Slipping Clutch after delete/tune - go back to stock?

Koloss · Jun 23, 2020

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I figure it's worth a shot.

In early May, I did the Rawtek ECO exhaust kit and a Malone Stage 1 on my 2015 GSW 6MT. A few days ago I noticed some odd behavior when I was stomping it in the torque band, and over the past two days I've determined the stock clutch is slipping (I've had a clutch slip in past vehicles so I'm 99% that's what is going on).

Anyway, I like the Rawtek & Malone combo, but had I known the all-in cost to go this route, I can't say I'd do it again. I know this sounds crazy on an enthusiast board, but would reverting back to stock (all emissions back on and remove the tune) effectively "fix" the slipping clutch, or once it starts, does it go out regardless of power levels?

Lightflyer1 · Jun 23, 2020

Going back will not stop it but it may slow it down if you stop stomping on it. The stock clutch will not handle the power if you are constantly stomping on it. You can leave it alone and drive normally and it will be okay. Or you can change the clutch out to something more appropriate.

tjg · Jun 23, 2020

If you upgrade your clutch.... you can go malone stage 2 >

honestly though, if your clutch started slipping with the stage 1, I'd imagine it was getting fairly tired anyways.

Koloss · Jun 23, 2020

Lightflyer1 said:
Going back will not stop it but it may slow it down if you stop stomping on it. The stock clutch will not handle the power if you are constantly stomping on it. You can leave it alone and drive normally and it will be okay. Or you can change the clutch out to something more appropriate.

I assumed that would be the case

Now to find out how bad the NVH can be on a diesel, with a single mass flywheel, stage 2 clutch, and rear engine mount insert with the AC on

Lightflyer1 · Jun 23, 2020

Once it starts slipping it can get glazed and then nothing will help much other than a new one. Why go SMF? IIRC there are better DMF out there.

adjat84th · Jun 23, 2020

Do NOT put a SMF on your car..it WILL beat your synchros to death and will need replacing in short order. You would be lucky to get 20k miles out of it. These newer 02Q transmissions have steel synchros (not brass like in the older ones and 02M gearboxes), and the vibration pulses will eventually break the tabs off of the synchros leaving you without the respective gear.

Ask Mark to dial back your fueling just a little to save your current clutch, should not cost much or anything to adjust the tune. If you decide to upgrade, grab a Sachs SRE organic disc and fresh DMF..it's a fantastic clutch with 400ft-lb capacity.

Oh, and your slipping..is it the revs increasing without a matching acceleration? Or, is it a shaking vibration below 2300rpm? If the latter, you have an aging DMF and/or the added torque with your tune is having it bottom out in the spring travel of the two masses of flywheel.

Yourbuddysatin · Jun 23, 2020

NO SINGLE MASS FLYWHEEL!!!!! like stated above you will be throwing a trans in quick. Get a Sachs HD clutch kit or get a south bend and upgrade your tune.

OhCdn · Jun 23, 2020

Koloss said:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I figure it's worth a shot.

In early May, I did the Rawtek ECO exhaust kit and a Malone Stage 1 on my 2015 GSW 6MT. A few days ago I noticed some odd behavior when I was stomping it in the torque band, and over the past two days I've determined the stock clutch is slipping (I've had a clutch slip in past vehicles so I'm 99% that's what is going on).

Anyway, I like the Rawtek & Malone combo, but had I known the all-in cost to go this route, I can't say I'd do it again. I know this sounds crazy on an enthusiast board, but would reverting back to stock (all emissions back on and remove the tune) effectively "fix" the slipping clutch, or once it starts, does it go out regardless of power levels?

that's a big if, if the the clutch is slipping from being old then its done but if its because you just don't have enough pressure to hold the power you are putting out then its a very possible save if you downgrade everything back.

adjat84th · Jun 24, 2020

I wouldn't put anything back on the car, that seems like a nightmare.
The difference in power between a stock tune and a deleted tune is not all that much, but tuners know what to do to limit low end torque just a touch to save DMF shudder and it would be the same approach for the clutch. If the tune was dialed down just a little, and it started slipping again..time to upgrade

Mongler98 · Jun 24, 2020

Upgrade the clutch to the best you can afford. Stage 2 or 3 max street church of your choice.
Once it starts slipping its toast. No going back. Have the flywheel turned if it's in good shape or just replace it. Some go lighter on the flywheel but I'm not big into these newer cars so best to check with others. Imo go with a quality upgrade that will handle anything you can afford in the future. It's the one part that you should future proof as far as street drivability should go.

turbobrick240 · Jun 24, 2020

The Sachs SRE kit would be ideal, but a new stock clutch should hold that tune for a good long time. The stock clutch held my Malone stage 3 tune for over 50K miles.

Lightflyer1 · Jun 24, 2020

If I was going in there I would get something better than stock, just in case.

adjat84th · Jun 24, 2020

Lightflyer1 said:
If I was going in there I would get something better than stock, just in case.

Totally agree, and the Sachs in my opinion couldn't feel any more stock like with the added comfort that nobody is likely to ever break the 400ft-lb rating with an EA288 unless they're running nitrous.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Koloss · Jun 24, 2020

adjat84th said:
Do NOT put a SMF on your car..it WILL beat your synchros to death and will need replacing in short order. You would be lucky to get 20k miles out of it. These newer 02Q transmissions have steel synchros (not brass like in the older ones and 02M gearboxes), and the vibration pulses will eventually break the tabs off of the synchros leaving you without the respective gear.

