooperation with the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in researching customer concerns with the fuel pump on our Clean Diesel vehicles. At this time, there has been no indication, based on the research, that the customers that have experienced concerns with the fuel pump have been related to an inherent flaw in the design.

Please know we want you to be confident in your Volkswagen purchase. We will stand behind you and your Jetta with both our warranties and our Customer Service staff. In an effort to alleviate our customers' apprehension with perceived concerns regarding the high pressure fuel pump, we have added this component to the list of covered components under the Powertrain Limited Warranty for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

If you have further concerns or questions regarding this, please contact our Customer CARE center at 800-822-8987.

Thank you for visiting vw.com!


Volktalk

Cool. That means we will know far more before I'm ever out of warranty. No, that does not help those who are already near there or past.

It does mean I can continue "driving more and worrying less"

pknopp said:

Cool. That means we will know far more before I'm ever out of warranty. No, that does not help those who are already near there or past.

It does mean I can continue "driving more and worrying less"

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+1! VW has almost 2 years to figure it out before I have to worry about it. I am going to drive my Jetta, enjoy the fuel savings and make sure i save my diesel receipts.

HammerTDI said:

+1! VW has almost 2 years to figure it out before I have to worry about it. I am going to drive my Jetta, enjoy the fuel savings and make sure i save my diesel receipts.

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Well, VW has about 1 month to figure it out before I have to worry about it.

Self destruct in 3, 2, 1 miles ...

HammerTDI: > VW has almost 2 years to figure it out before...

VW has had over 2 years to take a more responsible position on supporting the out-of-warranty customers (regardless of whether the root cause was fully understood, remedied or redesigned around). They've done nothing.

This just cost them a CR sale. I've taken steps to keep our ALH running for another year or so, and see what's on the market then.

Second Turbo said:

HammerTDI: > VW has almost 2 years to figure it out before...

VW has had over 2 years to take a more responsible position on supporting the out-of-warranty customers (regardless of whether the root cause was fully understood, remedied or redesigned around). They've done nothing.

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I hate to sound like a homer here but it's wrong to say they have done nothing. You've just read the post where they say they've included the pump in the 5/60. Others have noted that they've covered them beyond that.

Yes it's true they have covered HPFP past warranty.Early on they blame the customer,now they covered the pump with no question asked.

HammerTDi and others who are emailing questions to VW--you might want to ask specifically if collateral damage is covered should it fail (under the 5/60 PT warranty). Months ago I did, and they said yes (and yes the email is saved on multiple servers, backed up to external hard drives, sent to my family on Jupiter and printed out and locked up in a safe deposit box).

It does seem less of an issue now that they are more clearly stepping up when something happens, but if you want the comfort of having the whole thing in writing, it sounds like you have to be specific in your questioning. (Again, at least that was the case when I contacted them, which was probably almost a year ago).

**Note**--I'm not trying to throw fuel on the fire of paranoia here, just making a suggestion if you want to email and get a complete answer. Personally, I'm getting less and less worried about the whole thing as time goes on--I mean, what can you do at this point? (hopefully not famous last words...).
Cheers,
~T

I mean, what can you do at this point?

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Pretty easy, I'm not going to buy one. New or used.

Drive more worry less (in my ALHs).