Controversy surrounding VW suicide bomber ad

NateTDI · Jan 23, 2005

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42499

Curious Chris · Jan 23, 2005

I think it is a good ad typically funny.

Darren_J · Jan 23, 2005

Just let it die the quick death it deserves. Controversy sells.

fredb · Jan 23, 2005

I don't believe in violence.
Violence on tv is a cause to the problems we face today in society. over 100,000 people have died in iraq since
King george II started this whole mess.
Maybe you don't know anyone who has been killed by a car bomb.
This is exactly how the media softens our society to such abominations.
I am glad they are pulling this add.

insensitive jerks.

' Iraq ..home of the unknown exit strategy"

ok well maybe i laughed a little....

frugality · Jan 23, 2005

IMHO, the insensitive jerks are the ones who think we should just stay in our comfy north american world while people like Saddam and his henchmen kill, rape, and terrorize the Iraqi public. Except for his Sunni minority ruling class, of course. Saddam started the mess, not King George. If he'd let the inspectors do their work and not block them or do the, "guess what I'm hiding behind my back" thing, we wouldn't be in this mess.

I'd like to see the brainwashed North Korean people liberated from their despotic leader, too. But maybe we're better off not thinking about it. We have more important things like chips and nozzles to think about. The heck with the rest of the world...not my problem....

Pevey · Jan 23, 2005

100,000 on the road to peace vs well over a million on the road to nowhere. Those people have a chance now, they have to choose to take it.
And if you call him King George around me while I'm not wearing my uniform I'd probably slap ya silly. Jerk.

fredb · Jan 24, 2005

king george king george king george lol
well i guess iv'e been told.
Hey that 100,000 consisted of mostly innocent women and children . (collaterol damage) Well i guess it serves them
right for building thier homes on top of our oil.
Don't be so naive to believe this is liberation..
It's colonization and control .the best democracy money can buy.ok ok back to tdi's I am done playing boys.

peace

TDIdenver · Jan 24, 2005

fredb is from vermont....they threw rocks at a National Guardswoman walking through the capital city of Montpelier in uniform right after Bush sent troops to Iraq. What did that accomplish? Just had o get my 2 cents in, I'm done

scooperhsd · Jan 24, 2005

I thought that ad was kind of cute - VW Lupa CONTAINED an bomb...

POWERSTROKE · Jan 24, 2005

Since this has been basically turned into a political thread, well, it actually sort of started out as one, I will add my unwanted two cents. First off, I am pretty well read on this whole Iraq thing. There are a couple of problems with many peoples viewpoint on this. First off, unless we all get rid of our cars and our houses, we need oil. As I understand it, most of America needs oil to operate, am I right here? O.K., I will proceed. The "We went there for oil argument" does not hold any water with me, because yes, that is part of the reason we went over there. We also went there to set up a central intelligence for the middle east. The reason 9/11 happened was very simple, we had no central intelligence in the region, so far I think these two points are enough to go over to Iraq. Third, we saved people in Germany because of human rights violations, why not go to Iraq and save these people? Then the next classic line emerges.... "Why Iraq? Why not North Korea? Why not Iran? etc" ad nauseum. Well, if we learned anything from Napolean and ******, it is not a good idea to spread troops to thin, you have to start somewhere. In my opinion, it is foolish to think that post 9/11 is the same as pre 9/11. My question to those who are against the war ( I don't like war either) is what was a President supposed to do? I know the common answer is "Go after Al Qaeda in Afghanistan!", but little do many know that Al Qaeda were actually trained in terrorist camps in Iraq, such as Salman Pak.
My point is that this "problem" that the Western World is both complicated, and cancerous. In my opinion, to sit back and relax is a mistake. Did G.W. Bush make mistakes? Yes. Is he my favorite? No. Should he have secured the Mexican borders? Yes. Listen, this guy is definitively not the best President we have ever had, but I can tell you that sitting back and hoping for the best, is not an answer. I have a cousin that was deployed in Iraq up until a couple months ago, so I know what it is like to have family there, but something needs to be done.
P.S. Should this thread be locked? Just going with the flow.

