2 stroke oil in your diesel = smiles?

tdiatlast said:

Actually, since his post is so unbelievably convolute, it appears he has read too many posts and is as confused as the rest of us.

Put all the additives names on a dartboard. Wear a blindfold. Throw the dart.

That's what we're all doing. No one has been able to clearly define WHICH additive is best, or if additives are really necessary.

Since pump-available diesel varies so widely in quality from region to region, it's all a crap shoot...or a dart throw.

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I would not use any additive in a newer TDI unless it has been proven and specially designed to lubricate ULS Diesel. 2 cycle oil? = NEVER! In my new TDI I trust only Hammonds Lubribor!!! As a Jet mechanic I have used Hammonds products for years. Their products surpass FAA standards.

http://www.hammondscos.com/index.php?id=258

Trust it!

I read about that stuff last time you posted. Seems pretty standard as far as ingredients. I am curious what the "fatty acid" is that they list in the MSDS.

Also, according to their website, this is formulated for Low Sulfur diesel (500ppm) as opposed to ULSD (15ppm). Is more of this additive needed to compensate? If so, that could get pretty pricey.

WutGas? said:

I read about that stuff last time you posted. Seems pretty standard as far as ingredients. I am curious what the "fatty acid" is that they list in the MSDS.

Also, according to their website, this is formulated for Low Sulfur diesel (500ppm) as opposed to ULSD (15ppm). Is more of this additive needed to compensate? If so, that could get pretty pricey.

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So You would use 2 cycle oil? That costs way more and take a chance it may damage your pump and injectors? Or do you just out there trying to shoot holes in whatever anyone says.

Not me. Lubribor is proven and will cost no more than a few dollars per fill up. Most people dont add lubration each fill up. VW has blamed lack of lubration to the cause of the pump failures so adding a little proven lube is only helpfull.

jet-tdi: I think WutGas questions are perfectly valid.
Have you contacted Lubridor about this product? Everything on their websited says LSD, NOT ULSD. Are you certain that this product is okay for your 2012 Jetta TDI?

Yet another strike against several engines sharing one fuel/additive forum. It does get complicated, and the reader really needs to pay attention.

jet-tdi said:

So You would use 2 cycle oil? That costs way more and take a chance it may damage your pump and injectors? Or do you just out there trying to shoot holes in whatever anyone says.

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Actually no, I use Opti-Lube which uses a Lubrizol additive chemistry which is about as "proven" as it can get in the additive world. I apologize that you think I was "shooting holes" in the product. I was not. I said their ingredients are pretty standard compared to other products (which is a fact) and said I wondered what the Fatty Acid Trade Secret was, as I am not an additive maker/chemist and am generally curious what that could be. Maybe you are just one of those guys who wants everyone to take them at their word and gets defensive otherwise?

jet-tdi said:

Not me. Lubribor is proven and will cost no more than a few dollars per fill up. Most people dont add lubration each fill up. VW has blamed lack of lubration to the cause of the pump failures so adding a little proven lube is only helpfull.

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Look, you posted the link. I just asked some valid questions. It states numerous times that it is for Low Sulfur Diesel. By definition, that is 500ppm of sulfur. ULSD is 15ppm and it is a FACT that stripping the sulfur out is what causes the fuel to have less lubricity. All I asked if there was a ratio for ULSD to provide sufficient lubrication as I am sure the LSD recommendation wouldn't be enough. But I am not a jet mechanic so I suppose I should just take your word for it?

No problem. Some times there is more Neg than Pos on this forum.

The lable states Specially formulated for Low Sulfur, Ultra low Sulfur Diesel and Jet Fuel.

If you can read between the lines you may figure out why i use it.

It dose add more lube than needed for ULSD, so add less. But on target for Jet-A.

Instead of making us read between the lines, why not tell us what makes you use it or why we should? What makes it better than the other popular additives on the market?

With lots of additives to choice from, finding one that fits the needs for your car is the hardest. You need to ask yourself what do you want to accomplish. Add lubrication? Increase power? Prevent gelling? Remove water? Prevent rust? and so on...
Me... I am looking to add lubrication to jet fuel. It is the cleanest fuel, but also has less lubrication than ULSD. So...adding Lubribor to each tank full is a must. My choice is based on over 30 years of using Hammonds additives in aviation. I have talked to them directly and trust their products.
It works for me.

hmm interesting you say that jet-tdi as from this article i found dated back on may/2011.
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2012/05/ultra-low-sulfur-jet-fuel-radar

The sulfur content of aviation fuel has not been regulated, however, and hits highs of 3000ppm - though aviation fuel averages 600ppm in practice. Moreover, an EASA report recently noted that the sulfur content of aviation fuel has been rising thanks to an increasing dependence on high sulfur crude oils from the Middle East and Venezuela

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then the new standard

The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) have recently sponsored studies into ultra-low sulfur jet fuel standard (15ppm), or ULSJ, and the FAA wants to half aviation's serious health impacts by 2018, relative to a 2005 baseline. Ground transportation and shipping have already been required to reduce sulfur emissions, which has cut atmospheric sulfur oxides (SOx).

