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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old October 1st, 2019, 16:11   #1
Roadkil4
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Old Town Maine
TDI(s): Mk4 Golf
Fuel Economy: 35-42
Default B7 A4 2.0T to BRM TDI

Going right off the deep end here as I don't have much experience with the BRM motors (explicitly ALH) but I picked up a pretty clean 2007 Audi A4 with the 2.0t the previous owner disassembled. This is the second 07 A4 i've owned, and aside from the insurance, I love these cars.
-Black heated leather
-AWD goodness
-At 6'6" tall it's comfortable
-6-speed (more on that later)
-and a pretty spacious engine bay compared to what's out there

I found with my last B7 A4 2.0t, the gear ratio in 6th is similar in rpm to my ALH wagon in 5th with the A4 turning slightly slower. The BPY block is EXTREMELY similar to the BRM, so bolting motor mount brackets should be the same. I already know I need a different accessory bracket, but I have a few found.

A few things I know little about: Fuel delivery. The 2.0t is a return-less system with only one line being ran from front of the car to the rear, pressure either being done by a pressure regulator in the back or PWM to the pump...since I didn't find the PWM module mentioned in other forums about the 2.0t, so i'm not as sure. I may have been looking in the wrong area. I did pull the Jetta fuel pump for Frankenstein play later.

Boost and exhaust plumbing will be Frankenstein/custom.

A few things I know NOTHING about, that the stock gas ECU talks to, I.E. ABS, Airbags, CC, etc. and what those systems need from the ECU. I assume fan control is a big one and from a few forums i've been reading, ABS.

So far, I have the car and the engine+ECU+some of the wiring needed.

Thanks for sticking around through this random thought vomit, here's some pics as your reward:

Towmaster 2500:


Needs a good cleaning




Pine cones add flavor


The BRM with mated DSG


A few questions for the hive mind:
Clutch? Was thinking of bolting the gas 2.0t one temporarily for fit up, but not sure what to run permanently. Was thinking the 4.2l v8, as I would already be using its starter (same or similar i've read).

Pedal? Same pedal in the Audi as the TDI?

ECU? Was planning on running the stock one out of the 06 Jetta I pulled everything out of, but I already know this won't be a great idea. Standalone, at best.

More to come as I find the time.

Last edited by Roadkil4; October 1st, 2019 at 16:29.
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Old October 1st, 2019, 16:33   #2
Roadkil4
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Old Town Maine
TDI(s): Mk4 Golf
Fuel Economy: 35-42
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Just found this link, gonna lurk for a while

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=353866
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Old October 1st, 2019, 16:38   #3
mogly
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sarnia, ON, Canada
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Cool project.

The BRM came in a Mk V which is transverse mounting. The A4 is longitudinally mounted.

Likely your easiest route is the BHW in regards to engine hardware and the engine wire harness.
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 13:13   #4
Roadkil4
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Don't think that will matter. Friend came with an A4 came at with me with a broken TB in his A4, was able to swap one in from a Passat. The blocks are borderline identical with some major exceptions being the hard pipe coming out of the water pump area. All the mounting bosses are there between the two blocks, just not all of them are used.
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 14:20   #5
mogly
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Not being discouraging. Just stating that the mounts, cooling system, accessory bracket etc on the BHW are what you need.
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Old October 3rd, 2019, 16:39   #6
Roadkil4
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Absolutely! I found that BKE is the 1.9 TDI which came in the B7 A4 in Europe, Accessory bracket on the watch list, waiting to hear back on shipping cost. Hoping the motor mount brackets are the same, but ready to hunt those down if need be. Cooling will be a Frankenstein snake of pipes until I can get a proof of concept going. Intercooler will be all Aluminum tubes unless I hunt down that pipe too.

My largest concern is fuel delivery from the tank.

I'm hoping the wiring harness is similar, because the euro ones stretch all the way to where the cabin filter would be here in NA. Not opposed to re-pinning or cut/splice, but would rather I didn't.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 13:24   #7
Koehn
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I can't speak from B7 experience, but the 2.0T fuel delivery system is likely the same as what was in my late-model B6 1.8T with the updated tank. Fuel filter mounted on the passenger side of the tank (just forward of the rear wheel) is also a pressure regulator so there's a return line back to the tank there.