Ask Mark to dial back your fueling just a little to save your current clutch, should not cost much or anything to adjust the tune. If you decide to upgrade, grab a Sachs SRE organic disc and fresh DMF..it's a fantastic clutch with 400ft-lb capacity.

Oh, and your slipping..is it the revs increasing without a matching acceleration? Or, is it a shaking vibration below 2300rpm? If the latter, you have an aging DMF and/or the added torque with your tune is having it bottom out in the spring travel of the two masses of flywheel.

That's crappy to hear about the SMF =( The cost of the whole clutch + flywheel is crazy on this platform. Thanks greatly for that info, it might have saved me the transmission.

The slipping is the first one; revs increasing without a matching acceleration. No shaking occurring.

Rrusse11 · Jun 24, 2020

When my MkVI got totalled, upgraded turbo, tune, SMF clutch, fluidampr,
etc etc, I bought a MkIV. End of problems. Lol, not what you want to hear
I'm sure.

Koloss · Jun 24, 2020

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Seems like the best option is doing with a quality DMF + strong clutch, which would allow me room to upgrade more power stuff (if desired) OR dial back the tune and pray

OhCdn · Jun 24, 2020

turbobrick240 said:
The Sachs SRE kit would be ideal, but a new stock clutch should hold that tune for a good long time. The stock clutch held my Malone stage 3 tune for over 50K miles.

man lucky you, my stage 2 southbend daily didnt even hold stage 4 for a couple months

Yourbuddysatin · Jun 24, 2020

OhCdn said:
man lucky you, my stage 2 southbend daily didnt even hold stage 4 for a couple months

That seems strange. Elaborate what happend?

[486] · Jun 24, 2020

just reduce the torque limit map to where it won't slip (never been in a CR file, but I'd assume they got a comparable limiter map)
lots of times you can slip a perfectly fine clutch with a peaky enough tune
pretty easy with a bitty stock turbo to make stupid torque spikes

OhCdn · Jun 28, 2020

Yourbuddysatin said:
NO SINGLE MASS FLYWHEEL!!!!! like stated above you will be throwing a trans in quick. Get a Sachs HD clutch kit or get a south bend and upgrade your tune.

not trying to start anything but southbend is a single mass flywheel?

OhCdn · Jun 28, 2020

Yourbuddysatin said:
That seems strange. Elaborate what happend?

stock one couldn't even handle a week on that tune from Malone ( which I love btw)first month help strong no problems at all with the stage 2 daily, I and then bam started slipping in 5th then 4th then slowly just started getting worse, it didn't make much sense at all to me, but stage 3 endurance is now installed no issues so lets leave that headache in the past LOL

Mongler98 · Jun 29, 2020

OhCdn said:
stock one couldn't even handle a week on that tune from Malone ( which I love btw)first month help strong no problems at all with the stage 2 daily, I and then bam started slipping in 5th then 4th then slowly just started getting worse, it didn't make much sense at all to me, but stage 3 endurance is now installed no issues so lets leave that headache in the past LOL

Probably an install error or a leak or not properly bedding in the flywheel to the clutch.

I run a stage 6 custom (all the fuel I can get) with water/meth 2 stage pre and post turbo shots, tons of head work, 32psi on a gt2052, 764pp stage 3 pop tuned, all to make 230hp at the rear wheels. I ran a south bend stage 2 enduro clutch. Never once slipped on me. Ever.
You clearly did not break it in properly.

Yourbuddysatin · Jun 29, 2020

OhCdn said:
not trying to start anything but southbend is a single mass flywheel?

Hmmm you are probably right. I never looked deep enough to see if they make dual mass kits.

adjat84th · Jul 1, 2020

Yourbuddysatin said:
Hmmm you are probably right. I never looked deep enough to see if they make dual mass kits.

The kit they offer for these do come with a DMF, and I confirmed in an email to them that it's a Sachs unit. Nothing special.

Yourbuddysatin · Jul 2, 2020

I looked on IDparts lastnight and saw that they sell a southbend stage 2 endurance with a DMF but it comes with a heavy price. Some where over $2400.

adjat84th · Jul 3, 2020

Yourbuddysatin said:
I looked on IDparts lastnight and saw that they sell a southbend stage 2 endurance with a DMF but it comes with a heavy price. Some where over $2400.

Which is why I asked SBC about the flywheel. Thought maybe it was magical. No clue why that kit costs what it does.

Yourbuddysatin · Jul 3, 2020

Me either that’s crazy money for not much of an upgrade. I think they use sachs pressure plates and rebuild them with their parts. I like south bend but holy heck that’s a waste.

[486] · Jul 4, 2020

adjat84th said:
Which is why I asked SBC about the flywheel. Thought maybe it was magical. No clue why that kit costs what it does.

same as snapon
overenthusiastic warranty with expected abuse beyond reasonable parameters

OhCdn · Jul 6, 2020

Yourbuddysatin said:
Hmmm you are probably right. I never looked deep enough to see if they make dual mass kits.

I don't think they do my dude just letting you know for future

Yourbuddysatin · Jul 6, 2020

OhCdn said:
I don't think they do my dude just letting you know for future

They do for sure. Thats what we were just saying above. It over $2400 for their kit with the DMF. That’s a heavy hit.

Slipping Clutch after delete/tune - go back to stock?

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