2004 PD Tiptronic 09A. Replaced Solenoids 2K miles ago...

Hi club, I replaced my failing solenoids with Cobra Transmission Japanese solenoids, and VW trans fluid. I know everyone has varied levels of mechanical abilities, here it mine (timing belt service on multiple vehicles, Jeep 4x4 suspension lift, crank seals, brakes, fuel pumps, etc...basically not going "in" the motor or tranny as of yet). So I do believe I did the solenoid replacement correctly. I replaced the original solenoid at 213K miles, and everything was perfect for the last two thousand miles.

Today 215.6K miles, I reversed out of my parking spot, put it in "D" and drove away only to have it not shift into second. I backed off the gas, came to a stop, tried again, same thing. I came to a stop and put it an tiptronic mode, and it wouldn't shift into second manually either.

1. What could cause this?

2. If the replacement solenoids were new Japanese ones, and worked perfect up until this point, does it make sense that something happened to them, a while, etc., causing this type of failure?

3. Will my VCDS show what is going on (CEL)?

Thank you so much for your help!!! I was planning on doing a 5spd swap one day, but after dropping the new solenoids on it, would prefer to use it as a auto for now if I can.

***update***

So after this post, I went out to check it out again, and used my VCDS too on the auto trans to see if there were any codes. There was one (00652-Gear Monitoring. 27-10 Implausible Signal Intermittent.),

But it went back to shifting perfect again! So "something" is causing this and I need this thing to be reliable again.

In my mind, it is either a: bad wire somewhere??? or b: dirt in solenoid causing a stoppage?

Interestingly, the VCDS 004 measuring block has a "Condition of Solenoid Valves" area that has a number-00000111. Does that mean it is good or bad?

Suggestions on what could cause it to act up, and then work perfect again?

Thank you for your advice!

I believe all that fault means is the transmission was not in the gear it was commanded to be in, based off of TCM monitoring of input shaft and output shaft speeds. Doesn't really tell you a specific gear, but you can monitor the TCM data and see the actual and commanded gears somewhere. But that will only narrow down WHICH gear, assuming you are even able to catch it, and that only gives you less than a few but still more than one possible cause.

Good news is, if it is intermittent then chances are it is NOT a major mechanical problem like a failed clutch or something. Because that sort of thing usually breaks and stays broken.

But even ruling that out, the hydraulic and electronic control portions still leave a lot of possibilities. Valve body, wire harness, etc.

You are right Oilhammer....I feel the trouble shooting is just beginning and maybe not even able to find a happy ending. Intermittent problems are the worst!

So I got it to repeat in the exact same conditions. It appears to happen the past two days now when the car is cold. First start of the day (happen to be "cold" today in Florida 58*), reverse out of the parking spot, then to "D" and it won't leave first no matter what (Tiptronic mode or not). I drove it back, shut it off and went inside to grab my VCDS for the now showing CEL. Came back out, same code as above (gear monitoring-implausible signal-intermittent).

Started it after, backed out, put it in "D", and it drove perfect. Note, this hasn't happened while driving, or even after stopping at the local convenience store for a snack when leaving.

1. What could cause this to happen only when cold???

2. I know my internal trans temp sensor has been dead for a few years. Apparently its deep in the 09A and a common problem. Could it somehow be causing this?

You can splice a new ATF temp sensor into the harness and mount it anywhere next to the valve body.

Good tip Oilhammer! Could this be related or not? I would say no initially, but I'm still learning these cars..

ive had the same problem for quite awhile now, finally got everything together to tackle the 5 speed swap in the near future. Mine started out as intermittent, always when cold. The first shift into second after starting it from cold was always a problem. All I do is run rpms up till im going approx. twenty mph, kick trans in neutral, do a quick off on cycle with key, drop it back in drive and its all set. I figure its solenoids but decided to run it till it stops. Its now getting much worse, to the point of not always shifting even when hot. After awhile it gets to be part of the program, ya know kinda like bending over to tie your shoes before you go away. My trans has 175k miles on it, oil was changed once or twice that I know of, and its had a stage 2 since before a 100k which was reflashed to a stage 4 maybe 20k ago. I figure it has about served its time........

TDIguy-my issue is post solenoid swap. I used the correct Japanese solenoids too. It was perfect for a few thousand miles not this.


It has been cold here for Florida, and I diced to let my car "warm up" for about 4-5min before I drove away this time. I put quotes around "warm up" because I've heard these don't really warm up till you drive them (the diesels).

