All-wheel drive TDI

Poked around here about a year ago, and a couple of quick peeks today lead me to ask this newbie question. Are there any all-wheel drive TDIs? We live in a remote location in national forest where our driveway is anything but flat and not at all smooth. Right now there is about a foot of fresh snow on the ground, etc. Three specific related questions, both conditional on the existence of all-wheel drive TDIs:

1.) What is the complete list of years and model choices for all-wheel drive TDIs?

2.) What are the advantages and disadvantages of these choices?

3.) Are any of the all-wheel drive choices equipped with selectable all-wheel drive?

Of course, fuel economy goes down with the extra drag of all-wheel drive. So, insights about fuel economy are also welcomed.

Thanks for your considerations,
~~~^^^larry^^^~~~

Volkswagen T'reg

Audi Q7, Q5, A6, A7, A8

Porsche Cayenne

Of course, with any of those vehicle, fuel economy isn't really a high on the priority list given the expense in purchasing and owning one, however they do consume far less than their gas counterparts. With the exception of the early T'reg that is a 5.0L V10, the rest are 3.0L V6s.

Thanks. Lots of choices then. I will be checking them out. Can anyone add included model years for these models oilhammer IDed?
Saw a few older Cayennes listed for around $10K.
Eager here to plug in more details across the broad range of all-wheel drive TDIs .

from my understanding the t'reg chews through DEF fluid also since the DEF tank needs to be refilled every 5000 miles from what vw told me that's a deal breaker for me!!

Doesn't your fuel tank require filling every so many miles too? Why is the DEF such a difficulty?

belome said:

Doesn't your fuel tank require filling every so many miles too? Why is the DEF such a difficulty?

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Other than the fact that the designers buried the darn fill port under the spare tire, it isn't. Of course, some people drive around with a trunk full of useless crap, so that may be an issue to have to unload it every time to fill the urea tank.

Still pokin' around. Looking in the classifieds, I have not found a way to isolate the subgroup of TDIs for sale that have all-wheel drive. there are some conversion threads for adding all-wheel drive, which seems to be referred to as "4 motion". Putting '4 motion' into the Forums search box brings up some random posts that include '4 motion', but does not lead towards a nice result showing all-wheel drive tdis for sale. is there no slick way to narrow a search for 'all-wheel drive' tdis for sale?
thanks again,
~~~^^^larry^^^~~~

All of the above vehicles I mentioned are all AWD, always. You cannot buy them in 2WD form.

Volkswagen uses the "4motion" or "4Xmotion" moniker, whereas Audi still sticks with the decades old "quattro" (small 'q') moniker.

I think Porsche used to just put a "4" in the name, but since all the Cayennes regardless of engine are AWD, they don't bother.

All T'regs and Q7s, and the bigger Audis, are also always AWD, regardless of engine. You may be able to buy the current A6 in FWD form with a gas 4cyl, though.

krel said:

from my understanding the t'reg chews through DEF fluid also since the DEF tank needs to be refilled every 5000 miles from what vw told me that's a deal breaker for me!!

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Def is $2.59 a gallon. Reason for DEF is to reduce the use of EGR. My 14 Ram 3500 uses DEF and I will gladly take DEF over more egr.

krel said:

from my understanding the t'reg chews through DEF fluid also since the DEF tank needs to be refilled every 5000 miles from what vw told me that's a deal breaker for me!!

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If a few dollars of DEF is a deal breaker, then I'm not sure what to tell you. All of the other system components are another story, however.

The only 4WD/AWD non-DEF TDI available in the United States is the 2004 Touareg V10, of which only 450 were built. Prepare to spend big bucks on maintenance to keep such a machine on the road... you have to pay to play.

If you want 4WD/AWD with low range and locking differentials, then you will need to narrow your search to the Touareg V10 (2004, 2006, 2007) and V6 TDIs up until the 2011 model year when the 3rd generation was introduced and low range and locking differentials were dropped in favor of a standard AWD setup.

If you are fine with regular AWD instead of the more complex 4WD setup, then you can expand your search into the other categories that oilhammer listed, including the new Touaregs, all of the Audis, and the Porsche Cayenne.