What I and others have done is remove and bypass the filter for the fuel feed line and then use the hard evap lines that parallel the fuel line under the body of the car as a return line. I salvaged connectors from the evap system as I scraped it which made everything click together nice and easy with just a few short runs of fuel hose.

For the pump there's generally two options:
  1. run a diesel lift pump (BHW, BEW, or really any PD lift pump can be removed from the plastic carrier and inserted into your 2.0T's with some modification with a grinder), or
  2. keep the gas system as-is and run a fuel-pressure regulator set at ~11 psi (?) with bypass.

If you can get the longitudinal engine mounts from a NA Passat or international A4, those should bolt to the block fine and will definitely fit the chassis.

I'm still working out the kinks from my swap, but I also kept my gasser 6-speed. Mine is a GJW 02X, not sure what yours is. 6th is nice and high for cruising, and my only real complaint is that 1st is too low and 2nd is too high. Idle in 1st is close to ~5kmph which doesn't get you far off the line before you have to shift.

I believe the clutches from the either the 2.0T or the 4.2L won't work with the diesel crank but I can't say for sure as I don't know much about the BPY. I ended up going diesel-oem with a 240mm DMF from an AVF diesel. This combo was only for 6-speeds and requires a specific euro-only starter. Whitbread Performance also makes a pretty trick 240mm SMF that can use the standard BHW starter. There might also be some more options for B7's, but I think they are the same as the B6's in that regard.

For wiring I think you'll likely want a BKE/BPW/etc wiring harness and ecu (I think that's an EDC16). If you get one from a RHD car you'll have about four feet of extra wire to deal with, so try to source a LHD harness. The connectors between chassis and engine are likely all the same, but there will almost certainly be some repining and reworking required. The gasoline system has circuits that the diesel doesn't and vice-versa.

The accelerator pedal is different for TDI models, so you'll have to source the correct one. I don't think there is a difference RHD to LHD for this.



All in all, it's a really fun process and I look forward to seeing what you put together!
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Old October 17th, 2019, 09:41   #8
Roadkil4
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TDI(s): Mk4 Golf
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Thanks for the reply! After doing a bit more googling, a 4.2l flywheel won't work as it's an 8 hole style. I haven't touched the car because of life, but hopefully that will change this weekend.

As for the wiring harness, I have no problem repinning anything, but trying to find a Bentley for the European model, much less a wiring diagram has been difficult. I'll try to run the stock harness as it all collects by the flywheel anyway, so I'm hoping it will be long enough, I did find a few RHD harnesses, but no LHD ones.

I picked up a BDM and an ECU flash stand to try to reflash the current ECU to play like the BPY one does, once I get my hands on a .bin for it. I'll need this for ABS and the fans to play well, along with any tuning I do down the road.

I'm gonna pull the motor, mount brackets off, and hopefully get them bolted on in the car so I can sell off the rest.

I did grab a bunch of extra fuel fittings and did some shameless studying of the fuel system of a B7 A4 at the local junkyard (this project is currently 100miles from me) and there are two hard lines ran to the front from the back and the filter. As mentioned, my plan is to drop the diesel fuel pump in the Audi sender and make all that work. Elimination of the stock fuel pump controller sandwiched between the tank and the body may need to happen.

Stay tuned.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 08:59   #9
d24tdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkil4 View Post
As for the wiring harness, I have no problem repinning anything, but trying to find a Bentley for the European model, much less a wiring diagram has been difficult.
FWIW in case it helps on what you mentioned above: for a few of my conversion projects I have been able to use Audi's German factory service info site (erwin.audi.com) from here in the US with a few easy workarounds. Once you have created a profile (for free) you can buy access for either an hour for around $10, a day for more money, or a full year for $400+. During the time you have access you can download as many PDFs as you want, so even with just the cheap 1 hour option you can get a lot of info. The times I have done it I just pour a cup of coffee and cram through as much as I can in an hour, download the document if you think there is any chance you will need it, get a big trove of info then sort through it later to find specific details needed. Works well.

