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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old September 21st, 2018, 16:58   #1
alex_tdi
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Question swoosh swoosh = timing belt, alternator, water pump?

Hi,

I last replaced my water pump and alternator about 7 years ago.

January 2006 @ 64k = timing belt (100k version) / water pump (plastic) / serpentine belt
February 2010 @ 118K miles = water pump (metal) due to plastic pump failure
October 2010 @ 126k = alternator (Bosch)
March 2011 @ 131k = timing belt (100k)
January 2018 @ 180K = serpentine belt (Continental)
February 2018 @ 181k = idler pulley (serpentine belt side)
September 2018 @ 184k = current mileage

I started noticing a swoosh swoosh sound on cold morning starts recently.

The timing belt alooks good to me, but the sound makes me a little nervous.







Here are the videos with the engine running:

https://youtu.be/xfyWctx9LYw

https://youtu.be/9YSpvPayc5U

The water pump and alternator has about 60K and 8 years on them. The timing belt/tensioner/pulley has about 50K and should last 100k.

I checked the alternator and it spins smoothly. Found out it was a solid pulley. I replaced the idler pulley too but the old one spun smoothly and the sound didn't change.

I don't want to start throwing parts at it willy nilly, so what do you guys recommend I do?

Thanks.

Alex

Last edited by alex_tdi; September 22nd, 2018 at 02:38.
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Old September 21st, 2018, 17:21   #2
Tdijarhead
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Hmmm alh timing belt, 100,000 miles or 5 years 7 at most. Sounds to me like you’re over due.


I just reread your post also, why does the water pump have 60k and the belt have 50k? The water pump, rollers, tensioner and stretch bolts should all have been done together.

Last edited by Tdijarhead; September 22nd, 2018 at 03:21.
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Old September 21st, 2018, 21:23   #3
STDOUBT
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I can't tell where the wooshing is coming from, but I agree with Tdijarhead.
Your best move is have the timing belt and serp belt replaced along with all the rollers/idlers water pump, etc. That's all done during a normal TB replacement.
Check
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044
for a mechanic.
Also, not sure but it looks like there's some play in the fuel pump sprocket. Even if it's something simple like the serp belt tensioner wheel, you should really have her re-done.
At least have a Trusted mechanic look at it.
EDIT: Just re-read your service list. Not replacing the TB and water pump together is not recommended. All that poop should be done at once.
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Last edited by STDOUBT; September 21st, 2018 at 21:26.
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Old September 22nd, 2018, 04:15   #4
Genesis
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As I said in the other thread, touch the SIDE of the belt when the swooshing sound is being made with a candle or other wax thing (e.g. zipper wax works too.) If the sound STOPS or changes you have something in the timing belt system that is causing the belt to run slightly cockeyed on the pulleys -- and that is bad news.

The usual culprits are the water pump or tensioner bearings, although it could be one of the rollers as well. In any event if you have a failure in there you're buying a cylinder head, so.... yeah. It sounds like you're due for timing belt replacement anyway, but if you want to make sure it's not in the serpentine path remove that belt temporarily and see if you still get the sound.
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Old September 22nd, 2018, 05:01   #5
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Agree, remove the serpentine belt first, will
Tell you if it's simple thing like serpentine tensioner.
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Old September 22nd, 2018, 05:06   #6
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It is almost-certainly not the tensioner, but removing the belt is a good idea since it COULD be one of the pulley items in the serpentine path (e.g. power steering bearing going bad.)

The "swoosh" sound comes from the side of the belt in question intermittently "skidding" on the edge of one of the pulleys; it makes the noise each time that deformed piece of the belt gets to the pulley in question. It indicates that the belt has stretched or deformed unevenly and that comes from either a defect in the belt itself or misalignment somewhere in the path. The reason it stops when the car warms up is that the edge of the belt gets hot from that friction and the edge slightly melts and conforms -- which is double-plus un-good, and then when the car is off for a while it cools back down and starts making noise again. If you hit the edge with a dry (and safe) lubricant like wax and it stops you have a positive ID on what's going on (but not which pulley or item is causing it)
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Old September 22nd, 2018, 07:32   #7
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From what I could hear, it sounded similar to my decoupler crapped out on me. Are you certain it's a solid pulley and not a failing decoupler

Happened after it sat for a few months

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Old September 22nd, 2018, 09:52   #8
alex_tdi
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@Genesis -- yes, I will try the candle trick. I just need to find a candle. I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I started this one.