I would search on Auto Trader... you can do an advanced search and narrow things down with AWD/4WD and diesel.

If you're looking for diesel and are willing to go outside of the Volkswagen Group, then look at Mercedes, Jeep, and BMW... all three offer AWD/4WD diesel SUVs or sedans.

Here is a list of Auto Trader search results for AWD/4WD + diesel within 100 miles of your zip code, 2004 and newer, sorted by lowest price first. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...startYear=2004&vehicleStyleCodes=AWD4WD&Log=0

Unfortunately, the list is very cluttered with pickup trucks.

belome said:

Doesn't your fuel tank require filling every so many miles too? Why is the DEF such a difficulty?

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it's not difficult to fill the def tank but it seems like to chews through def vs something like an x5 or a gl 350 wich don't need to be refilled until every 10,000 miles

Maybe the all-wheel drive diesels are like the ugly sister: i mean, don't see a discussion group here specifically focused on all-wheelers, and can't seem to easily sort them from classified ads. the good news there seem to be more models and years on the market than i thought.
I am interested in fuel economy. will look to rank the options across brands and models by fuel economy. would like to get 40+ mpg. i do have a natural inclination towards bmws, having owned an 1972 R75/5 since 1974. that's the first of their modern motorcycles. but i digress.
currently have 3 pass cars: 2007 Civic Hybrid (gets most of the miles); 2006 Forester w/hitch (does most of the grunt work); and, 2006 Jag X-type (read, fancy ford taurus used as a repair backup and the roomy option).
the plan is to move the Cat, trading it for more grunt torque plus getting another 40+ mpg runner in the mix. if that same fuel efficient runner with towing was roomy too, then compromise is not a word that is needed.
that said, can anyone vouch for any diesel, all-wheel drive units that:
-- get 40-ish mpg highway,
-- tow well pulling modest trailer loads (not big RVs or boats), and
-- seat 4 people nice and comfy?
anyone with such a unit want to trade for a 2006 Jag X-type, dark metallic blue with white interior in good shape mechanically and otherwise?
sorry for being long-winded here. morning coffee ...
~~~^^^crossing_patoka^^^~~~

If I were serious about something like that I would be looking into conversion threads. Have seen some in the past, usually Passat platform.
Maybe more results over (can I say it here ?) on vwvortex.

maybe that's the thread i stumbled onto yesterday. don't see it right now, though. something about a stock 6-speed mt and adding an all-wheel drive kit ordered from europe. sounded like there was a wait list for getting the parts. suggested alternative (if i read correctly) was import that configuration, as it is a production model in europe.
yes, i would consider converting. what i lack in shop stuff and know-how is available in my community. any thoughts about what specific model(s)/year(s) of the passat works best as a starting platform?

How many things get over 40mpg in the first place, let alone with space, ground clearance and AWD?

Probably easier to have multiple vehicles. Probably works better too in each of the desired catagories.

oilhammer said:

Other than the fact that the designers buried the darn fill port under the spare tire, it isn't.

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Wow, I had no idea. That seems crazy.

i take your point supton. for the tdi, prime consideration is for the workhorse, trailering car, with some comfort space.

but, with the Cat and the Forester getting sub-25 mpg, the plan is make a switch from sub-25 to something at least closer to 40 that has more grunt and tug than the Forester. keep the Forester cause my wife is most comfortable in it, for now, and find the Cat a new home sooner rather than later. the Forester might want to get replaced in a year, or so, with a plug-in electric. so the mix might ultimately look like:
-- 07 Civic Hybrid (run about and long light trips),
-- ?? TDI (comfort, loads & towing with durability, probably a wagon),
-- ?? plug-in electric (with some solar panels being installed this year).

still offering the Cat for trade, if anyone is interested.

~~~^^^crossing_patoka^^^~~~

I doubt you will realistically achieve 40+ mpg with an 4motion TDI converted Passat, and as much as I like the idea, my solution is to keep my 1999 5.7 GMC Suburban 4x4 around for utility duty I can't handle with the Jetta.
I don't use it often, but when I do it's sure nice.

krel said:

from my understanding the t'reg chews through DEF fluid also since the DEF tank needs to be refilled every 5000 miles from what vw told me that's a deal breaker for me!!

