Show what you tow!

Hello,

SilverGhost said:

From discussions over at the camper forums this topic was discussed to death.

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What kind of camper? I think there's a huge difference between a 5000-10,000 pound camper and a sub-1000 pound utility trailer. My tires are bound to be giggling under the "stress" of a 500-800 lb trailer.

Scott

Stealth TDI said:

Hello,
What kind of camper? I think there's a huge difference between a 5000-10,000 pound camper and a sub-1000 pound utility trailer. My tires are bound to be giggling under the "stress" of a 500-800 lb trailer.
Scott

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800-1200lb pop up trailers. A lot of fiberglass trailers are 1600-2500lbs.

Jason

The limit that is the biggest problem is the ~200 lb tongue limit and the added load to the car is not that great. VW suggests operating the rear tires at the high limit when towing.
(You have to look up the towing instructions for the Rest Of The World and not US.)
The actual towing limit is pretty high and as much as 1800 KG.
I would not use anywhere near these weight limits without the VW trailer module that detects the trailer lights and engages towing mode to fuel mapping, brakes, Cooling and the TSP stability functions.
One thing I found is that with the added weight and the trailer the rig bobs on undulating roads more that the heavier Town and Country Minivan I replaced my TDI with
On my 2013 JSW I added airbags to level the rig and that helps.
The T&C has self leveling for the rear as part of the package along with the Chrysler trailer module and added heavy duty cooling.
I miss the torque of the TDI at the start , but the T&C does a good job and is a more comfortable ride for the Wife.
The JSW TDI DSG does a good job and I towed my 2800 lb 16' Scamp with no problems even in 110* Texas heat.

Does this count as towing? Lol looks like a Polo or maybe a golf.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQ3IWeKA_XK/

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Weight, Tounge weight and Handling?

Great Looking Retro Camper... I wonder how much it Weighs, How much the tongue weight is and How does it handle ? Did you do any Mods. for breaking/Stopping safety? We are Buying a custom made 6.5 x 8 camper with a shower inside... Our will weigh in at around 1400 Lbs... we be driving an 03 JSW TDI... Thanks........ Ray

kooyajerms said:

Maiden voyage complete. Went to puddingstone for an overnight. A whole 2.7 mile drive . Watch out!

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Sorry about the ****e pic server, tried flipping that pictures over a million times. Just went to the Palm Springs vintage travel trailer show. Some really pretty specimens! Holiday home's were my favorite with that beautiful rear window.




An 03 is just a Jetta wagon btw, Don't think we ever called them JSW till 2009.

Go here for mods (somewhat) http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=473134
1500 wet I believe. tongue weight is no where near 200 pounds my dolly makes me think it's around 100-150 but I haven't weighed it.
-My brakes are larger than yours stock, I had no need to change them.
-it's all about the right hitch and that module, without it I wasn't going to pull 1500 pounds. Get a bosal for your 03, that's where the safety is. I wouldn't trust pulling with a curt hitch or something that attached superficially instead of into the bumper rail/support.
-airbags in the rear , optional

Hey, kooyajerms - I hope you are getting rid of that rear rack. More than a few people have learned about fish tailing when they loaded up something on the back of the trailer.

There is a video circulating YouTube with a RC Mustang one a tread mill. The guys are at a trade show and move a couple weights around from front to back and nudge the trailer to show the instability. It shows the worst being the rear heavy trailer.

Jason

You think the bicycle and two trikes is a bad idea? Maybe 100 pounds at most. I've seen that video before, but wasn't thinking of ever weighing down that rear for the same reason, but we also need the bicycles somewhere.

I'll load the tongue side if I need to, but the single axle still seems to never tip back, weights been on the front jack.

kooyajerms said:

You think the bicycle and two trikes is a bad idea? Maybe 100 pounds at most. I've seen that video before, but wasn't thinking of ever weighing down that rear for the same reason, but we also need the bicycles somewhere.

I'll load the tongue side if I need to, but the single axle still seems to never tip back, weights been on the front jack.

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Jeremy,

I had a similar platform on my old TowLite trailer. Used it to hold bulky, light weight stuff like in your picture. worked fine.

BUT, one day I got the bright idea of mounting a Honda generator on the rear platform (saw it done on a fifth wheel). You know where 163 freeway merges with I-15? Nice big, flat, gentle bend right? Well my trailer started fishtailing at 55 mph on a Sunday morning. Spun me around 180 degrees - tipped the trailer on its side. Did $10K in damages to SUV and trailer. Nobody hurt because it was Sunday morning light traffic on the freeway. That was 1999.

Big lesson for me. You must keep your trailer balanced and keep your tongue weight up. It is SO EASY to overload that back platform. I put the generator on a new, longer front A frame and all was fine ever after.

Yeah, that was what I was getting at. It's temping to throw it back there when you're loading up for a trip. If all you carry is bikes then I would suggest dedicated bike racks. I think Thule and/or Yakima even make over hitch racks for trailers.

