Jetta Wagon Heavy Duty/Towing Rear Springs

Our cars are available in Europe and throughout the world with different style suspensions for the different duties they must serve. Two packages that interested me were the "Towing" and the "Heavy Duty" packages. This thread in VWVortex has this very useful chart:


So, with Peter's help we imported some of the "Heavy Duty", 5-green-dots color code rear springs, VW part number 1J0 511 115 AN. According to that VWVortex color code chart, these are a higher spring rate than even the towing package springs.

Last week, I found out that one of my stock rear springs was broken, so I took the opportunity to install the heavy duty springs. I matched them with Koni FSDs, front and rear, keeping the stock front springs (now with over 100k on them).

I am very pleased. Without a load these springs raise the ride height of the vehicle around three-quarters of an inch.
(note how the rise has caused the rear wheel to move backwards slightly due to how the rear beam moves up and down)
I really like the increased ride height. This got me thinking, there are not really many options for "raising" the vehicle. Some have turned to air bags in the springs, or spring inserts in the rear, and the front can use the 12mm strut spacers. The strut spacers give more than the 12mm of raise because, but compressing the spring further, they effectively raise the spring rate. The heavy duty springs are available for the front as well, so I'm looking to get those too.

Shot comparing my "raised" wagon with Peter's "race" wagon:


Alright, so on to the important stuff. These springs are designed for those carrying heavy loads or towing consistently. So, I loaded up the rear of the vehicle with 8 cases of oil. A case of oil weighs around 34 lbs. So, almost 300 pounds of oil, all behind the rear seats. Here is the result:


Today, I loaded the vehicle with 700 pounds of parts.


I took the car for a ride while loaded, and it handled very nicely. Smoother than when unloaded, unsuprisingly, but over speed bumps and dips in the road the suspension performed perfectly.

Here is the result when edit: I think this shipment was over 1,000 pounds is loaded into a wagon with stock springs:

(note mine was packed better, so we could close the door)

So, on the fronts, I think I'm stuck with what I have. The same VWVortex page has this to say for the front springs:

So, it looks like the '03 wagon front springs have two options. 150lb for wagons with the manual transmission, and 170lb for the automatic. I'm hoping to find an automatic set within the next week to complete the set up.

cevans

actually I would like to know what springs (and struts/shocks) Peter has in his racewagon mainly because I dont haul big loads any more
sorry for the tangent

Woa!

Would these springs match up to a sedan? I travel and tow a trailer, this could help!

cevans, Your wagon looks to ride a lot like mine w /airbags and vr6 springs up front .... why didn't you try the shine springs?
PS how do you like the 16" wheels?

Cevans

Did you get towing with 4 green dots, or HD with 5 green dots?

QUOTE: So, with Peter's help we imported some of the "Heavy Duty", 4-green-dots color code rear springs, VW part number 1J0 511 115 AN. According to that VWVortex color code chart, these are a higher spring rate than even the towing package springs.

Cevans

How would you characterize the change in ride without a load?

If I can respectfully make a couple of quick corrections-

the spacers from VW are 10mm, not 12. They are cupped - and cupped the same way on the opposite side. If you measure distance from one side to the other, at any point, it's still 10mm.

compressing the spring doesn't raise the rate, it raises the intial load the springs are under. However, once you put the 1000lb down on them (the same spring, that started out the same free length), they compress way, way more - they would compress to the same final length that 1000lb would place on that spring no matter where it started. It's how the assembly was designed, I've never seen one designed like this before I saw the VW (usually they're simple linear assemblies like a coilover).



Actually I am interested to see if there is any higher-rate rear spring for sedans that isn't as long as a wagon spring.


Cheers, it's an interesting thread.

I'm running the 2 blue/2 white front springs with wagon one silver/4 brown rear springs in my sedan and it looks much like the picture of the unloaded wagon above as far as stance. I'd imagine if you ran the HD or towing wagon springs in a sedan that the rear would ride a bit higher. I'm curious too about how the HD or towing sedan springs would work out.

Spring Source?

I was just about to install new Koni FSD's in my 03 Jetta wagon 5 speed, but after reading this I would also want to install heavy duty springs at the same time.

Where can I buy the HD springs and the auto transmission springs for the front?

Thanks

If anyone can help then PM me please.