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the sulfur content is the same as that in ulsd, seems like your saying it is approved for the ulsj. my question i would ask next would be. what additives are used in that product vs ones marketed to diesel fuel users. i havent looked at the additives in that hammonds product yet, will in a minute. if there are different additives in that product vs what ps silver,etc has in them. what afftect(s) would it have long term on the motors/fuel system,etc if it uses different additives.

You are correct. The FAA has been doing study's on the effects of lowering the sulfur content in jet-A to the same level as ULSD as requested by the EPA. It takes years to do things in the FAA + the added cost of the fuel would be hard on the airlines.
With a Malone tune and new exhaust the current sulfur level is fine with me. Adding the Lubribor brings the lubrication up to protect the pump.

you're running non-road fuel in a 2012 car?

Never said I was driving it on the road. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.
We were talking fuel additives.

If it was a great idea, then you would see it recommended by VW.

It appears it is not likely to cause a problem, but it is also not likely to cause a benefit.

Walmart 2 stroke outboard oil works really well in my TDI along with PS or Amsoil diesel additives mixed with it. Each their own.

I believe even ashless two cycle oils contain phosphorus? Not the greatest thing for the catalytic convertor to be burning it on purpose....

jet-tdi said:

Never said I was driving it on the road. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.
We were talking fuel additives.

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Taking what you say I think it wouldn't hard to infer you might be.

Which matters little to me just an opinion.

Just ran 2 tanks back to back, one with 2-cycle at 200:1 ratio and one with FPPF cetane boost at ~ 250:1.

• Peak EGTs were higher with 2-cycle, not sure if it's a slower-to-start, or just longer, burn
• Low-end power increased with 2-cycle at the expense of upper RPM power.
• Conversely, peak EGTs were lower with higher cetane
• Upper RPM power increased at the expense of low-end power compared to 2-cycle.

Bob_Fout said:

Just ran 2 tanks back to back, one with 2-cycle at 200:1 ratio and one with FPPF cetane boost at ~ 250:1.

• Peak EGTs were higher with 2-cycle, not sure if it's a slower-to-start, or just longer, burn
• Low-end power increased with 2-cycle at the expense of upper RPM power.
• Conversely, peak EGTs were lower with higher cetane
• Upper RPM power increased at the expense of low-end power compared to 2-cycle.

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What about fuel consumption?

Scratcher said:

What about fuel consumption?

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No conclusion, it's within my normal tank-to-tank variation.

Bob_Fout said:

No conclusion, it's within my normal tank-to-tank variation.

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Thanks

Have you guys tried mixing bio with cetane improver?

You mean cetane booster? Thai thread is about 2 stroke oil with diesel ... Robert, I'll see you Sunday!

MAXRPM said:

Have you guys tried mixing bio with cetane improver?

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Bio is itself naturally high in cetane, isn't it?

Rare to see a diesel racing only with bio all I see is D2 mixed with some bio if it were high on cetane we would see more diesel racing with bio only?

MAXRPM said:

Rare to see a diesel racing only with bio all I see is D2 mixed with some bio if it were high on cetane we would see more diesel racing with bio only?

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Bio has less BTUs than dino.

This is interesting! I really enjoy reading here.

Still fueling my B5 A4 ATJ with 2-stroke as an additive, hoping to extend the life of the engine, and maybe stay a little warmer (with the higher EGTs We have cold winter).

Eivind said:

This is interesting! I really enjoy reading here.

Still fueling my B5 A4 ATJ with 2-stroke as an additive, hoping to extend the life of the engine, and maybe stay a little warmer (with the higher EGTs We have cold winter).

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The thing with EGTs, you just shift where the heat goes: to the piston and walls (to the oil and coolant), or to the head and turbo (to the oil and coolant). Oil/water heat transfer and EGR are factors too.

Oh, I see. Hadn't thought of it that way.. Interesting how much an additive can change the properties of the fuel, and also add lubricity.
Though hardly noticeable, I am not sure whether i like the extra low end/less top end (engine already has plenty on the bottom).

Eivind said:

Oh, I see. Hadn't thought of it that way.. Interesting how much an additive can change the properties of the fuel, and also add lubricity.
Though hardly noticeable, I am not sure whether i like the extra low end/less top end (engine already has plenty on the bottom).

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I noticed similar effects from Marvel Mystery Oil as 2-stroke oil. Not sure if it's available there or not.

MAXRPM said:

Have you guys tried mixing bio with cetane improver?

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I've tried B99 mixed with the SuperTech 2-stroke oil.

It didn't feel as strong as D2 mixed with equal parts PS cetane booster (grey bottle/jug) + SuperTech 2-stroke oil

D2 w/ a cetane booster and 2-stroke oil was about equal to the performance of the Hyperfuels Syndiesel S2:




Of course, all of this is subjective but that's my 2c