Or even better carry them on the car. You'd be surprised at how much the back end of the trailer bounces around and dirt/debris that gets kicked up. Also if anything comes loose you can't see it...until you stop and realize it's gone.

Jason

If they're good (expensive) bikes, I would look at carrying them on the front of the trailer or back of the car. As silverghost said, you won't know the bikes are gone until it's too late. Of course the problem with putting them anywhere between the trailer and the car is that it may limit your turning radius.

If you're going to leave the bikes on that rear rack, I would look for a way to stand them up. Yakima makes cups that you can fit the tires into and tighten them down. It's better for the bikes, gears, and tires.

I've seen people load those racks up on the back of a vehicle so heavily that the front wheels bounce.

That tandem bike is a monster to put on top of a vehicle. Believe me, I've tried on the b4 passat. And the amount of overhang, it was never secure.

Tandem racks are extremely expensive, I've had one that fits into a 2" receiver that I found on craigslist years ago, but there's no such thing on the back of this trailer (or on gooseneck Westfalia Ball). Tandem would ride vertically into the air.

I'll get my old yakima mounts to stand them up, but it's not really changing any weight back there by doing that. Bike racks don't work very well with toddler tricycles either guys =p

Didn't realize it was a tandam. That does create a different issue.

My Mini-Cemi's last tow, picking up a bunch of new patio furniture.. yer gonna be missed




Hitch/Bags are coming off this weekend and its going back to stock before it gets returned.. hopefully I can make it 1 whole month w/out needing a trailer.

Hello,

Please tell us about the propane tank and what appears to be an antenna. Does that trailer double as a camper (propane)? Is the antenna on the trailer or the car's hitch? It's tough to see in those photos.

Scott

the trailer doubles as a recreational adventure trailer.. it has a top w/roof racks.. The propane tank is used for lighting/cooking.. the antenna is on the trailer and runs my GMRS repeater/base station and APRS tracker.




When in rec mode it has its own battery, solar generator and fridge.

Theres an ALH in there somewhere!

nice! Where'd u put the rad? I'm still gathering up stuff to hack one into the nose and cover it with a Brazilian WC grille... then I'll be slapping my ALH into it using a MK4 mount much like you did.. also notch out the fuel tank or find a way around that?

Hello,

If you've ever considered an EcoHitch, I can attest to it being a good product for the Mk7:





It was a great day to run some junk to the dump...


My plan for the wiring connector didn't work out. I'll come up with a new plan. Until then, it tucks into the bumper nicely when it's unneeded. See more details about my install HERE.

Scott

Gave her a slight paint job with the yellow stripe and redoing the wing silver. Brightened up plenty instead of that drab bronze/gold.






This was our 125mile trip to William Heise Park in Julian, CA. The campgrounds are very nice here. Clean, maintained, and good space between sites. We'll come back here for summer. She made it safely without any wagging issues. Braking on the busy 15 wasn't too bad as I kept my awareness up and watched for anyone cutting in front of me. We climbed the hills just fine at the speed limit as the grade isn't that severe for the drive up the 15/76/78/79. Only had one stop on an incline, spun the tires just slightly but got it up.
4,000 ft elevation.
I found out that our Shasta was not the dimensions as advertised to us when we bought it from the PO. Yes, I should have measured, but I just trusted the seller, silly me. I started doing some head scratching as our departure was coming and this was the first long trip.

1974 Shasta 1400.
*14ft rear to tongue (16.5ft with that rack in the rear, may remove it)
7ft 8" wide
*1650lbs dry (when it was brand new)
*245 tongue weight. (this one's the kicker, as they told us it was 160# but thats the 1500 model) Using the tow dolly, it sure doesnt feel this heavy, but maybe I need to feel what 160# tongue is like.

For those that pull heavy loads safely with their 2.0 TDI, what do you think my issue is with having the tongue weight so high? MORE Traction issues if I were to stop uphill? Should I be trying to lessen the tongue weight down to 200 by loading behind the axle and testing out some tail wagging the dog? I'll take some criticism if you're willing to help.

There are electric brakes that I can start working on, just need to figure out that system under there.

Or maybe I'm good to go as this trip has proven.

Jeremy

I think you'd be fine to reduce the tongue weight. Shouldn't have stability issues so long as you keep it at/above 10%. That should give a little more weight on the front end. You can use a weight distributing/anti sway hitch as well to transfer weight back to the front and keep it stable.

Reducing the tongue weight should be OK - BUT use a level on the frames. If the frames are level, then don't lighten it any more. I'm concerned about that rack on the back. I have a generator that I mounted a receiver for a tray like that... The generator weighs about 4000 by itself and it has about 80-100 lbs of tongue weight depending on how full the tank is.

With only about 50-60 lbs on the rack... The front got light and it got really live behind the car. Bad idea for me... Be careful for you!

Heise Park is one of my favorites! See any wild turkeys? Dos Picos is another nice park just outside Ramona.

Nice job on the paint. Much better.

