Ditching the Michelin Pilot Sport AS3's

After 18K miles on the Michelin AS3's I talked Sams Club into doing a warranty claim. These were the loudest tires I've every owned and were horrible in heavy rains. For the first time in my life these tires scared me in the rain on 3 different occasions on the highway from 60-75 mph. The tread blocks were wearing uneven on the edges as well. I had the car aligned before I put the Michelins on. Paid again to have the alignment rechecked and I was told everything was fine. Then I put on new shocks and struts and realigned and still no change. Also fuel economy was down. Rotations and rebalance every 5K miles by Sams. Im going with the Pirelli P7 all season plus. 70k mile warranty and get much better reviews. I drive 120 miles a day to and from work.

Yeah, Pilots would not be a very good choice on that car.

What really determines that for those of us out shopping? Michelin touts it as their awesome all season tire.

Decades of experience. And the knowledge of how the A5 chassis handles certain tires. Michelin makes excellent tires. All my dubs have them save for the Eurovan, and that is only because Michelin can't be bothered to sell tires for it here anymore (it got Continental Vancos).

The Primacy or Premier work pretty well on the A5s, as do the General Altimax. The Bridgestone Turanza isn't too bad, but they wear quicker.

The Pilot is a tread pattern that is more performance oriented, but then the compound they use is a little harder than I think it should be. So instead of being quiet and grippy and wearing out quickly, they just get chunky and square.

The Pirelli P7 isn't a bad tire on the A5, either, really.

For the money, from what I have seen, the Altimax is probably one of the best. They are reasonably affordable, decent grip and treadlife, stay round, and balance out well. We've been installing a lot of those lately with good success.

Are you sure your are referring to the AS3's?

Yes, the Pilot Sport A/S 3. Now, those are available in the proper H rating, which will be less obnoxious than the W or Y rated tires, but still not nearly as good of a tire on the A5 as the Premier or Primacy.

I have Primacy MXM4s on both my Passats and my Golf. They are excellent tires. But, the B5 and A4 cars, with the 195-65-15 tires, are going to be better on tires anyways than the A5s with their standard 205-55-16 (or worse, the 17 inch wheels).

We are a tire retailer, we sell lots of them. I never push for the Pilots, and if someone specifically asks for them, unless they are replacing an OEM tire, I would try and steer them to one of the others. Many Porsche models come standard with the Y rated Pilots. But those are not the A/S3, those are the Exalto.

The Defenders give up traction and sound for longevity, which I don't care for myself. And I have found them to be a bit loud on the A5. They do wear like iron, though. If all you are after is an incredibly long treadlife, and nothing else, then those are really good. They also have Michelin's "Green X" low rolling restistance rating, but so do the Primacy models. So I'm not sure you are getting anything extra there.

I get about 75k miles out of a set of Primacys on the Passats, and about 90k miles out of them on my Golf. And I don't run them clear into the wear bars. The A5s with the 16 inch wheels are usually good for about 50k miles or so.

Had the P7s put on today. Amazing the difference. It's like a new car!

For the money, from what I have seen, the Altimax is probably one of the best. They are reasonably affordable, decent grip and treadlife, stay round, and balance out well. We've been installing a lot of those lately with good success.
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The Defenders give up traction and sound for longevity, which I don't care for myself. And I have found them to be a bit loud on the A5. They do wear like iron, though. If all you are after is an incredibly long treadlife, and nothing else, then those are really good. They also have Michelin's "Green X" low rolling restistance rating, but so do the Primacy models. So I'm not sure you are getting anything extra there.

I have a set of Defenders on my 2009 JSW and they do wear like iron. They get noisy as well and I have had some success with (Incorrectly) rotating them front to rear and side to side. This seems to calm back down the roar that I think develops from the wear pattern from the geometry of the rear suspension.

