2012 Jetta tdi and Howes Lubricator Diesel Treatment

LilTDI

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Mar 16, 2019
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Southern Illinois
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2012/2014
The hpfp went out and contaminated the fuel system, more in repair then I paid for the emissions fixed car. Warranty is no good as VW dealership says fuel contamination. Other then diesel, I do use Howes and wondering if that could cause the test to show contaminated fuel. I only have gone to 2 different stations and neither has had any complaints about their diesel.
 

tdiatlast

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Total BS. Ask them for proof of fuel contamination.
All diesel fuels have a variety of "additives", and AFAIK, Howes isn't unusual in any way.
Others will weigh in, I'm sure.
 

tikal

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Agree with tdiatlast. Escalate the issue through higher management and VW. Curious what test they do to say fuel is contaminated. Contaminated by what?
 

Lightflyer1

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Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Please post back and let us know what happens. IIRC Ill. is allowed up to 20% bio content as well. As stated best to contact VWoA and discuss with them personally.
 

LilTDI

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Mar 16, 2019
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Southern Illinois
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2012/2014
When I asked what it was contaminated with, he could not answer. He mentioned a specific gravity of nine when it needed to be an eleven.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
They use some pretty cheeseball instrumentation to deny claims. I'd ask for an analysis from a certified lab, not some grease monkey playing with a playdough fun factory.
 

n1das

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Nashua, NH, USA
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2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Total BS. Ask them for proof of fuel contamination.
All diesel fuels have a variety of "additives", and AFAIK, Howes isn't unusual in any way.
Others will weigh in, I'm sure.
What tdiatlast said. Total bull-expletive.

I have been using Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat for 17 years and over 900k miles of diesel ownership experience and never had a single fuel related issue. Howes is one of my favorite additives. I also live in a cold area where water and gelling problems are common during the coldest part of winter.

My two favorite additives are Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat and PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle). I never mix them and use one or the other with EVERY tankful. I also fuel up ONLY at high turnover stations along major routes that get a lot of heavy truck traffic. I go where the big rigs go to fuel up. The fuel at high turnover stations along major routes is constantly being replaced, often daily and will be the least like to be contaminated with water and microbes. It is not uncommon for a busy truck stop along a major route to do more than $30k worth of diesel business in a single day. The $30k number is data from 2002 at a busy truck stop I'm familiar with.

Diesel fuel is hygroscopic like brake fluid is and will soak up moisture over time like brake fluid does. Fuel at stations that rarely get any diesel truck traffic can have diesel fuel contaminated with water from condensation and have microbial growth due to water. A single tank of water contaminated fuel from a low turnover station is all it takes to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. Not worth the risk IMHO. The HPFP in common rail diesels is more susceptible to damage from slugs of free water in diesel fuel compared to older rotary injector pump diesels. Free water in diesel fuel will destroy the HPFP in a common rail diesel in no time at all and absolutely must be avoided at ALL costs! :eek:

Avoiding water is particularly important during winter months in cold areas due to condensation being more of a problem. People often report gelling problems in the cold weather but are actually experiencing ICING problems due to water. Properly winterized fuel can still have problems with icing due to water long before it gets cold enough for winterized fuel to gell up. Avoid water at ALL costs! :eek: Stick to fueling up ONLY at busy, high diesel turnover stations along major routes to avoid getting tankfuls of water contaminated fuel. :eek: Go where the big rigs go to fuel up in your area.

My priorities for using an additive are to increase lubricity and control any water I can't avoid getting even though I already fuel up only at the busiest high diesel turnover stations along major routes. Providing anti-gel for winter use and boosting Cetane levels are of secondary importance. The bottom line is fuel quality is ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING when it comes to ensuring long life and reliable service from the HPFP and other fuel system components.

It sounds like the OP's car is another victim of water ingestion. It may have been happening for a while under the first owner's care. Rust and corrosion found on internal parts in the HPFP and other fuel system parts would be evidence of water ingestion and was occurring for some time. The bottom of the fuel tank may be mucky with slime from microbial growth due to water.

Sorry to hear. Good luck.
 
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Lightflyer1

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Round Rock, Texas
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I have yet to find any water or signs of it in any of the tdi's I have owned since 2005. Not to say it isn't out there but I have seen no evidence of it and I don't use any additives that aren't already in the fuel I buy. I am not that picky either. Any name brand station with the cheapest fuel shown on Gas Buddy near me will do.
 

wensteph

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Savannah
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I do use an additive in every tank, but I can see reduced need when buying from branded stations as Lightflyer does. At least in my market all raw D2 is the same, the only difference being the additive pack added at the fuel jobber. Shell, Chevron, etc will dictate the level of additives in their fuel. The El Cheapo's will probably buy the minimum.
 

BKmetz

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Illinois
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2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
When I asked what it was contaminated with, he could not answer. He mentioned a specific gravity of nine when it needed to be an eleven.
Ask them to show you what they used to measure the specific gravity with. They will probably stall and eventually show you a battery hydrometer. Now you have them dead to rights. Here's a link that explains how specific gravity works for petroleum, API gravity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/API_gravity

I'll condense things a bit. API gravity uses different hydrometer scale than water. But there is a relation. Above 10 means a petroleum liquid is lighter than water and all fuels are. Less than 10 means a petroleum liquid is heavier than water. This is only good for water contamination in fuel. It's worthless for confirming gasoline contamination in diesel fuel.