The info you get is factory wiring diagrams, service procedures, etc, the original source material for the Bentley books we get for stateside models. Lots of other interesting stuff in there too like TSBs, installation instructions for neat Euro market features we never got here, etc.

The only tricky part is that you need to register under a European or UK address and the site will not let you create a profile if it notices you are not in the country you claim you are in based on your ISP details. I just used a free online German proxy server to make it look like I was accessing the site from there and put in a random address of a hotel in Berlin for contact info and the site took it with no problem.

Good luck, will be watching your swap. I have an '01 6-speed Allroad and an '04 Passat, want to put a Euro 2.5 V6 TDI in the Allroad but probably will end up using its BHW engine instead, pretty similar to your BRM installation. Look forward to seeing how this goes.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 12:47   #10
Koehn
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d24tdi View Post
FWIW in case it helps on what you mentioned above: for a few of my conversion projects I have been able to use Audi's German factory service info site (erwin.audi.com) from here in the US with a few easy workarounds. Once you have created a profile (for free) you can buy access for either an hour for around $10, a day for more money, or a full year for $400+. During the time you have access you can download as many PDFs as you want, so even with just the cheap 1 hour option you can get a lot of info. The times I have done it I just pour a cup of coffee and cram through as much as I can in an hour, download the document if you think there is any chance you will need it, get a big trove of info then sort through it later to find specific details needed. Works well.
The info you get is factory wiring diagrams, service procedures, etc, the original source material for the Bentley books we get for stateside models. Lots of other interesting stuff in there too like TSBs, installation instructions for neat Euro market features we never got here, etc.
The only tricky part is that you need to register under a European or UK address and the site will not let you create a profile if it notices you are not in the country you claim you are in based on your ISP details. I just used a free online German proxy server to make it look like I was accessing the site from there and put in a random address of a hotel in Berlin for contact info and the site took it with no problem.
Good luck, will be watching your swap. I have an '01 6-speed Allroad and an '04 Passat, want to put a Euro 2.5 V6 TDI in the Allroad but probably will end up using its BHW engine instead, pretty similar to your BRM installation. Look forward to seeing how this goes.
Wish I new you could access the German online version from North America when I was doing my digging! I'll have to keep your steps in mind if I ever need to access it in the future. I ended up using a (ahem) less-than-legal old copy of ElsaWin I found online for all the AVF/AWX-specific wiring, but all the diagrams were in German. So not only did I have to learn to read the diagrams, I had to teach myself German at the same time!

I also purchased a European Hanes manual through Amazon, because Hanes online won't sell you European-specific books, or access the online versions without a European shipping address. It's been great to have in conjunction with my North American Bentley manual for physical tasks and torque specs, but the wiring diagrams in the Hanes are basically useless as they are only Typicals.
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Old October 24th, 2019, 18:52   #11
Roadkil4
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Old Town Maine
TDI(s): Mk4 Golf
Fuel Economy: 35-42
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So, after tearing into it this weekend:

2.0t is out, harness fully disconnected with the exception of where it goes into the box under the rain tray (couldn't get the wiper arms off, didn't want to break anything), front clip is fully off.

2.0t fully stripped, pictures taken of mounting boss both PS and DS side for side by side comparison (Will upload photos later, phone's dead), clutch is off, pan off and everything put aside.

BRM separated from DSG (fun fact: flywheel bolts are the same between the two), EGR cooler is off, accessory bracket is off, pictures taken of both sides for comparison.

First off, reusing the Passenger motor mount bracket is a NO GO, lower two(of four) bolt hole bosses on TDI are non-existent, top two are fine.

Driver side mount will work, but either the thermostat housing will need to be switched with something different or the coolant temp sensor will need to be relocated. You can bolt the fourth bolt or leave the sensor plugged in, not both!...I mean, unless you are an Angle Grinder Olympics Gold Medalist. In my scrapping, I have sourced both the plug to blank off, and the remote housing for, the coolant temp sensor. Plug is from an early (99.5 to 01?) Golf/Jetta/Beetle ALH? Will run through the junkyard tomorrow to verify.