So the temp gauge seemed to be at 120* before I drove away, and it shifted MUCH better. That leads me to believe:

1. The extra 4-5 minutes allowed the trans pressure to build up (if that is such a thing) or

2. The 4-5 minutes allowed it to warm up to shift correctly.

I may have to try and add a new ATF temp sensor in the pan like oil hammer suggested (since the internal one failed). I would really like to know the how that sensor effects the trans operations exactly before going through the effort.

***EDIT***

Found out more about temp sensor G93, from my 09A booklet I found online:

Signal utilisation The gearbox control unit uses the ATF oil
temperature to calculate a hot-engine shift
program in order to regulate shift pressures
as a factor of gear oil temperature.
In simplified terms, a high shift pressure is
applied at low oil temperature. This pressures is
then continuously reduced as a function of rising
ATF oil temperature.
To prevent the ATF oil from overheating, the
engine is revved for longer in the individual
gears and the lock-up clutch is closed more
frequently when the oil temperature exceeds
150° Celsius. These measures reduce friction and
allow the oil to cool down.

If the signal from sender G93 fails, the hotengine
shift program is no longer received, with
the result that the gearbox performs gearshifts at
higher pressures. The control unit utilises the
signal from the coolant temperature sender up to
a temperature of 70° C. It then utilises a fixed
value of 110 °C.
Electrical circuit

So....If I understand that, it can't be that sensor's failure.

VincenzaV said:

... I would really like to know the how that sensor effects the trans operations exactly before going through the effort.

Click to expand...

Here ya go:

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_232.pdf

Thanks oil hammer. That's actually the same source I used (probably got it from you responding to someone else before). Looking at the ATF temp sensor there, it seems that when operational, the gear box shift when the ATF fluid is col-at higher pressures. Then, as it heats up, it reduces the shift pressure.

Here are my questions of which you may or may not know.

1. If it fails, it seems it either fails open or closed. Normal high pressure or lower pressure? Say high pressure when ATF is cold, so that wouldn't be a bad thing, right?

2. My ATF sensor has been base for at least a year. Before my solenoids started acting up (and the two thousand successful) miles after the replacement it shifted fine (with the bad ATF fluid sensor). Since it was shifting fine then, doesn't that rule out the possibility of the ATF sensor being the culprit?

3. Isn't it "weird", albeit good for me right now, that this only happens when the engine is cold (first start of the day), or after the fluid in the transmission is pressured (If it works like that?)

Thanks for your time and help oilhammer. You make this forum.

Thank you for the kind words.

Yes, it does seem strange if you have had a bad ATF temp sensor for a while and a new problem comes along. Certainly possible they are not related, and if it were not for the labor intensiveness of the sensor replacement, I'd just replace it now anyway regardless. But since it isn't exactly a quick easy thing...

It is possible for conventional slushbox automatics to have a lack of engagement when cold due to something internal that is leaking but seals up enough once warm to make the correct apply. I have personally had this issue with a C6 transmission in my old '78 F250 as well as two different Volkswagen 010-based transmissions, one in an '82 Audi 5000 and another in an '86 Jetta.

However unlike those old stone age 3-speed units, your Jatco does have electronic controls and therefor some nice OBD and datastreaming capabilities. Which may at least allow some clues as to what exactly is going on. But to be honest, short of having another normally behaving 09A Jatco box on hand to compare, it may not be easily found if the TCM's OBD isn't already seeing something amiss (aside from the aforementioned temp sensor fault).

You said you do have a gear monitoring fault, but that is a vague one as I stated in my first post in this thread. So you may have to try and do some more digging there, especially if there was any useful freeze frame data.

You may also PM CoolAirVW with a link to this thread to get his input, as he knows volumes more about these transmissions than I do.

Vince is right oilhammer is a great asset to this forum. He's helped me out a couple of times.



Is it possible that since you've buttoned that transmission back up that it's been weeping a little and your'e just a little low on fluid? I realize that's kinda simplistic, but it's the first thing that comes to mind when an auto is not shifting right.

I've had a 00300 DTC, ATF temperature, for as long as I can remember, and never had any shifting problems. I delete it and it usually comes back. I hope Cool Air chimes in.

I'll PM CoolAir....

"Is it possible that since you've buttoned that transmission back up that it's been weeping a little and your'e just a little low on fluid?" Totally...I'll check the and see if there is a wet pan. I didn't think of that to be honest...sometimes the simplest things...

Since the ATF fluid temp sensor has been dealt a while, it kind of makes fluid filling more of an educated guess....

I would suggest adding a 1/2 qt atf and see if it solves the problem.....I've seen this work several times.

