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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old July 4th, 2014, 13:34   #16
subdvr99
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Any longer-term update on this fix? The sooty underside of my engine is begging for a fix, one way or another... also, any dimensions on the metal piece, or is it easier to fit up in place? I have to take the car somewhere to get it up in the air, so if I can fab it ahead of time, i would.
Thanks!
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Old July 7th, 2014, 20:53   #17
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Been thousands of miles so far and still works perfect, no hissing at all.

No dimensions of the metal sorry, I just kinda fabed it up, tried it, then filed it down some more until I got it to fit nice and tight.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 11:25   #18
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Thanks for sharing this. About to try it on an '02 wagon.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 11:28   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cumminsfromthecold View Post
Thanks for sharing this. About to try it on an '02 wagon.

That is an entirely different setup. Doesn't even have an EGR cooler changeover flap shaft to leak.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 19:24   #20
bondtimbond
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How does the metal plate fit over the lever on the shaft?

I assume it is required to clean out the cavity somehow to clear out the carbon so that the epoxy can adhere? What is a good way to do that?

What is the trick to disconnecting the ball and socket fitting from the actuator from the lever?

I'm in the midst of this now, and will try to take some photos of the repair process.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 20:17   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bondtimbond View Post

What is the trick to disconnecting the ball and socket fitting from the actuator from the lever?

I'm in the midst of this now, and will try to take some photos of the repair process.
The Rod has a small wire spring capturing the Ball. The wire is removed from around the shaft of the Ball and then extracted out of a hole in the Rod. Take a very close examination of the situation before you extract it (phone Pic?).

If you are using the methods in this Thread, I see no reason to pull that retainer.

The alternative permanent fix is found in a thread called Hissing Leaking EGR Cooler.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 23:32   #22
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"That is an entirely different setup. Doesn't even have an EGR cooler changeover flap shaft to leak. "

Yes, yes it is.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 09:57   #23
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NOTE: the technique outlined in this post used quick steel epoxy and that repair turned out not to last more than a year. I suggest you refer to my post later in this thread where I use JB Weld and I completely deactivate the vacuum motor. That technique appears to be lasting much longer. This post however includes lots of useful photos and information so it's still worth reading.

OK, so I performed my repair a couple of weeks ago on my 06 TDI with DSG, basically using the high temp epoxy technique outlined by Supak111, and have a few comments and photos and the general procedure I used. I have posted this in the thread started by Supak111 since what I have done is based on the same approach. Overall it went well, and when I drove the car it was HISS FREE for the first time in probably 10 months or so! How nice! It has continued to be hiss free since the repair, but we'll see how long this repair lasts. Now that I have done this however, I believe I can go in should the hiss return and re-perform the repair with some lessons learned much faster and do a better job. This is being offered here just as information. I don't know how long this will last and I offer no guarantees obviously. I am sure this procedure can be improved. Here is what I know:

A). The biggest problem with this technique as Supak111 mentioned also is that the QuikSteel putty hardens too fast. We need to find a similar high temp putty that hardens slower and this will be a much easier and less stressful job. You have at most 3 minutes from end of mixing to when the putty suddenly hardens - and I do mean suddenly! It goes from workable to unworkable in a matter of seconds.

B). My whole task was done on jack stands under only the front and this works fine. Get it up nice and high, a bit higher than when the car is on ramps. You will need to be able to rotate the front wheels. You don't need to remove either wheel.

C). I applied the epoxy in two layers, and I don't know if this is the best way or not. Supak111 did it slightly differently, as he didn't reinstall the spring clip at all and fabricated a new bracket to cover the whole opening, but I didn't know really how that was done and didn't want to fab something up. I took the approach of using the original clip since it provides some support to the shaft and holds it centered at least in one direction. I figured I would find out how well the epoxy would hold up on its own. The approach I took required no fabrication. You may choose to take Supak111's approach and leave out the clip and fab a replacement that covers the whole thing. I assume it has to have a slot in it to allow it to slide in place since the arm on the shaft prevents installation otherwise. Supak111 feel free to comment...

D). The original bushing only occupied the bottom half of the total space, with the spring clip holding it in place apparently. My approach was to fill the lower half, insert the clip just before the epoxy set, then after the first layer had set completely add a second layer to fill the space to the top of the cavity. I figured this would provide more support for the shaft, etc.



Here was my basic procedure. Please comment and let me know how it goes and I will update this based on others input.

1). Jack up the front end of car and place on jack stands, remove underbelly cover.