Clutch Starter Arrangment:
@Koehn is correct on the combo, not sure if this is an 02x only starter(haven't verified the trans yet, but my research is confirming that's what I have (as per my interpretation...Audi trans's as for what they came in and when is kinda grey)). After doing some UK eBay research, the BPY starter is STOUT compared to mine. The big hint is the bolts sandwiching the motor assy is on the INSIDE of the case vs. outside of. Mine is very thin and long. Again, pics to follow. So, clutch will need to be sorted. That's a money answer, not there yet.

After running through the junkyard, Koehn is right again, it's a return-less system with the regulator in the filter.

Turbo: It's all backward-upside-down-face. Exhaust shoots forward (HOODSDTACK!?!?!?), turbo is above the manifold, cold-side shoots aft(all of it). Darkside development has a turbo...again, money answer. I want to get it all bolted in and snuggled before I start throwing new parts at it.

@d24tdi, that's what VPN's are for! And thanks for the tip!! Will definitely be hitting that up!

I washed it, and now it sits next to a telephone pole on a friends property. BRM on a stand. Tow-pig/3/4-ton mobile shed doesn't have ~750lbs motor and trans chilling out in the back anymore (just 2.0t guts, DSG and an 01m from an ALH manual swap)

Winning?
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Old October 28th, 2019, 16:20   #12
Roadkil4
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TDI(s): Mk4 Golf
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As promised, Pictures!

Empty engine bay, will need to figure coolant hose routing later.


Driver side engine bracket, I can put that bolt in, or plug that sensor in, not both.


Same bracket, but from further away:


Turbo side engine bracket, top two holes line up, bottom one is not even close. Translated forward about an inch with nothing behind it.


The three wrong starters:
Top one is the BRM w DSG starter
Middle, 2.0t with 02X 6speed trans
Bottom, 4.2l v8 with 01e(?), was a FB Marketplace find.


Big difference between the 2.0t and the European starter is its bigger in diameter and the bolts holding it all together are internal to the motor housing, like the DSG one. Will experiment later.

BRM Turbo side. Room for compound?!?


BDM 100 is set up, don't mind the awful solder job, it worked!


This past Saturday, I made a spreadsheet breaking down the Audi's T94 pin connector, populating each row with its function, only 33 wires used.

If anyone is willing to share with me some info on the BRM T94 connector, it would be extremely appreciated! The Excel file will be shareable to anyone interested, but is not complete.

07 Audi A4 2.0t Auto:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hP...QssnQ35IU100fJ
*INCOMPLETE* 06 Jetta 1.9l TDI BRM w DSG
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xh...6lf9zt0jfXBQtm

I got the ECU .dumps too, if anyone wants those.

Today I pulled the accessory bracket and both engine support brackets from a B6 1.8t 20v. Passats have the A/C on the turbo side and have a clutched fan I don't want to deal with.

More to follow!
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Old November 12th, 2019, 16:35   #13
Roadkil4
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Small update/Random knowledge dump:

20v 1.8t's from b6 A4's have engine mount bracketry that will fit the BRM TDI, not sure if one from a Passat will, but I assume it does. I had to notch it out by the upper right mount hole 1/4" wide by about a 1/4" deep to clear a web in the block, a grinder with a flap disc made quick work of that (orange spot).











Neither the 1.8t or the 2.0t accessory brackets will fit and align, as seen in the next photo. I assume this is because the timing belt widths physically push the accessories forward on diesels.. Gassers seem to be 23mm wide, ALH diesels are 25.4mm wide and BEW/BRM/BHWs are 30mm, so a Euro accessory bracket will need to be ordered. I know it was said, but I wanted to be sure.



Also, was able to get the coolant sensor plug in, and I feel dumb for not thinking of it: either unbolt the T-stat housing and clip it in or remove the sensor from the T-stat housing and replace it after reconnecting.

Slow progress.

Last edited by Roadkil4; November 12th, 2019 at 16:37.
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