TDIdenver · Jan 24, 2005

Amen. Now lock the thread.

mgwerks · Jan 24, 2005

'Stroke -
Excellent post. I bet Peavy is with you on the Mexican border issue.

Peavy -
I'll hold your b&c while you do it.

All -
One of the things I have really enjoyed about the group here at Fred's is that the politico-religious involvement is kept to a dull rumble. It's not that I don't have strong feelings on these subjects, it's just that I get more than my fill on other boards (like the Org.). This is a great group of people with a fine history and heritage of help for others, and I hate to see it devolve into another petty skirmish-filled battlefield.

gern_blanston · Jan 24, 2005

I'm with PowerStroke on this one, 100%. Very well said. I'm not a huge Bush fan, and there have obviously been some mistakes made, but

sitting back and hoping for the best, is not an answer

If you have the choice, you must fight your battles somewhere other than on your own soil.

Pevey · Jan 24, 2005

Well I guess I am a Bush fan. I've met him and he's just an average guy, he's not perfect, he doesn't have X-ray vision or see the future. He's trying to do a job, depending on people and knowing that large part of the population hate from the start, just because he has different views.

As for the war for oil statement, I seem to remember that we basically ran the bad guys out of Kuwait and we gave it back to the people that live there. War for oil was the protest then and we stole nothing.
If the press will ever report things honestly, everyone would know what horrible conditions existed over there before we went in. The President was right when he said this week that we should not support or do business with anyone who violates basic civil rights. I pray we can all stand behind a policy like that.
I had a long frustrating day at work yesterday. I should refrain from calling people jerks.

POWERSTROKE · Jan 24, 2005

Well I guess I am a Bush fan. I've met him and he's just an average guy, he's not perfect, he doesn't have X-ray vision or see the future. He's trying to do a job, depending on people and knowing that large part of the population hate from the start, just because he has different views.

As for the war for oil statement, I seem to remember that we basically ran the bad guys out of Kuwait and we gave it back to the people that live there. War for oil was the protest then and we stole nothing.
If the press will ever report things honestly, everyone would know what horrible conditions existed over there before we went in. The President was right when he said this week that we should not support or do business with anyone who violates basic civil rights. I pray we can all stand behind a policy like that.
I had a long frustrating day at work yesterday. I should refrain from calling people jerks.

Good post. That is what I was trying to say about Bush in a less eloquent manner.

snoopis · Jan 24, 2005

Well said Powerstroke. I do have one point where my opinion differs though. While I do believe it is about terrorism and the Middle East, there's still a possibility that fighting terrorism and making friends in the Middle East is a means to a greater end.

I posted this in another forum, so to make it easy on myself, I'll just C&P

I'm starting to think fighting terrorism in the middle east is just a means to an end. That end being having a base in the Middle East, for dealing with China and their friends(Iran, Syria, etc).

But anyway, we have the US building a National Missile Defense, China with an ever increasing quantity of nukes and now a new means of deployment, Russia creating some new magical nuke, Iran getting closer to having nukes every day... does anyone think maybe the Cold War never really ended?

And where does Europe stand in all of this?

China first-
Ok, military budget:
2001- Increased 17.7%
2002- Increased 17.6%
2003- Increased 9.6%
2004- Increased 11.6%
That's over 150% increase over four years.

Navy:
Starting in 1994, they have started buying used aircraft carriers from other countries for the purpose of studying and reverse engineering. They have purchased at least four, and are now building their own. It won't be quite a full-size aircraft carrier, but more like a heavy aircraft cruiser. They are also updating their navy bases and ports to accomodate ships like this.

They are now building second generation nuclear submarines, as well as affecting further modernization of their non-nuclear submarine fleet. They are designing and building frigates and destroyers. In addition, they are creating amphibious landing ships which can carry about 15 tanks and 200 soldiers.

