Relay 109 - Main Power Supply Fuse

iaflyer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2000
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
TDI
Jetta, 2000, Silver Arrow
I was having a problem with my 2000 Jetta TDI not starting. It looked like a fuel injector pump problem or a leak in the fuel system (allowing air in).

Anyway - replacing the 109 relay did the trick and it started right up. I would suggest that anyone who hasn't replaced their relay do so - I got the relay for $10 and it took 5 minute to replace. That made the other 15 hours and $160 on parts that were not broken like a waste... but it starts now!

Here's the thread with my problems...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=155395
 

oilyVW

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Location
Florida
TDI
02 Jetta
I have a question.

My car recently died which led me to do a search on the net for help and I wound up here. Love the site, BTW.

My problem turned out to be bad fuel which I fixed with a drainin', a cleanin', and some cussin'. And a new filter of course. However, after reading this thread I went ahead and went to my local VW guy and bought a Relay 109. The one I bought is black and looks just like old one pictured here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1434428&postcount=55

When I got to mine, I found that I have the new grey one already. With 120,000 miles on the car should I still go ahead and swap them and keep the grey one as a spare? Why does my new one look just like the old one? The stamp on the side is the same and everything.
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
I would return the black one to where you bought it. I know dealers are not supposed to take returns on elecrical components, but they should also not be selling KNOWN DEFECTIVE ones either. Just remember.....Black is BAD, Grey is GOOD.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
The new units TDIParts sells are black, but aren't subject to failure like the older ones. So perhaps it's ok? Is there a build date on the relay?

-Jason
 

oilyVW

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Location
Florida
TDI
02 Jetta
Thanks for the fast replies.

Here is what is stamped on the side in white:
WEHRLE
50 237 012
Made in Tunesia
>PA6.6-GF30<
(Diagram showing where the prongs go)
29/04

Since the place I bought it acted like I was crazy when I mentioned that some knowledgeable TDI owners had found this part to be defective, I doubt they are going to let me return it. I may end up just keeping it as a spare and buying a new grey one for good measure.

Thanks again for the replies.
 
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n5rdv

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Location
USA
Is this relay 109?

My 2002 Golf TDI (5-speed) has the newer relay 109, and I've attempted to test it. It'll close and open, the glow plug light will come on and go off. The symptom is crank with only a small sputter or nothing at all. I replaced the fuel filter today, but that didn't help. If I jump out as soon as I crank it it looks like there's been suction at the fuel filter, as the bubble of air I see goes slowly back toward the filter. I did flush that bubble after changing the filter and filled it with Power Service white. I also primed the filter.

When I attempt to check voltage at the fuel pump connector under the back seat, I get only millivolts, even when cranking. So far I haven't found where to trace this wiring back, using the Chilton service manual. Fuses 29 and 32 test good with an ohmmeter.

What next?

Edit: called my mechanic, at my SO's recommendation. Men just won't stop to ask directions. There's a gate in the intake that was stuck closed. I touched the lever and it snapped open. Car started right up, though with a cloud from all the attempts I'd made.
 
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Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
n5rdv said:
Edit: called my mechanic, at my SO's recommendation. Men just won't stop to ask directions. There's a gate in the intake that was stuck closed. I touched the lever and it snapped open. Car started right up, though with a cloud from all the attempts I'd made.
Very common problem. Jason aka Compu_85 did a good writeup on this. Its actually a stickey at the top of one of the forums I thought. It should have been easy to find. It should also come up with a "no start" search???

Anyway, Glad you got it fixed.

EDIT: Here is Jasons thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=128812
 
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Truckeratlarge

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Location
Kansas City, MO
TDI
Passat, 97, white
Why not replace the 109 and keep the old one as a spare... Just treat it like your spare tire and go get a new one within 50 miles.

