Car won't start troubleshooting

volkaholic said:

OK, replaced the fuel filter tonight, made sure to fill it completely, used vacuum hand pump to make sure fuel coming from the tank, put it all back together, crank crank crank,,, nothing, took 1 injector loose at the head, put a paper towel around it, crank crank crank, nothing, not a drop of fuel. what the heck?

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The only experience I have under those circumstances, was with a bad IP.

Prior to that the engine was hard to start, and often needed bump starting. Then while running, it developed a big surge of power, then it failed to run. Mileage was about 157kmiles. Hopefully you find something different.

volkaholic said:

OK, replaced the fuel filter tonight, made sure to fill it completely, used vacuum hand pump to make sure fuel coming from the tank, put it all back together, crank crank crank,,, nothing, took 1 injector loose at the head, put a paper towel around it, crank crank crank, nothing, not a drop of fuel. what the heck?

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I prescribe an IV od D2 attached to the hood of the car and hooked up to the inlet of the injection pump.

Worst case is that the pump is dead from not changing the fuel filter.

volkaholic said:

OK, replaced the fuel filter tonight, made sure to fill it completely, used vacuum hand pump to make sure fuel coming from the tank

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Where did you connect the vacuum pump?

Connect it to the return line from the IP to the filter. Are you able to draw clear fuel (no bubbles) from the tank, through the filter and through the IP?

Simon

vacuum line was from the tank only, to make sure it was not a plug between the tank and the filter. Will it pull through the pump? I can try that. Also, I can hear the N109 solenoid on the pump click, but maybe it is stuck closed. I have read of o-ring slippage. Can the solenoid be removed and bench tested? could I pull it, put in a plug and see if i get fuel then, just as a test?

You need to bleed the pump before chasing failed parts.

tonight I took of the return line at the filter, hooked up the vac pump and pulled 20" Hg and it held steady, I got about 20ml of fuel, how do I "bleed the pump"?

You need to get the air put of the pump. If you are having trouble pulling a vacuum there, you can pull the fitting out and take the fitting to a hydraulic shop and get an adapter that you will screw into the pump and hook onto your hose. Then pump your mityvac to that fitting and pump until you have clear fuel.

Or you can rig up an IV of fuel which is a container of some sort with a fitting in the bottom that runs down to the inlet of the pump. Fill it with clean fuel and let it gravity bleed until it comes out the outlet fitting on the pump.

Then crack the injection lines and crank until you have fuel there, lock everything down and it should start.

whitedog said:

Then crack the injection lines and crank until you have fuel there, lock everything down and it should start.

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This assumes that the IP is pumping, and that all pathways (including valves controlled by solenoids) are working. I know, I have been there, with a failed IP.

If the IP is not working properly, bleeding the injector line may not work at all, which is a concern.

VChristian said:

This assumes that the IP is pumping, and that all pathways (including valves controlled by solenoids) are working. I know, I have been there, with a failed IP.

If the IP is not working properly, bleeding the injector line may not work at all, which is a concern.

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Exactly. Since this car has only had the fuel filter changed twice in 276,000 miles, I wouldn't be surprised if it's dead.

whitedog said:

Exactly. Since this car has only had the fuel filter changed twice in 276,000 miles, I wouldn't be surprised if it's dead.

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IPs fail for other reason, and IP failure at 276,000 miles could be due to other causes.

volkaholic is looking for information and help, and that is what we are here to provide.

I think the situation now is:

1. There is flow of fuel from the tank, through the IP to the outlet of the IP. Apparently there are not copious bubbles, which would indicate a leak between the tank and the pump, or in the seal of the pump.

2. It is unknown if the pump is drawing fuel, on it's own, or has volkaholic determined that he can see small bubbles going from the fuel filter to the pump while cranking?

3. It is known that no fuel is coming out of the IP to injector lines, or at least one of them.

volkaholic, I assume you have a VE pump, and wonder if you have tried checking the power to the shutoff solenoid? (during cranking) Do you have access to a solenoid that you can swap out?

I think I have some VE pump documentation. volkaholic, send me a PM if you would like it.

If power is going to the solenoid, and rotation of the IP is happening (during cranking), and there is fuel to be had at the inlet of the pump, and no fuel is going to the injectors, then I can only think of two states possible:

1. The IP is not working and needs service
2. The IP needs appropriate signals from the ECU, which it is not getting.

At this point, I would chase #2, and see if there is someone who knows what those signals are, and can help you verify them. Perhaps with VDCS. Knowing the ECU/IP interface would be very nice.

I have also seen the QA shaft stuck which would throw a code.

I'm not convinced that the IP is bled which is why I suggest an IV hook-up to feed the pump with gravity. Another option would be a squeeze pump like from a boat to push fuel through the pump. Once fuel is fed through, the pump, if it still won't start, then we can look at problems with the pump.

I believe volkaholic indicated there were no codes.

Additionally, volkaholic indicated yesterday that he sucked fuel through the filter, and the IP to the return line. He reported pulling about 20ml. I would probably pull about 300 ml. However, he has checked the system through the IP.

I guess I'm just a little OCD about things like making sure the pump is bled when dealing with people on the interwebs. Many times people have asked a question and they said that they did that for 100% sure and it turns out they didn't do it right. If I a problem with getting fuel to the injectors, and I think the pump is bled, I'm going to push fuel through the pump to be 100% sure. I have a weed sprayer adapted for just this purpose.

volkaholic said:

tonight I took of the return line at the filter, hooked up the vac pump and pulled 20" Hg and it held steady, I got about 20ml of fuel, how do I "bleed the pump"?