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Wrong. T3 will go approx. 8,000 - 10,000 miles, depending on conditions.

belome said:

Wow, I had no idea. That seems crazy.

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No crazier than having to pop the hood to fill your windshield washer tank.

A DEF fill is good for 8,000 - 10,000 miles on a T3.

IFRCFI said:

No crazier than having to pop the hood to fill your windshield washer tank.
A DEF fill is good for 8,000 - 10,000 miles on a T3.

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I don't usually carry luggage, toolboxes, pet carriers, first aid kits and god knows what else under my hood that I need to remove to fill the washer fluid reservoir.

I mean, I get you don't have to do it often, but it is still an odd place.

oilhammer said:

All of the above vehicles I mentioned are all AWD, always. You cannot buy them in 2WD form.

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Learned something new. I thought you could still get any of those set ups as either 2wd or 4wd. Helps explain a very minor part of the price.

You could always build your own…

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=69668

krel said:

from my understanding the t'reg chews through DEF fluid also since the DEF tank needs to be refilled every 5000 miles from what vw told me that's a deal breaker for me!!

Click to expand...

You should only need to fill the DEF with every oil change, which is 10,000M, or about 16,000km.

belome said:

I don't usually carry luggage, toolboxes, pet carriers, first aid kits and god knows what else under my hood that I need to remove to fill the washer fluid reservoir.
I mean, I get you don't have to do it often, but it is still an odd place.

Click to expand...

Yeah, i agree. Something accessible under the hood would have great, but then you have the heat the entire system rather than just the tank. The mix can freeze, so heating a tank is just easier.

How fussy is IN with importing? There's TONS of 4Motion B5/B5.5 Passats in Europe with the torsen AWD, manual option and rated above 40mpg for highway driving. My thoughts were importing the car as "parts" and swapping everything over into a U.S. VIN vehicle if it's allowed there? Just thinking out loud...with the Westfaila hitch I routinely tow a 2500-3000lb camper behind my car and it's rock solid. No need for a Suburban for me. (Although I miss my old 6.5L...)

crossing_patoka said:

i take your point supton. for the tdi, prime consideration is for the workhorse, trailering car, with some comfort space.

but, with the Cat and the Forester getting sub-25 mpg, the plan is make a switch from sub-25 to something at least closer to 40 that has more grunt and tug than the Forester. keep the Forester cause my wife is most comfortable in it, for now, and find the Cat a new home sooner rather than later. the Forester might want to get replaced in a year, or so, with a plug-in electric. so the mix might ultimately look like:
-- 07 Civic Hybrid (run about and long light trips),
-- ?? TDI (comfort, loads & towing with durability, probably a wagon),
-- ?? plug-in electric (with some solar panels being installed this year).

still offering the Cat for trade, if anyone is interested.

~~~^^^crossing_patoka^^^~~~

Click to expand...

blujett2.0 said:

How fussy is IN with importing? There's TONS of 4Motion B5/B5.5 Passats in Europe with the torsen AWD, manual option and rated above 40mpg for highway driving. My thoughts were importing the car as "parts" and swapping everything over into a U.S. VIN vehicle if it's allowed there? Just thinking out loud...with the Westfaila hitch I routinely tow a 2500-3000lb camper behind my car and it's rock solid. No need for a Suburban for me. (Although I miss my old 6.5L...)

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Did you see the link in my post above? It has been done!

1854sailor said:

Did you see the link in my post above? It has been done!

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lol I was reading through that thread...THAT is some serious dedication! I was thinking it might be easier to tackle if you had the WHOLE car???

I think the expectation of a full size AWD vehicle that can tow a moderate amount of weight that is going to get 40+ MPG is a bit of a stretch.

A new Touareg V6 TDI will get in the high 20s to low 30s, have plenty of room for the family on trips, and fulfill the AWD requirement. If you need bigger than that, you're talking about moving up to a Q7 for the mostly useless 3rd row seating... same engine, similar fuel economy, more expensive.