If they show you a battery hydrometer or hydrometer used for water, it doesn't matter if it's the old school manual type or digital, ask them what they used for the conversion factor to convert specific gravity to API gravity. There are tables for this but in my 45 years of driving I've never seen one in any dealership or shop. Calculating API gravity from specific gravity is easy when you know the formula.

API gravity formulas: The formula to calculate API gravity from Specific Gravity (SG) is



And the opposite, going from API gravity to specific gravity.


This is where they threw those numbers at you. Heavy oil with a specific gravity of 1.0 (same density as pure water at 60°F) has an API gravity of



After you ask them what conversion factor they used, ask them if they adjusted their number for temperature. Specific gravity to API gravity calculations have to be adjusted to 60F to be correct.


For example, let's use the 9 number the guy at the dealership threw at you. Starting on the left side follow the 9 line across to 60F. That's the ideal but not the actual. Lets assume that the temperature was higher than 60F when the dealer took this reading, lets say 75F considering the time of year. Notice how fast the API gravity changes. Follow the API 9 line down to where 75F would be on the bottom scale, and back across to the left, now the API gravity is what, around 12.5 to 13! A 15 degree difference make a huge difference is the API reading, and 12.5 over the 11 number they claimed the fuel has to be. As you can see, temperature changes API gravity, which changes fuel density, which also changes BTU/gal. That's why the BTU scale on on the right.


Here is where it gets really stupid when someone starts throwing around specific gravity readings. Looking at the BTU side of the graph, oils in the 9 to 11 range are in the asphaltine range, heavy fuel oils, roofing cement, etc. Diesel fuel is in the range of 32 to 40 API gravity, depending on the crude oil it was refined from, and/or if it's straight D2 or some kind of winter blend.

The worst trick in the book is if they say they poured a fuel sample from your car into a styrofoam cup and it dissolved the cup. All diesel fuel fuel will do this within a few minutes.

Do your homework and use knowledge against them and make them prove their numbers. Be polite but firm. Knowledge is power!

Please keep us updated.

:)
 
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andreigbs

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Walworth Co., Wisconsin
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^^^ This.

Facts and knowledge cuts through bull$hit in a hurry. Get them to put their claim and "observed data" in writing, that way there is no wiggle room or "he said, we said" scenarios.

If they can't prove their claim, complain loud up the chain to VWOA so they make the dealer settle all disputes in favor of the customer: you! That's written in the extended warranty documentation, so make use of it.

Good luck.
 

BKmetz

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Illinois
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The VAS 6774 machine is an interesting machine, I've not seen one of those before. I watched a video and using it is straight forward. It's a good diagnostic tool and as they claim in the video, not a definitive test as fuel samples should be sent off to a lab to get exact results. The PDF on it explicitly states that the normal range for US spec D2 meeting ASTM-975, the range is 9 to 13. So by that alone says all your fuel samples are OK.

This is a good start as the machine is using a hydrometer with the API gravity scale. What I see is that this machine is a pass/fail device which is why it's not bothering with temperature correction. That also explains why the gravity scale they use does not match the table I posted. But then it's meant for retail pump fuels and not industrial heavy fuels which is what I worked with.

From reading this thread, nobody can tell you what your fuel is contaminated with. As per the video one is suppose to use the sniffer to see if there is any gasoline contamination by sniffing gasoline vapors before dipping the sample with a hydrometer. So by skipping this step they voided any reason to claim you have gasoline contamination. I believe the different readings you are seeing are due to temperature variations.

I don't believe you have a fuel contamination problem from mixed fuels, or water. What we don't know, and what the test machine can't tell us is if there any microscopic abrasive debris in the fuel which would cause a pump failure. This is highly unlikely as the fuel filters are quite efficient.

My conclusion is that you are at the mercy of the person using the testing machine (how much employee training, how much experience does the tech have using it, is the test machine properly maintained, and how competent is the employee, eg: are they cleaning the hydrometer between taking samples so there is no residual sample contamination.

It doesn't sound like the dealership is trying to outright defraud you out of a claim, more that they are following protocol and they're not that technically astute to know all the variables that are involved.

Good luck and keep us posted.

:)
 
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LilTDI

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Location
Southern Illinois
TDI
2012/2014
The tool they used was a VAS 6774. The serv mgr is not familiar with it and refers back to his master mech often in our conversations. He did tell me the specific gravity test was an 11. The fuel station rep came in and got a sample from my car for testing also. Curious to see what we find out with his test. If you scroll down to the english at this link, there is a graph and it shows gravity at 11 to be good. Maybe I am reading something wrong, but this should pass their fuel test requirements. https://vw.snapon.com/FileServerRoot/CatManFiles/FilesPublished/EQS/VWTools/Brochures/VAS6774_VAS%206774%20Fuel%20Identification%20Unit%20Operating%20Instructions.pdf
 

LilTDI

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Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Location
Southern Illinois
TDI
2012/2014
Agreed BKmetz, the dealership hands are tied if it fails the test and they have tested it 3 times. I figured dealership would send a sample to corporate but they never have. That's why I got VWoA involved to get the case escalated. Day 16 since of my catastrophic failure, lol.
 

LilTDI

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Mar 16, 2019
Location
Southern Illinois
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2012/2014
Great news! VW has agreed to cover the repairs 100 percent, plus a rental car. We were at a standstill with the dealership, but VW of America got the ball a rolling. I bought this car because of the mpg it gets and a pretty good warranty to boot. Glad to see warranty hold true!!!
 
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