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VChristian said:

Additionally, volkaholic indicated yesterday that he sucked fuel through the filter, and the IP to the return line. He reported pulling about 20ml. I would probably pull about 300 ml. However, he has checked the system through the IP.

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IMHO pulling 20ml does not constitute checking the system for air leaks or confirming that the pump has no air in it. Holding steady at 20" Hg also sounds a bit high to me, I would expect flow down to about 10 or 15".

I would want to pull at least 300ml while pumping to maintain about 30" Hg. I would want at least 100ml after the last bubble exited the pump, and to see no bubbles in the clear line entering the pump.

Simon

I don't know, I think you guys are over thinking this. I've installed a dry pump twice in mine, both times I just sucked on a piece of clear tube (from the IP return line) for a minute or so and got solid fuel. Hook it up, crack the injector nuts a bit, you should a steady spray.

ok, I got it running, I took out the IP start/stop solenoid, pulled supply and return hoses off at the filter, and used an old cc heading syringe to manually fill the lines until fuel came out the hole at the solenoid, put is all back together, it fired right up! not to self, change the fuel filter more often than every 150k! seems like once a year makes sense. thanks for the help. I'm going to take it for a drive to make sure it is ready for work tomorrow.

Good job Whitey!

Volk - glad you got it running.

Question - if the engine turns over, but doesn't catch, is the instrument cluster necessarily not suspect? Just curious, a friend wasn't able to start their 2001 Beetle TDI, I thought it was fuel related, but initial thought by their shop was a MIL indicating intermittent instrument cluster electrical problem.

Don't think there is anything in the cluster that will keep it from starting. The ignition switch can though.

relay 109, air in the lines, but I don't recall a cluster being an issue. I'd try to eliminate other issues first. History is helpful if you/he want to troubleshoot.

Been working a crank and no start issue for the last few days. A stuck stop/start soleniod appears to have been my problem. I didn't even remove mine, but simply connected 12 volts to it directly to cycle it a few times with the engine off. This appears to have unstuck it as I was getting no hints of it firing up with a strong crank before. It started right up afterwards.

lord_snot said:

Been working a crank and no start issue for the last few days. A stuck stop/start soleniod appears to have been my problem. I didn't even remove mine, but simply connected 12 volts to it directly to cycle it a few times with the engine off. This appears to have unstuck it as I was getting no hints of it firing up with a strong crank before. It started right up afterwards.

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Good info. Thanks.

no cranking

The dash lights in my 98 beetle tdi went off and on last night, then this morning it wouldn't crank over but the lights and fan work..... any ideas?

Im kinda thinking relay....

First make sure that the battery cables are clean and tight at both ends. Next, check the cable to the starter.

Jetta is dead - out of ideas...

So I've read through a lot of the threads and watched YouTube videos, but I'm at a complete loss as to why my '02 Jetta ALH TDI is dead. And you guys are my last hope before having to pay some garage a lot of money to figure it out/fix it...

Let me describe what happened.

I bought the car last July and it had 350k miles on it and the owner told me the A/C didn't work. I followed some advice in other threads on here to try and fix the A/C (replaced the thermo switch/sensor, replaced the fuse on top of the battery, replaced one of the fans), charge was fine, ran out of ideas there, had a couple garages look at it, they all ripped me off and didn't fix it. Finally figured out the issue seemed to be electrical and after reading some of the threads here, decided to replace the J293 relay which is bolted under the battery.

I was going to grab one out of a junk car at the local junkyard, so I pulled out the battery to see what tools I would need to remove it. Pulled out the battery box (container?) to see underneath. Put everything back together EXACTLY how it was and the car was completely dead... nothing, no interior lights, no instrument panel (odometer was dead too, which never happens), putting the key in does nothing, no alerts, no warning alarms with the door open, etc. Scan tool doesn't work as it's powered off the car.

Battery is new as of this past November, reads 12.11 volts with multimeter. Pulled every fuse in the panel on the side of the dashboard and all are ok. Replaced the 109 relay. Did parasitic drain test, reads .05ma which is what it's supposed to. Still no power... have removed and reinstalled the battery multiple times to see if magically it would come back to life, but no luck...
Fuses on top of the battery are fine, checked the grounds (3 under battery, 1 on transmission, 1 under wipers) seem fine to me, but I don't know if there is something I should be specifically looking at them for...

I'm stumped and I REALLY need it back running again... spending over a $100 a week driving to work in my gas guzzling truck...

Please Please can anyone help me???

Obviously something major came loose when pulling the battery. Start checking voltage at the fuse box on the battery and then in the car. Someplace you will find that you have lost power.

How do I do that? Leave the battery connected and test the positive to the connections in the fuse box on top of the battery? What setting on the multimeter should I use for that and what numbers should I be seeing?

I'm not trying to be mean but you need to find someone to help you. It may cost you a half rack of beer to get someone, but it would be too much to walk you through everything.

Understood... that's actually why I posted here, have asked tons of people for help with no luck...looks like I'm getting it towed to a garage. Thanks anyway.

I think that there is a member here from Nashua. You might post in your regional section for help.