Another item I am adding to my shopping cart right now
I know I had a faulty relay at one time, and after much time had been spent on the car and the sale of an unneeded EGR. they comped the relay. Since my Dad no longer was service director, I wasn't able to get much out of them as far as info, nor was I allowed to continue to talk with the technicians. I can only guess by symptons that it was the 109.
 

sullysdaddy

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Location
pensacola forida
TDI
2001 tdi jetta
anyone want to buy a 2001 tdi?? ok i just went through two months of crap with starting probs.gp,s, starter fuel pump all brand new now. well it rained last night and the mystery short turned car on. batterry seemingly dead. well i replaced the good gray relay with a used black one. the lights turned on better and things started lighting up and blinking and clicking. now i can only here clicking but no lights?? did my system just fry?? should i put back the old gray one and recharge battery and see if some majic will let my car start now. seriously all offers welcome. i deliver pizzas and cant afford the down time
 

casetane

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Location
North Hollywood
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Almost killed me.

I was driving my niece down the 101 freeway in Los Angeles at 65 MPH when my car died. I had maintained it perfectly so I was shocked. We barely made it safely off to the side of the freeway with the momentum I had.

A lot of other stuff happened but long story short it was the relay 109.

I wrote a letter to the CEO and told them about the problem and they just had a rep get back to me and offer me a formal apology but said they planned on doing nothing about this problem or even raising awareness about this.

I'm now seeking legal council before someone is less fortunate then me and my niece and doesn't make it safely off the road when they run into this problem.

Thank goodness for this Website or I would have never known what the problem was.

Curtis-
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
Why not start a poll thread. Ask how many people have had this problem. If you get an overwhelming response, it might help with your case.
 

trevzb

New member
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Location
Sumter, S.C.
TDI
2000 Beetle
Fuse 43

Hi...new here. 2000 Beetle TDI, fuse 43 keeps blowing. Tech said there was an alternating short to ground on that fuse...fine for a while, then shorts to ground. Could a bad Relay 109 be the cause of this recurring malfunction?

I noticed this when my bug lost climbing power. Tech said car thinks brakes are on (brake light switch is the new kind...had it replaced) and reduces fuel flow to engine all the time when that fuse is blown.

Fuse seems to blow at random, although it sometimes seems to coincide with something going on in the steering column (using a turn signal, for instance). Tech said probably no short there.

Reading about this bad relay, though, has me thinking it could be the root cause of all my headaches.

Am I on the right track? Thanks in advance.

Trevor Bauknight
Sumter, S.C.
 

Luv My 02 TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Location
(Hybla Valley) Alexandria, VA
TDI
Jetta MK5(2010) and MK6(2015)
Relay 109 Inside Photos

I just replaced my 109 relay and took some photos of it on the inside.

The two large tabs at the top of the relay board show signs of overheating along with the solder joints looked cracked or like cold solder joints.
The left up solder joint is the back side of the contact area.




This is a I reduced in size and placed red lines on the cracks on the solder connections, They are hard to see. But if you use CTRL and + keys you can enlarge the view. If you click on it you should be able to see the Original LARGER size photo.

Links to all the photos.. Some with a flash some without.

Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Photo 4
Photo 5

Hopefully this will fix my problem, but I think it will.
 

xx1

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
uk
TDI
a3
bump for an old post i have just replaced my 109 in my A3, dismantled the old black 109 and it had dry solder cracking ;)

thanks guys

total cost £16 from a VW dealer in the the UK
 

flyinggrape

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Thornbury, Ontario, Canada
TDI
purple 95, blue 00
Have a 2000 TDI with 487K kms and got the following symptoms through the winter last. Cold Started well, but prior to the engine getting to full operation temperature, I would get a rough idle (seemed like a lack of fuel) or puling up to light even when engine is hot I would get a rough idle. This week I got the 'no start' symptom. It would start cold, but not restartuntil it cooled down. I checked this site, and today received the new relay from local auto parts store. $ days for the delivery. The relay is made in Portugal, cost me $53 CAD (#$@) I will install it tomorrow and add to the thread.
 