I would stick with the 245 lb on the front for now. How full was the trailer water tank? 10 gallons = 80 lbs, so if you had water in the tank, there is the first place to dump weight. I used to carry one 6 gallon plastic jug in the car for water. Then fill up at my destination.

The back rack can be very useful for bulky kids toys. Mine was 36 inches wide.

kooyajerms said:

*245 tongue weight. (this one's the kicker, as they told us it was 160# but thats the 1500 model) Using the tow dolly, it sure doesnt feel this heavy, but maybe I need to feel what 160# tongue is like.
For those that pull heavy loads safely with their 2.0 TDI, what do you think my issue is with having the tongue weight so high? MORE Traction issues if I were to stop uphill? Should I be trying to lessen the tongue weight down to 200 by loading behind the axle and testing out some tail wagging the dog? I'll take some criticism if you're willing to help.
There are electric brakes that I can start working on, just need to figure out that system under there.
Or maybe I'm good to go as this trip has proven.
Jeremy

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You can keep reducing tongue weight until it starts to wag a bit or typically before that, you can put a small disturbance into the steering wheel (like a lane change), and let go and see how it responds. If it snaps back to center and the trailer falls right in line, you're still good. If it oscillates two or three times you're getting close to unstable, don't go lighter.

A fundamental solution for the problem of too much tongue weight is to lengthen the tongue. You can run a lighter tongue if it's longer, all other things being equal. 18-24 inches will make a big difference so it does not take big changes.

A good combination of frame angle and tongue weight will make it tow stable. 200lbs is a reasonable target, but also important is keep the front of the trailer slightly lower than rear (frame angle pointing down towards tow vehicle), though I do try to setup the rig up close to level. If the trail ends up nose high that can contribute to tail wagging.

Resist the urge to put weight in the back to lighten the tongue weight as this will add a pendulum effect and make sway problems worse. Better to keep heavier items lower to ground and closer to axle (middle of trailer looking front to back). Best to move heavier items off the tongue and forward storage bins of trailer, towards middle of trailer over the axle.

Mine has battery on the tongue and a mount for a generator. Gas models like mine also have propane tanks up there. I plan on moving the battery in a vented compartment further back inside the trailer. We put the generator in the car or inside the camper while driving then just lock it out side the trailer when parked. When we add propane I plan on that being the only thing on the tongue. Also the grey and black water tanks are forward of the axle so they get drained before I leave camp. Fresh water is actually over the axle (slightly behind) so I leave it full when possible.

Jason

PS, I can see that rack being a shin buster when there's not a lot on it

Thanks for the tips folks. I do appreciate it.

Turkeys were very close, behind the barb wire to the private property, but didn't spot any. You caught me on the water tank, 10gallons of 15total of tasty filtered water =) It sits in front of the axle.

Has anyone here experienced too much tongue weight before? What was it like uphill from a stop? I'm guessing if we had RWD this would be less of an issue. Theres no way it's gonna make it to 150# but I'll see what making it 200# is like.
BTW other than making that special tongue scale with the rollers and 4x4. How off is it to use a bathroom scale with wood blocks to match the height of the towball?

If you can see from the picture, the trailer does sit nose up and I wondered about that. But being that the westfalia tow ball is stationary, I have no idea how to lower that. If this was a receiver I could see a drop working in this situation, but there isn't a fix there. If the ball is the same height for most Westfalia/Bosal users, how is anyone towing without the nose up... Any ideas?

Yes, that rack is an absolute shin buster. Got the bruises to prove it


Thanks again.

kooyajerms said:

If you can see from the picture, the trailer does sit nose up and I wondered about that. But being that the westfalia tow ball is stationary, I have no idea how to lower that. If this was a receiver I could see a drop working in this situation, but there isn't a fix there. If the ball is the same height for most Westfalia/Bosal users, how is anyone towing without the nose up... Any ideas?

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Larger diameter wheels/tires on the trailer?

My utility trailer originally had 8" wheels which worked OK for short around town use, but when I had to use it to haul stuff from my late mother's house 70 miles to my home, I put on 12" ones. That got it almost level to my Bosal hitch. If I wanted to go larger, I'd have to replace the axle.

Also check condition of springs/axle. If it has a Dexter torsion axle it most likely has sagged and needs to be replaced. I haven't seen many leaf spring campers, but it's also possible for the leaves to flatten out with age. At least with leaf springs you can "band aid" it with helper springs, in the short term.

Alternatively you can work on a lift kit or simply larger diameter tires to raise the axle.

Jason

I'm not accustomed to the leaf springs that it has (haven't worked on much beyond VW's), so I don't know how to determine if its sagging or not. Guess that could be the issue I need to look into regarding the nose up. Pretty rusty under there for sure.

but yeah these are 15x5j 4.5 standard trailer wheels, off the top of my head the tire is 205/75r15 . Don't think going any bigger there will help.

Did a quick 2 nighter in a park 40 mins from our house.

DSC09865 by DerekG710, on Flickr

DSC09751 by DerekG710, on Flickr


Heading off to Palo Duro with my brother next week to mountain bike and hike...should be a good trip report.