I wonder which model General Altimax you would recommend for the 16" 2009 JSW and the 17" 2013 JSW? or what tire for best compromise.
While I like the long life I have gotten from the original Hankook (80,000) Nokian enTyre (80,000) and the Defenders (75,000 miles so far) I find the noise they develop more irritating as I get older. Also She Who Must Be Obeyed complains about any noise on HER car!
What is best to keep me out of the doghouse? (remember I am pretty cheap (I mean thrifty and best use of resources))

Altimax RT43.

I also rotate rear to front, and fronts criss-crossed to rear, for best equalization of wear patterns. That way, every tire spends some time at every corner. This is why directional tires are so bad. You can't cross them. And if they have an inside/outside, you can't even pop them off the rim and flip them for use on the other side of the car.

Of course, no Volkswagen that I know of ever came with directional tires anyways. Even the R32 didn't.

I'm sticking with the Primacy on my cars, but I won't knock the Altimax, they seem pretty good. They have a 700 treadwear rating, too.

Do they still say don't cross radial tiers? When they first came into general use the "wisdom" was don't cross radials, but my experience is if you don't the wear pattern son the VW will make them noisy.
Thanks for the reply.

No, that is a long-gone thing. Some manufacturers even specifically have you doing cross rotations, and/or adding the spare tire into the rotation.

I guess I will start doing it like I did in the old days again and get the spare on the ground!

Thanks!

Michelin Pilot Super Sports; OE size 225/45/HR17 w/GTI alloy's

This is timely post. Took a flier on the Michelin Pilot Super Sports with a replacement soon around the corner; I'll stretch to get 25K miles total - as expected. To reach the 25K mile mark I'll get uncomfortably close to the wear bars which isn't an ideal practice having learned a hard lesson in tire adhesion decades ago; 911 coupes do spin!

The daily driver TDI's OE 16" alloys we're uprated with MY07 GTI 10 spoke alloys, 7x17et54, with GTI tire sizes. The Pilot Super Sports proved to be an excellent tire: Rain - excellent, Noise - uber, uber quiet, Braking - anchors away, Handing - excellent. The Super Sports are Tier 1 gummi sport car tires. And I luv'em on the MkV Jetta chassis coupled with RoW Germany market GLI springs w/ good ole HD Bilstein's.

.... "Its The Tire Wear Stupid" .....

The idea was to take a flier on the newer Pilot Sport AS/3 in an effort to gain tire wear and give up a little performance,,, but not so fast given the OPs experience. Over the decades I've used the general purpose Michelin MXV4 on a MB, Volvo, MkV Jetta and they suck in the rain once you near the half way wear mark.
Maybe Oilhammer's Michelin MXM4 experience is the ticket. IIRC the MXM4 is BMW 5 series OE fitment. Luv the Pilot Super Sports ... there over the line in terms of over kill on the MkV Jetta chassis, unless ....purchasing a Tier 1 tire set every 25K miles floats yer boat. If the Jetta could morph into the killer mid-engine Cayman coupe chassis. That's a daily driver!

Is would seem Michelin hasn't retired PS2 production in N spec., Porsche sizes etc. A recent PS2 N spec purchase for my MY98 993 coupe has a 12/2014 production. The understanding from Michelin was the Pilot Sport 3 would be the PS2's replacement. Is there availability of a Michelin Pilot Sport 3 tire? In N spec to boot? I'll reach out to a couple of PAG technical resources for the current dope.
A Pilot Sport 3 summer tire might be a solution for those MkV chassis guy's who want a more athletic tire choice. Tread wear be dammed.

PS. The Jetta has dedicated winter sneakers with Dunlop Winter Sport 3D.

jsharum said:

After 18K miles on the Michelin AS3's I talked Sams Club into doing a warranty claim. These were the loudest tires I've every owned and were horrible in heavy rains. For the first time in my life these tires scared me in the rain on 3 different occasions on the highway from 60-75 mph. Edit/Delete text .

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Like OH said cross rotation gives tires the best chance for the longest life.