flyinggrape

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Thornbury, Ontario, Canada
TDI
purple 95, blue 00
Well I installed the new one. At first I got nothing. Removed it and replugged it and it was OK. At first I picked the relay 100. It looked like it had run really hot! The I put my glasses on and saw the 0 was a nine and reinstalled it.The old 109 had a beige translucent cover made in Germany pt #357906381A. not black or grey. Seems ok now. I wonder if it is the socket rather than the relay?? Took the old one apart and there was corrosion around the base of 2 solder joints. Looked under 10X lens and did not see any solder cracks. Anyway, it is hot here today and no problems. So as it stands the old girl is running again. Thanks to this web site again. Last time it was a coke problem...with the car, and the advice I got from wing nut and his friends got it going again THANKS. I want to run this baby to a million KM.
 

ivanlya

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Location
chesapeake
TDI
beetle
can not find 109

Hi there,

i have found relay panel but there is not power supply relay 109 - the 12th spot is empty and there is no connection to put new on in. I have following relays on the panel:

[FONT=&quot]Relay panel i have relays in position 1,2,4,V and VI[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Auxiliary relay panel I have relays in position 4, 8 and 11[/FONT]

a little confused as there is no 109... any advise?

2000 beetle 2.0 cranks, start for few seconds and stops... someone recommended replace 109. Dealer try to diagnose and said i need to replace ECM. but i wanted to try 109 first. please help!!!

thanks,

Ivan
 

ivanlya

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Location
chesapeake
TDI
beetle
TornadoRed said:
How about 601?
thank you for your response. i double checked: there is no 109 or 601.

i have following in the relay box:

relay panel:
- position 1 has relay 53
- position 2 has relay 100
- position 3 - empty
- position 4 has relay 409
- position V and VI combined and have relay 377

Thirteen fold relay panel:
- position 4 has relay 53
- position 8 has relay 173
- position 11 has relay 175
- the rest are empty, including position 12.

not sure where 109 is... could car operate without it?

thanks a lot!!!

ivan
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
ivanlya said:
not sure where 109 is... could car operate without it?
No. I think it would turn over, but I'm not even sure about that. No dashboard lights, no power to engine control module, so no instructions to injection pump to inject fuel.
 

adamant628

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Columbus, OH
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon GLS
How can I tell if I have the new or old relay. I have a 2005 Jetta wagon that I purchased used a little over a month ago.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
adamant628 said:
How can I tell if I have the new or old relay. I have a 2005 Jetta wagon that I purchased used a little over a month ago.
The most-unreliable ones were installed in the 1999-2001 models -- the one in your 2005 should be very reliable. HOWEVER, it would still be a good idea to pick up a spare and keep it in the glove box. It is better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it. Plus they are cheap, a whole lot cheaper than a towing bill.
 

adamant628

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Columbus, OH
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon GLS
Thanks for the info. I am working on generating a list of things that I should keep on hand. I will add this to the list. Anything else that you recommend I get a hold of? I'd prefer to place one larger order and maybe get a couple things in bulk to save some money down the road. A PM would be fine to keep this thread clean.
 

Lyle Millard

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
how do you know if your power supply is bad

my 202 golf won't run an every thing else seems to be ok i was driving along an the engine just stoped an never ran again i was wondering if it could be this 109 relay thanks
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Lyle Millard said:
my 202 golf won't run an every thing else seems to be ok i was driving along an the engine just stoped an never ran again i was wondering if it could be this 109 relay thanks
It might be.

OTOH, have you checked your timing belt?
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Lyle Millard said:
thanks red I have checked everything I 'm not getting any fuel to my enjectors could it be the pump
Yes, that would cause the engine to stop without warning. I don't know if it's common.

You may need to start a new thread. It could still be something simple and cheap, it's possible.
 

bradleyo

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Lug_Nut said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TGOLF:
Be careful as TurboSteve noted that the numbers on relays you pull or replace can be inverted. Speaks volumes to the quality...don't you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe that's why neither of mine failed. They aren't 109 after all. They are actually 601's!
And just this morning not only was my entire newspaper printed upside down but the fold was on the right!
A few bad beer can really throw a wrench into them printing presses.

Listen to Alex Jones at www.infowars.com ...you won't believe what you don't know
 
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