2). Disconnect passenger side axle where it connects to tranny - six bolts. This isn't hard to do so don't skip this step, it gives you necessary visual and hand access at least on my 06 with DSG. You need to rotate the wheels to give you access to all six bolts and they come out easy with the proper triple square adapter. Move the axle forward to give you access. Place a trouble light up on top of the aluminum subframe to give you nice light.

3). Remove the "space blanket" that covers the EGR cooler actuator. If you like, you might clean up the area with a suitable cleaner and rinse things off otherwise the soot that is probably all over will make a mess as you continue. Pull off the vacuum hose from the actuator, remove the two Allen bolts that hold on the vacuum actuator.


Here is a photo of the subject valve prior to performing any work on it:




4). Disconnect the ball and socket end of the actuator - doing so allows you to get the actuator completely out of the way which is a big help, and permits you to clean and test the actuator. Ball socket removal is done by pulling up on the spring that is clipped over the actuator shaft (see photo below), and rotating the clip clear of the shaft then pulling the tiny wire attached to it out of the socket in the actuator direction. This tiny clip/wire is inserted into a tiny hole near the bottom of the socket and when inserted keeps the ball from pulling out of the socket. Pretty neat design, but the clip is tiny and easy to lose. Be careful. Once you unclip the spring end from the shaft, you then pull towards the actuator and it just pulls out allowing the removal of the actuator.


Detail view of the ball and socket highlighting the spring clip that must be pulled up and rotated:




5). Remove the spring clip that holds in the old bushing around the valve shaft. This clip, pictured below, has a small tab on it that you must depress with a small screwdriver in order for it to come out. This is tricky. You should use a small inspection mirror to help visualize where this tab is located. You have to push inward towards the valve once you have the screwdriver on the right spot.


Detail view of the removed clip that holds the old bushing in place and supports the actuator arm, showing the small TAB that must be depressed to remove:




View of the bushing cavity with the clip removed prior to digging out the old bushing:




6). Next, using a small screwdriver dig out the old bushing as best you can. You have to work your way around the perimeter of the circular cavity to make sure you get it all out, and plan on using a small inspection mirror to be sure. I used a shop vac to help keep the sooty debris from falling in my face.


Here is a view of the cavity after removal of the old bushing showing the vacuum cleaner hose placed beneath to catch the debris:




7). Clean the cavity. I used some throttle body spray cleaner with the extension nozzle in place to blow out and clean the bushing cavity and it seemed to work well.


Here is photo of the cleaned cavity ready for epoxy:




8). Familiarize yourself with how the epoxy behaves. It sets really fast. If you know of a slower setting version that is also high temp and a putty consistency that will stay in place when you are working upside down, you might try it. I mixed up a small sample of epoxy and pretended to mold and apply it just to see what it felt like as it set, etc and I suggest you do the same.


Here is a photo of the epoxy package:




9). Time to mix up and apply the first layer of the epoxy. As mentioned above, I applied epoxy in two layers with the factory clip reinstalled in-between. You don't need to mix up much of the epoxy for each layer, only maybe a half inch of the roll each time and then still have some unused material. I found that there isn't much of a gap down in the hole where you insert the putty to have to worry about some of it going too far into the slot and interfering with the butterfly valve. I just used a small bent flathead nail as a "tamper" to press the putty into the slot filling it slightly more than required to point where the spring clip installs. You have to do this step VERY quickly, tamping the putty into the cavity and then QUICKLY inserting the spring clip. If you aren't fast at it, you won't be able to get the clip in! I was just able to get the clip in before the putty hardened. I unfortunately didn't get a photo of the cavity half filled.

Very important: after the putty has hardened about 5 mins or so you can twist the valve lever and break the shaft free from the putty and twist it back and forth a few times. You must do this or the shaft will be sealed to the putty and won't rotate.

After the putty had hardened, I then used a small screwdriver to remove any loose putty to prepare for the second layer.

10). After allowing the first layer fully harden, which is listed as about an hour, I applied the second layer into the cavity. I feel that they second layer will add more support to the shaft since it supports the shaft closer to the lever arm where loads from the actuator are applied. Putty is applied the same way as the first, using a flat blade screwdriver to help smooth out the top to fully fill the cavity. My hope is that the second layer will bond to the spring clip and to the walls of the cavity. Don't forget to twist the shaft to free it from the hardening putty after the putty has mostly hardened, which I found to be about 5 minutes.