Thanks maxmoo! I'll head over to my storage unit to grab my fluid and check the pan for wetness while I'm at it.

I checked the outside of the transmission pan, no apparent leaks. However, I still added the 1/2 quart of fluid. I did not notice a huge difference (like it shifting perfect while cold), however it "seemed" like I needed only 2-3 min of idle time before leaving instead of the 4-5 min, for it to shift normal. We will see later tonight when I drive the car again. I'll let you know if there is a change.

UPDATE:

I have the second Cobra solenoid kit, originally convinced it was a problem with N92 or N89 or both. However, I ran my code (00652-Gear Monitoring: Implausible Signal)ready to go replace the two tomorrow...BUT...

The RossTech website (I didn't think to run the code there...) says possible causes are:
1-ATF fluid low
2-G68 faulty or dirty
3-G38 faulty or dirty
4-Multi-function switch faulty (but not detected, whatever that means...out of adjustment or bad?)
5-Clutch or valve body
6-ATF pump bad.

No solenoids anywhere in the list. So before I tear in again (keep in mind, once the car is warmed up, it shifts fine while the car stays warmed up), I'm going to check the most likely (1, 2, and 3) tomorrow.

I'll keep you posted. Maybe I did the solenoids just fine and it is actually one of the three listed. Fingers crossed.

Delayed upshift cold, and working good warm is almost always a solenoid on your trans.

Thanks for the info CoolAirVW. We always appreciate you!

I am replacing my solenoids (2-3K miles old, from Cobra Transmission) again, but I'm also doing a reman'd VB. I know the first time doing the solenoids was not really fun (working in the sun, in FL, on the street sided of my apartment...)

I don't want to do it a third time so in the rare chance that some debris broke free and clogged a passage in the VB, I'n doing that too at the same time. Maybe not likely, but I'm not wanting to do it a third time as I said.

It was supposed to come today, but no show (Ebay). I also ohm'd out the new Cobra Transmission solenoids I have in the box, to compare them to the 2-3K mile ones when I pull them out. From what I've read, the solenoids can fail two ways (mechanically OR electrically). So I just want a base line for each solenoid for the replacement.

That being said, should I pull the whole front clip off to do the VB swap, or just pull the transmission back like I did for the solenoids? I know the later wasn't fun using mirrors and all. Not too easy to see just for doing the solenoid swap I did.

Is there even enough space to safely pull the VB out w/o putting the car in "service position"?

Thanks CoolAirVW!

Dont waste your money. Since you've allready changed the solenoid set just change the one solenoid.

Appreciate the advice, but I already bought the reman'd VB from my post above yours. Either way, I'm in a whole new predicament. I need back surgery right now, so I can't do car work. I have to find a very well rated shop to drop off the VB and new Cobra solenoids and have them do it. I really hate having to outsource the work, but my body can't currently handle it. I'll let you guys know the shop's prognosis.

Anyone know of any good transmission shops in or near Tampa, FL? Or will I have to read reviews and pick the best of the worst.

replacing the valve body when you have a bad solenoid is the equivalent of replacing the head of the engine when you need a injector. Just doesn't make sense.

If you read the past thread, I replaced the solenoids 2-3K ago. All new Japanese Cobra transmission ones. So what are the chances that a new OEM solenoid goes bad?

CoolAirVw said:

Dont waste your money. Since you've allready changed the solenoid set just change the one solenoid.

Click to expand...

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, its probably a duck.

So you don't know the answer how a new solenoid can fail, yet you think I should just replace it with another one....Geesh. How is that better than me "wasting" MY MONEY by also replacing the VB while in there (and not having to worry about any other trans issues for another 200K miles)?

You'd get more respect if you could use your knowledge to explain how (or the likelihood) a new OEM solenoid can fail in 2-3K.

That's some highly technical mechanical diagnostic skills you have there.... If you don't know, you can always say you don't know.

Captain Obvious knows that any new part can fail or have a defect. Do I need to explain that?

I love the way you treat someone who is trying to help you. Wish you the best with your car problem and your back.

Folks,

Ok, I'll post. I read through this thread since I've done the solenoids on my 2005 Jetta wagon and my 2004 Jetta. Oilhammer and CoolAirVw (huge amount of experience with VWs) both posted on this thread.

VincenzaV, I read your previous post a couple days ago and thought: what in the world? who is going to respond to that? CoolAirVw was nice enough to respond and wish you the best. Sometimes replacement parts fail, sooner than when expected.

A new solenoid kit and fluid sets you back about $350 (maybe less). $350 is substanially less than a new car payment. Oh well.....