NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

darrelld

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They are all dated and none dated after Fords or close to it.
True, but when I checked yesterday there were fewer Ford documents than appear when I checked today. They were probably doing a doc dump at that time.

The more compelling question is where are the latest VW docs. Reminds me of companies with bad earning reports delaying until the last moment.

But I could be wrong.
 

tcp_ip_dude

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True, but when I checked yesterday there were fewer Ford documents than appear when I checked today. They were probably doing a doc dump at that time.

The more compelling question is where are the latest VW docs. Reminds me of companies with bad earning reports delaying until the last moment.

But I could be wrong.
Redacting is a manual and labor intensive process with a lot of back and forth between the two parties. That's my guess as to what's slowing things down; NHTSA requested a whole bunch of data.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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....

The more compelling question is where are the latest VW docs. Reminds me of companies with bad earning reports delaying until the last moment.

But I could be wrong.
I've been wondering the same thing.

Could the release of data be so problematic that the parties are negotiating a settlement / course of action with respect to the issue. It happens all the time.
 

GTIDan

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Before we start yelling the sky is falling why not just wait for the report?

Had the car's 30,000 mile service completed today and I asked both the service manager and my tech both of whom I've known now for about three years if they have had any recent HPFP problems. Both said the same thing..........nothing for well over a year now and the last one (total of four in all) was due to gasoline and admited to by the customer. All models were 09s.

One new problem he did mention today was a customer with close to 50,000 miles had a bad buildup of algae and they had to replace the entire system.
 

dweisel

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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Before we start yelling the sky is falling why not just wait for the report

One new problem he did mention today was a customer with close to 50,000 miles had a bad buildup of algae and they had to replace the entire system.
Just one more thing to have to add to your fuel. Now you need biocide to prevent a hpfp failure. :eek:
 

T Girl

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I have a 2011 JSW TDI. It is at the dealership right now in Houston. My HPFP failed a few days a go while I was in traffic on a highway. The car went totally dead. I was lucky I got out of traffic safely. I can assure you I have never put gasoline in my car. I am not that stupid. No one drives my car except me. The car has less that 21k on it. I purchased it in July 2011. I had 20k service a few days before the failure which included a fuel filter change. The dealer said that is what did it when they changed the fuel filter it released enough metal to trash the pump. The dealer told me yesterday that the HPFP, primary fuel pump, injectors, all the fuel lines, and the fuel tank are going to be replaced. I have metal throughout the entire fuel system. I have filed a complaint with the NHTSA.
 

tdipoet

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that's another failure right after the fuel filter. i bet they're not priming them properly, leading to failure.
 

Thunderstruck

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VW could save themselves a whole pile of money if they'd alter the fuel change protocol to require priming the pump before starting after a fuel filter change. Why is it everyone here knows it needs to be done, but very few of the VW service departments do?
 

dweisel

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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
that's another failure right after the fuel filter. i bet they're not priming them properly, leading to failure.
I don't know why the dealer would contribute changing the fuel filter with the hpfp failing. Athough I have thought that maybe the priming procedure could force metal particles already in the hpfp into areas of the pump that may precipitate a failure. But who knows. I really can't see where priming would be any different than the pump in operation other than the internal parts would be moving. Maybe in operation the fuel flow is different enough than when priming and no internal parts are moving except the return fuel pressure relief valve. Beats me......................they fail when they fail. So much for the 2011 hpfp being any more "robust".
 
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Trooper81

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But the problem is they're not priming them period, allowing the pumps to run dry and they fail. That's the problem.
 

MonsterTDI09

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Quote from dealer.The dealer said that when they changed the fuel filter it released enough metal to trash the pump.


*** metal in a fuel filter doesn't throw up a red flag:confused:Did they ever make a note on the invoice?

Welcome
to the club,sorry to here about your troubles.I have a couple of question.Were do you buy your fuel?How low do you let the fuel tank get before you fill it up?
 

tdipoet

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that sounds like a bunch of bull, to me. the kind of thing they try to pass off as an explanation, despite knowing that there are holes in it you could drive a truck through.
 

GoFaster

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VW could save themselves a whole pile of money if they'd alter the fuel change protocol to require priming the pump before starting after a fuel filter change. Why is it everyone here knows it needs to be done, but very few of the VW service departments do?
If running dry or pumping air bubbles is really the issue (which could be) then the real fix is to change the design of the fuel system to automatically purge itself every time you turn the key (using the electric in-tank pump to do it). It would probably require an additional strategically-placed solenoid valve and extra hoses.
 

Softrockrenegade

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If running dry or pumping air bubbles is really the issue (which could be) then the real fix is to change the design of the fuel system to automatically purge itself every time you turn the key (using the electric in-tank pump to do it). It would probably require an additional strategically-placed solenoid valve and extra hoses.
Why would they change this in the first place ? It is of my understanding that all previous TDI's primed the fuel system wjen the key cycled . My guess was to make it a service item that " only the dealer can do" !!!! It seems they don't know the proper procedure to do it even tho it was designed not so owner friendly / serviceable !!!
 

bhtooefr

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No, no TDI has ever fully primed the system when the key is turned to on.

The VE pump TDIs do nothing whatosever in that regard - you had to manually pull fuel through the system with a hand vacuum pump.