-Bruin

Gee, I somehow missed this info when I had my wagon...I had put in the VR6 sport springs in my wagon and remember it had purple dots but no one could tell me how strong those springs are.

Anyways, I wanted to add that when I put on those springs (with Koni sport struts) the rear end went down 3/8 of an inch but the front went up 3/8 of an inch. I was very pleased, I felt the car felt better with the higher front end but still had a slight rake. I also no longer worried about bottoming out onto the oil pan...

Peter has 700lb Eibach Springs. Very uncomfortable, but, loaded with 800 pound, drop very very little.

All rear A4 springs will work for any A4 platform, Jetta Wagon, Golf, New Beetle. So, these on a sedan would probably work great.

I'm of the camp that 16" wheels are the best option for these cars. Not a large hit on fuel economy because of wider tires, cheaper tires, better ride quality, on average lower weight per corner so less hit on acceleration and less wear on suspension components. The wheels I choose, the Le Castelette from VR6 Jettas I'm not a big fan of anymore because they are very difficult to clean.

Shine does not make a longer rear spring. So, shine doesn't really fit at all what I was looking to do.

These are FIVE green dot springs. I have a comparison shot of the springs I'll post in a moment.

I'll get the part number for the heavier front springs. Any VW dealer should be able to get them within a week.

I've been carrying around a full wagon all week and I am still really impressed whenever I hit a dip in the road or take a corner, even going over broken pavement there is no "heavy" feeling in the rear of the vehicle.

cevans said:

Peter has 700lb Eibach Springs. Very uncomfortable, but, loaded with 800 pound, drop very very little.

All rear A4 springs will work for any A4 platform, Jetta Wagon, Golf, New Beetle. So, these on a sedan would probably work great.

I'm of the camp that 16" wheels are the best option for these cars. Not a large hit on fuel economy because of wider tires, cheaper tires, better ride quality, on average lower weight per corner so less hit on acceleration and less wear on suspension components. The wheels I choose, the Le Castelette from VR6 Jettas I'm not a big fan of anymore because they are very difficult to clean.

Shine does not make a longer rear spring. So, shine doesn't really fit at all what I was looking to do.

These are FIVE green dot springs. I have a comparison shot of the springs I'll post in a moment.

I'll get the part number for the heavier front springs. Any VW dealer should be able to get them within a week.

I've been carrying around a full wagon all week and I am still really impressed whenever I hit a dip in the road or take a corner, even going over broken pavement there is no "heavy" feeling in the rear of the vehicle.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. I think you are on to something good here, thanks.

Kenny Blankenship said:

Gee, I somehow missed this info when I had my wagon...I had put in the VR6 sport springs in my wagon and remember it had purple dots but no one could tell me how strong those springs are.

Anyways, I wanted to add that when I put on those springs (with Koni sport struts) the rear end went down 3/8 of an inch but the front went up 3/8 of an inch. I was very pleased, I felt the car felt better with the higher front end but still had a slight rake. I also no longer worried about bottoming out onto the oil pan...

Click to expand...

were they stock or aftermarket springs?
how was the ride?

Alright, so here is what I have for the fronts. Looks like, matching paint codes with part numbers, the Wagon TDI Automatic, 2-blue 2-white is a 1J0 411 105 CD. I'll call the dealer tomorrow to see if they are in this country.

Pic of the rear springs:


This was taken on a camera phone, which warped the image, but, you can see at least a little bit of the extra length of the springs and the thicker width.

I would like to get a set of the fronts into my wagon soon - before the winter. The front (maybe with spacer) and rear together might be a nice OEM-sourced lift kit.

(PS Re: JE: in defense of my strut spacers raise the spring rate, my point was by initially compressing the spring you are trading travel for higher resistance. My idea may come from a faulty understanding: This assumes that as the spring compresses, its effective "rate" increases. Is this incorrect? So, if a spring is compressed 3 inches, if weighted an additional amount of weight, would it compress identically to a spring not initially compressed/loaded?)

edit: thinking about it more, since these are "linear rate" springs...well, I guess answers my own question!

1J0 411 105 CD

Okay, so these are available through VW in this country. I was quoted ~$125 for the pair. I know that VW dealer pricing varies throughout the country. Can anyone do better?

Don't know how I missed this in ETKA before:

The highest rate spring, the 2 white 4 blue (175lb), is a 1J0 411 105 CL.

I doubt these are stateside.