11). Reinstall the actuator, the space blanket, and the axle shaft, torquing the axle shaft bolts to their appropriate torques. Note that there is some confusion as to what those torques are supposed to be, and it apparently varies based on what transmission you have and the size of the fasteners.

12). Reinstall underbelly cover and any other removed parts.


Here is a photo of the completely repair after the second layer has been added and hardened, and actuator reinstalled:




So as I mentioned above, I don't know yet how long this will last but I am hopeful. If it does fail I will post that info here and will update my procedure to reflect what I learn. I have some thoughts about how to do it stronger that I will probably pursue if this repair doesn't last.

I'll be glad to update the procedure listing based on inputs from others, and my own experience with how long this repair approach lasts.

Tim
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Last edited by bondtimbond; January 30th, 2016 at 07:10.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 10:22   #24
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The repair we tried, which is far more extensive than yours and involved the expertise of a large aircraft company local to our shop has proven to last no longer than the original did. Looked nice, and looked promising, but in the end just didn't work out like we wanted it to.

My next idea was to just remove the flap, shaft and weld the whole mess up, so that the EGR flow is free to go through or around the cooler on its own.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 15:21   #25
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If my repair lasts 85K like the original did I will be happy. :-)
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Old August 19th, 2014, 23:27   #26
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Hey guys I fixed the original pictures I posted (page 1), I didn't know they were down.

★ ★ ★
UPDATE: Now I think 6,000 miles still NO HISS at all :-). I just did my turbo rebuild so I had a good chance to inspect the epoxy and all of it is still there, none burned off, none was gone. Still holding super strong, I was afraid that the heat would make the epoxy soft but the stuff is hard as a rock. Don't think its going anywhere.
★ ★ ★
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PS bondtimbond awesome write up + thanks for better pics. I know just about everyone is gonna need this sometime in the future.
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Old August 23rd, 2014, 13:24   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supak111 View Post
Hey guys I fixed the original pictures I posted (page 1), I didn't know they were down.

★ ★ ★
UPDATE: Now I think 6,000 miles still NO HISS at all :-). I just did my turbo rebuild so I had a good chance to inspect the epoxy and all of it is still there, none burned off, none was gone. Still holding super strong, I was afraid that the heat would make the epoxy soft but the stuff is hard as a rock. Don't think its going anywhere.
★ ★ ★
.
PS bondtimbond awesome write up + thanks for better pics. I know just about everyone is gonna need this sometime in the future.
.
.
I tried the same fix and man are you right about the short time the epoxy sets up. Well under 2 minutes once mixed together. I filled the entire housing hole and then some and was unable to put the cer-clip back in but it did not seem to matter. The epoxy was 1/2" thick and made a Super bushing bearing surface that holds the shaft centered and supported, BUT The fix needs a seal of some sort added to the fix. Some sort of half cut pushed together or open wrapped type high temp seal for the shaft to stop ALL exhaust gasses from bubbling out when soaped up with a leak solution. Even a little exhaust leak will cause the ECU to not function correctly and request a different vane opening in the turbo as seen on the VAG. When you clean out the defective high temp seal from the old housing, either before you add the epoxy or half way through the packing, you need to somehow wrap a high temp sealant type material of some sort around the shaft that seals the shaft from leaking even a little bit. I am sure they make something to work as a seal but without a seal you will still have a small leak of exhaust. I love this fix but after doing it and seeing the small leak I decided to spent the $310 and replace the entire cooler and 4 hours of labor at $89/hr., ouch!!. In hind sight, I should have put a seal in that opening and then the fix would be better then a new cooler with the crappy defective seal. Now I have my old cooler to play with but that epoxy works great but do please remember, when you need it together, your working time is so so. so short, have everything ready and use all three or four hands and work real fast fast fast. lol.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 20:49   #28
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Having done the bushing Modification, I think this will work just as well in half the time! Great Work, Team Members!
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Old August 27th, 2014, 08:43   #29
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Having done the bushing Modification, I think this will work just as well in half the time! Great Work, Team Members!
=If the EGR valve controls the exhaust going back into the intake manifol, what is the purpose of the flap that is prone to leaks? Seem like you could just remove that flap and weld that hole shut. Again, with the epoxy fix, their will still be some exhaust leaking by the shaft and epoxy without a true seal on the shaft of some sort.
I think it is good to have an EGR system working but seems redundent with the cooler flap before the EGR valve that opens and closes shutting off the exhaust.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:21   #30
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It doesn't regulate EGR flow, it regulates if the EGR goes through the cooler or bypasses it. The EGR valve itself is what regulates the actual flow.
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