The PDs and CRs push a small amount of fuel into the filter using their lift pumps when the key is turned on. This is not a full priming, and a hand vacuum pump pulling ALL the air out of the system is still optimal.
 

T Girl

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I buy my fuel primarily at one Valero station in Deer Park Texas very near the plant at which I work. I buy there because their fuel is B5. I work for Shell and am not stupid about the quality of fuel etc, I make it! I sometimes fill-up at a shell station just out side the plant but there is no B5 at Shell stations. I have been using B5 because I know you gain a small amount of lubrication from the bio fuel. I also use PRI-D from time but not every tank. I am a process operator and have been in this business over 35 years. I have a little bit of knowledge about this stuff!
 

T Girl

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Oh and to answer your other question I never go below 1/2 a tank. I know what happens in the tank when you let it get low. I have changed a couple of fuel pumps in various vehicles fuel tanks in the past that I have owned and understand most things mechanical.
 

darrelld

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If running dry or pumping air bubbles is really the issue (which could be) then the real fix is to change the design of the fuel system to automatically purge itself every time you turn the key (using the electric in-tank pump to do it). It would probably require an additional strategically-placed solenoid valve and extra hoses.
You mean something like this;

 

T Girl

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OFF topic but why after being here 10 years owning 3 TDI's and posting a number of times over the years does this site still list me as newbie????? I guess I'm missing something but don't feel like a "newbie".

Hope I can learn a few more things about this fuel situation I have run into. I hate the gasser they gave me to drive, a 2012 jetta with auto. It sux, no power.....and use toooo much gas!

Well anything you nice people want to comment about this fuel debacle, I am all ears. Supposed to get my car back sometime next week. Was told they are waiting on the HPFP. They don't stock them and they are only sent one when they need one is what the service manager told me. He said all other parts were on hand.....
 

bhtooefr

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T Girl: A "number of times" less than 25. It's purely post count - 25 posts makes you a Member, 100 (if I recall correctly) makes you a Veteran Member.

So, you're two posts away from not being a newbie any more.
 

CedarPark68

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One new problem he did mention today was a customer with close to 50,000 miles had a bad buildup of algae and they had to replace the entire system.
According to Specalot, he felt I had what looked like BIO waste in my pictures of my fuel filter swap that shared with him.

When I am close to my 40k, I do plan on running a very minimal amount of product for a couple of tank fulls.
 

dweisel

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Wheeling, West Virginia
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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
OFF topic but why after being here 10 years owning 3 TDI's and posting a number of times over the years does this site still list me as newbie????? I guess I'm missing something but don't feel like a "newbie".

Hope I can learn a few more things about this fuel situation I have run into. I hate the gasser they gave me to drive, a 2012 jetta with auto. It sux, no power.....and use toooo much gas!

Well anything you nice people want to comment about this fuel debacle, I am all ears. Supposed to get my car back sometime next week. Was told they are waiting on the HPFP. They don't stock them and they are only sent one when they need one is what the service manager told me. He said all other parts were on hand.....
Yea, get us some lubricity additive so we can all get our wear scar down to 240 to 300 on the fuel we burn. lol.

One other comment: You said the dealer had all the other parts on hand. Seems sort of odd that they would keep a fuel tank on hand. Ask the dealer how many hpfps they have replace?
 

dweisel

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Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
You mean something like this;

That fuel sending unit is basically like the fuel sending unit in previous MY.Although there are some differences. I just noticed that the pump on the 12' Passat is now a "gear pump" instead of a "roller cell pump" that was used in the previous CBEA/CJAA fuel sending unit. The other thing is that the fuel line for aux heater has something hanging on the end of it. Don't know what it is as I have yet to look at a 12' Passat fuel sytem in the flesh. Maybe its a small elec. heater to heat fuel within the fuel sending units bucket which is where your supply fuel comes from.
 
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MonsterTDI09

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2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
I we know now B5 doesn't help at all.:( If you get a chance to get the model of the new pump.You will need mirror to see it.It's on the bottom thanks.

Tom
 

dweisel

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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
B5 would ensure adequate lubricity. What do you mean?
T Girl has been burning B5 fuel,but still had a hpfp failure. I also wonder about bio diesel's specs. Here is a pic of bio from a well know source. Both bottles from the same source,but evidently different batches.

 

T Girl

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Ok that solves the mystery of why I'm still a newbie!

I got into a long discussion with the service manager about my car. I ask him how many of these failures had his dealership seen in the last year. He told me it had 4 or 5 in the last 12 months and only one clearly was because someone put gas in the tank. He also voiced his frustration with VW about the poor quality of the pump and that VW has known about this for a while. Supposedly the pump I'm getting is a new and improved model??? I wonder??? He told me that all together the total cost of all the work and parts for my car was well over 10k. OUCH! Looks like VW would get off their butts and do something about this. They just threw all the profit they made off the sale of my car in the garbage! I will keep y'all posted....
 

tditom

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T Girl has been burning B5 fuel,but still had a hpfp failure. I also wonder about bio diesel's specs. Here is a pic of bio from a well know source. Both bottles from the same source,but evidently different batches.
Just because she had a failure when using B5 and you found a bad batch of biodiesel does not mean that ASTM spec, uncontaminated B5 won't provide more than adequate lubricity for any diesel.

It can't save a sub-standard design, though...
 
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