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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas

VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old January 31st, 2015, 13:33   #16
banshee365
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I had the same experience with 1/2" drive tools. The purpose of this thread was to show the proper tool for the job. It's a $70 investment from northern tool but they have a lifetime warranty and it's probably. It the last time you'll be removing an axle bolt.
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Old March 6th, 2015, 12:40   #17
jsharum
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And then we have this... How do we ever get a clear answer?

Hello again

To clarify - my earlier response was based on research I did when I was asked this same exact question a while back.

I went back and checked my up-to-date copy of eBahn. This information originates directly from VWoA and is updated periodically. As such, it appears that the source information may possibly have been updated since the last time I checked into this.

Under "Front Axle Tightening Specifications", the torque specification for drive axle to wheel hub is listed as 200 Nm (148 ft-lb) plus 180 (1/2 turn). I'm also not seeing any distinction currently in eBahn between hex or 12 point.

Here's where it gets a little confusing - under the procedure titled "Drive Axle Bolt, Loosening and Tightening", eBahn lists the torque specification as 180 Nm (133 ft-lb) plus 180 (1/2 turn).

However, I also checked against VWoA's erWin information system, and it lists the torque specification for the drive axle bolt exactly as it appears in our printed repair manual. i.e.:
1. 12 point bolt, 70Nm (52 ft lb) then 90
2. Hex bolt, 200 Nm (148 ft lb) then 180

That's the information as it comes from VWoA, and that's what I'm inclined to recommend.

Hope this helps,
Rick W
Bentley Publishers
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Old March 6th, 2015, 13:16   #18
banshee365
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I think that info is far from correct. For one you can't even buy the hex bolt anymore. I've done several 12 pt bolts without the ridges lately to the 200nm +90 spec and havn't had an issue.
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Old March 7th, 2015, 06:58   #19
jsharum
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I know where your coming from but it's straight from Bentley. How do we really know what the proper value is? A quick search will give either torque value. I just want to know for sure. It's a big variance.
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Old March 7th, 2015, 09:05   #20
banshee365
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His reference to erWin is wrong as I have posted the clip from erWin on page 1 of this thread. He didn't sound too sure. I doubt you were speaking with an actual tech or someone really in the know there.
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Old July 10th, 2017, 10:11   #21
Henrick
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Sorry for resurrecting old thread.

From the information provided, it seems that now the only available bolts are without ribs.
So this means 200 Nm + 180 degrees torque spec.

Shouldn't the 180 degreee final turn be done with the wheel installed and vehicle fully on the ground?
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Old July 12th, 2017, 08:31   #22
banshee365
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Yes, that's how I do it. You should apply the 200 Nm value to the bolt first before selling weight on the wheel bearing though. Then, with the wheel on the ground, perform the half turn for final torque.
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Old July 13th, 2017, 00:29   #23
Henrick
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Great, thanks for confirmation.

Some background of the car. Around 8k miles ago there was an oil leak from transmission (manual). Turned out to be the shaft seal on the passenger side. So the drive axle needed to be removed to service the seal. Meanwhile, it was decided to replace front brake rotors (and pads) too. The very same passenger rotor was stuck to the hub and lots of hammering was required to free it.

After the service has been performed, the axle bolt was reused and tightened by hand (I mean without achieving any specific torque, just tight enough using breaker bar).

7k miles later, the very same bearing starts making a noise. Coincidence? 70k miles on the clock.

I'm not sure which bolt is originally installed in the car - the ribbed one or not. Will confirm that in about 2 weeks if anyone's interested.
For now I have prepared two new bolts - flat and ribbed versions (as well as new bearing holddown bolts)
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Old July 13th, 2017, 22:57   #24
RV9Factory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee365 View Post
that bolt is pretty important to your family's safety.
I'm not exactly doubting what you are saying but what are the consequences of that bolt backing out or failing? The wheel is held on to the car via the hub and the steering knuckle. If the axle becomes unbolted to the hub then there is still substantial pressure keeping the axle splines seated inside the hub. Now the hub being unloaded by the lack of a bolt may damage or destroy the hub either slowly or quickly, I don't know. But I am very certain that if that center bolt fails you aren't going to lose a wheel.

For what it's worth I just did both of my front hubs and my new hubs came with the 12 point bolts that require 52 ft lbs Plus 90 degrees. That was pretty easy to achieve.

Last edited by RV9Factory; July 13th, 2017 at 22:59.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 13:25   #25
bobthefarmer
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There is something VASTLY Different between 52 Ft-Lbs plus 90 degrees and the other bolts at 133 Ft-Lbs plus 180. It is night and day, to me as an engineer, and leads me to question the manual. I would guess that the 180 degree supplemental stretch would add triple the amount of yield in the bolt (about .75 mm or 0.030-0.040 inch). It would also be far more difficult to reach without that 3/4 inch socket and a loooong pipe.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 13:00   #26
banshee365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthefarmer View Post
There is something VASTLY Different between 52 Ft-Lbs plus 90 degrees and the other bolts at 133 Ft-Lbs plus 180. It is night and day, to me as an engineer, and leads me to question the manual. I would guess that the 180 degree supplemental stretch would add triple the amount of yield in the bolt (about .75 mm or 0.030-0.040 inch). It would also be far more difficult to reach without that 3/4 inch socket and a loooong pipe.
Yes, I wondered the same thing. But I found those specs in several different resources, not just the erWin manuals that I have. The difference is obviously the ribs under the bolt head. That style bolt can 'bite' into the wheel hub and hold it's torque better than a smooth bolt. I've never actually seen the style with the ribs. I've only seen the OE bolt's which are the 6-point with washer and the new 12-point smooth flange head bolt.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 14:37   #27
Henrick
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I have bolts of all three styles right on my table.
First one is the one with hexagon head and non-detachable washer.
Second one is is the one with ribs.
Last one is the new style with flat shoulder and no washer.

All of them have "8.8" markings on them. To me it looks not that hard but I'm not an expert in bolts.

Tomorrow I will be installing the flat shouldered one and trying to achieve the 200 Nm + 180 deg torque. We'll see how it goes.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 06:28   #28
Henrick
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Replaced the bearing this morning.
The old bearing had the bolt with ribbed neck.
Installed the bearing. Tightened to 200 Nm. Installed the wheel.
Lowered the car to fully rest on its weight.
Marked the positions where to tighten.
Using breaker bar and an extension, tightened +90 degrees. My God, that's tight. At some time we thought the bolt is going to break. Added 90 more degrees, so 180 in total..

It's really pretty tight there. Wonder how those bearings survive...
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Old July 27th, 2017, 10:42   #29
Henrick
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One thing I'm thinking about now:
When I removed the axle bolt, the threads were covered in grease. I suppose this is the CV joint grease.
Before installing the new bolt I didn't clean then inner threads at the CV joint (the new bolt was dry, though).
Tightened it to 200 Nm, then + 180*.

Having in mind that there might have been some grease on the innter threads at CV joint, I'm getting paranoid...

Did I overtighten that axle bolt?
Should the grease from inner threads be somehow cleaned before installing a new bolt?
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Old August 8th, 2017, 13:38   #30
bobthefarmer
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Threads should be lubricated before going through with the fitting and torquing. Grease is coming from the CV Joint and that is a good lubricant. If you got 180 degrees after 133 Ft-Lbs, you must be of great strength! I believe the Grade 9 Bolts (8.8) will handle the torque (once).
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