Well, the ETKA adventure continues:

There is a Model Code that specifies what the "axle weight class" is for the spring.

So, the 3 pink- 1 green code says it is an axle weight class of 791-835kg, which is the highest weight range I could find. This has the 170lb spring rate. VW part number 357 411 105 P (<- its not a 1J0??)

Meanwhile, that 2 white 4 blue is only a 721-750kg weight range, but is a 5lb higher rate.

So, my question becomes: what is the relationship between the "Weight class" and the spring rate? I'm thinking the higher weight class that isn't a stuffer spring would be a longer spring?

And, lastly, the OEM 2-blue 2-white is a 781-830kg weight class.

So, I guess I have come full circle: the 2-blue 2-white, 170lb springs that are on the TDI Automatic Wagons are probably the best for heavy loads.

Hey - if you have access to EKTA, would you be able to find what weight these springs are? They're Pink/White (or White/Pink):

je they look to be pink and violet they are listed on the color code on the previous page.

silverbox said:

je they look to be pink and violet they are listed on the color code on the previous page.

Click to expand...

To me one of the dos looks white, not pink or violet - but the springs are visibly stronger!

The VR6 I put in are thicker (.505" I think compared to the .472" from the Jetta springs), and have one less coil, all for more stiffness. Doing the math puts them a lot stronger than 153lb vs. 146lb. It definitely feels it.

would it be recomended to go with upgraded springs all around if going for the towing rear springs rather than airbags?

i'm not far away from the airbags if the car and luggage carier on the reciever are loaded, the car feels heavy in the back.

I have heard of people having trouble with the air bags for two reasons:

1) the valve in the air bags is not located conveniently, or, another way to look at it, our cars aren't designed to have a filler-tube going into an air bag. So, people have had to either drill the sheet metal above the spring mount or have the tube hanging below the bottom spring perch. One is a hassle, the other risks damage to the tube.

2) Some have reported significant leaking and failing after going through a winter. The rubber can't hold up to the colder conditions or road salt, resulting in cracking.

So, while air bags give you the option to run the vehicle without pressure, and, I'm sure, will support heavier loads initially, it doesn't seem like they are a reliable enough solution.

Took a three hour drive with my wagon loaded to the ceiling with stuff, no looseness or swaying when going over bumps or uneven surfaces.

For those that have sedans, though, why not just get a set of OEM wagon springs? We know they are longer and have a higher rate, and I'm sure they will be cheaper than a european import...

An important thing to remember when changing springs is to balance whats done on the rear with the front, otherwise the car will pitch over bumps large and small.

if changing the sedan springs out for wagon springs for a higher spring rate, would the wagon shocks be required to balance the dynamic equation of the spring/mass/damper in the system.
also,FWIW, the tire acts as a spring(non-linear) and a damper as well for those who've had the pleasure of modeling multi body dynamic equations. that's the nice thing about rubber springs is that they can be used to damp out undesireable rocking frequencies.

Hatchet Ratchet said:

if changing the sedan springs out for wagon springs for a higher spring rate, would the wagon shocks be required to balance the dynamic equation of the spring/mass/damper in the system.
also,FWIW, the tire acts as a spring(non-linear) and a damper as well for those who've had the pleasure of modeling multi body dynamic equations. that's the nice thing about rubber springs is that they can be used to damp out undesireable rocking frequencies.

Click to expand...

That's a good question that I hadn't thought about. I can say that with Koni FSDs (sedan) and wagon springs, I can't feel any adverse effects at least. I can't compare to stock when new because the original suspension was tired and in need of replacement.

Mr. Annoying said:

were they stock or aftermarket springs?
how was the ride?

Click to expand...

The springs were factory sport package springs from a VR6 wagon. Not aftermarket. I had Koni sport (yellow) struts and it rode pretty well, I had the rears adjusted to about 25-33% stiffness and the front slightly more (you have to adjust the rears off the car but the fronts can be adjusted on the car). I also had a 25mm rear sway bar to reduce the understeer. The most surprising result was the handling was more responsive. It felt great.

125 for the pair?!

The cheapest that i found these springs are for 127$ each! Im in new york but come on, some dealers wanted 140$ each. Where did you find them?

Does anyone know where to find part numbers for some of the springs listed. I would really like to try the Towing springs (2S, 3G).

Has anybody found these HD springs for the 2K5 Jetta Wagon in Canada or the USA?