@grattanboy -- so I can just take off the serpentine belt and start the engine? That won't harm anything?

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Old September 22nd, 2018, 11:28   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_tdi View Post
@Genesis -- yes, I will try the candle trick. I just need to find a candle. I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I started this one.


@grattanboy -- so I can just take off the serpentine belt and start the engine? That won't harm anything?
It won't hurt anything, just won't have AC, power steering or charging, you'll see the battery light but won't hurt anything

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Old September 25th, 2018, 19:20   #10
alex_tdi
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So I took off the serpentine belt and started the engine, no sound!
I rotated all the pulley and rollers and they all spin pretty smoothly without sound.
I did notice some gunk stuck in the grooves of the alternator pulley. Picked it out. It was tiny, about the size of two gains of sand.
Put the belt back on and no more sound!
However, this morning it was colder and the same sound is back but much much less perceivable. So I think I will just change the alternator pulley since it's either a solid one or a clutched one that's gone bad.
Thanks for all your help!
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Old September 25th, 2018, 21:17   #11
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Could the gunk stuck in the grooves be belt coming apart?
I would brush/clean the grooves all the way around and try a new belt, if the pulley feels good
Quote:
alternator has about 60K and 8 years/
Alternator should last >100k IME
The belt itself is cheaper, unless you're 100% sure it's not been deformed maybe start there.
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Last edited by STDOUBT; September 25th, 2018 at 21:20. Reason: (Alternator should last >100k IME)
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Old September 25th, 2018, 21:42   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_tdi View Post
So I took off the serpentine belt and started the engine, no sound!
I rotated all the pulley and rollers and they all spin pretty smoothly without sound.
I did notice some gunk stuck in the grooves of the alternator pulley. Picked it out. It was tiny, about the size of two gains of sand.
Put the belt back on and no more sound!
However, this morning it was colder and the same sound is back but much much less perceivable. So I think I will just change the alternator pulley since it's either a solid one or a clutched one that's gone bad.
Thanks for all your help!
You could try spraying some pb blaster in the decoupler and see if it stops making noise, either way it seems like it needs to be replaced... especially if you can't get it to free spin a little while holding it and rocking it back and forth. If it's in the car when you check it, don't smash a finger like I did...that sucked

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Old September 25th, 2018, 23:03   #13
alex_tdi
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@stdoubt -- I think it's from the old belt which I replaced 4k miles in January. The new Continental belt still looks good. I will clean it a bit more with a wire brush or something this time.



@wildchild 80 -- When I last tested the pulley, I stuck in a screw driver into the alternator so the coolin fins won't move. I then tried to turn it both ways. It didn't move both ways. With the screw driver removed, it spins quite smoothly.


Good idea on the PB blaster on the decoupler (I'm assuming that's aka pulley). I will try and report back.
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Old September 26th, 2018, 01:26   #14
Tdijarhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_tdi View Post

@wildchild 80 -- When I last tested the pulley, I stuck in a screw driver into the alternator so the coolin fins won't move. I then tried to turn it both ways. It didn't move both ways. With the screw driver removed, it spins quite smoothly.
The pulley should move in one direction and not the other. So your pulley needs replacing.

And that still leaves you with a 50k mile 7 YEAR old timing belt. As i mentioned earlier, though you are well within the 100k mile limit, 7 years is about the time limit on these belts.


Edit: I just saw your other thread where you’re planning on doing the belt.

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Old September 26th, 2018, 04:45   #15
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The bearings and one-way mechanism in the pulley are supposed to be sealed. If PB Blaster helps then the seal is obviously no longer a seal and the pulley requires immediate replacement anyway.
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