Of course, in combination with all of this is modernization of air power and command and control technology. This is more than defensive, this is China attempting to achieve a strong maritime power status with offensive capabilities. It certainly won't be an overnight transformation, likely taking 50 years before they are even remotely "up to date" or even present with a useful operational Navy.

Space based and missile defense:
China has increased it's ICBM and nuclear capablities greatly over the last 10-20 years. A couple years ago they sent a manned craft to space. Seeing where this is going, the US now wants to accelerate our National Missile Defense program, and start a space-based military program.

The EU is feeling extremely irrelevant and wants to decrease the United States' standing as the lone world super power, as stated openly by Chirac. So the EU tries to encourage us NOT to build a National Missile Defense or space-based program by threatening to remove arms embargos with China. So now we have the EU wanting to sell arms and technology to China(who are known for sharing with North Korea, Iran, and Syria).

The Europeans figure this can go one of two ways:
1.) The US complies, and does not continue with NMD or star wars programs. Thus limiting us from extending our super-power status.
2.) The US does not comply, so the EU then begins arms trade with China. Thus increasing the relevance of China and their friends. Again, limiting our stance as the only standing super power.

Clearly the Europeans are trying to gain relevance in any way they can, even if it means selling arms and technology to China with their <sarcasm>wonderful</sarcasm> human rights record. Any ideas that China is distancing itself from communism just don't add up to me. They open up, just enough to keep that economy growing, and that's it. The economy funds military and gives them a little more bargaining power.

Note, this the same Europe whose constituant nations were cheating the Oil for Food program and helping Saddam to violate sanctions, and were providing Iraq with weapons(some prohibited, some not).

Surely China is not an imminent threat today, and neither is the EU. But to look at China's military build-up(combined with a history much like that of Germany before WWI) and ignore it would be like sitting on a rail-road track and hoping that freight train is going to change lanes. This would seem to agree with the assessment of our military needs from the original post.

Hmm, quell terrorism roots in the Middle East. US now has a friend or two and standing military presence in the Middle East(on top of or in exchange for what has been standing in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait since Gulf War 1). Closer to China, and closer to countries who are friends with China. Maybe the whole terrorism and freedom in the Middle East thing is just a means to a greater end.

Ok, tell me I'm crazy.

Oh yeah, I thought the commerical was hilarious. I guess if I had to deal with that directly every day it might bother me though.

Pevey · Jan 24, 2005

Interesting comments. One way to see how the world feels about the US is to see how they vote at the UN. Arab coutries usually vote about 90% against us. Europe and japan about 50%. The one country that uniformly sides with the US is Isreal. They vote on our side over 90% of the time.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/unvote.asp

I remember that line from "Watership Down". The whole world is your enemy, little one. And when they catch you, they will kill you.
But first, they must catch you.

fase2006 · Jan 24, 2005

For christs sake. It's a damn fine commercial and I laughed. in it, the terrorists lose.

why is everyone so damn whiny?

Slave2school · Jan 24, 2005

I personally do not believe "violence on tv" causes anything (except good ratings). If people cannot seperate reality from "play time" they have a problem to begin with and need to seek out professional help. I enjoy watching violent films, but I really don't feel the urge to plant a bomb in the trunk of my golf and sit outside the nearest starbuck/what have you. The comercial was meant to be funny, people must learn to take things ith a grain of salt. Perhaps it is not entirely tasteful, but that was part of the attention grab.

POWERSTROKE · Jan 24, 2005

I personally do not believe "violence on tv" causes anything (except good ratings). If people cannot seperate reality from "play time" they have a problem to begin with and need to seek out professional help. I enjoy watching violent films, but I really don't feel the urge to plant a bomb in the trunk of my golf and sit outside the nearest starbuck/what have you. The comercial was meant to be funny, people must learn to take things ith a grain of salt. Perhaps it is not entirely tasteful, but that was part of the attention grab.

I didn't even see the commercial, and I really don't care how the Germans market their vehicles. I'll tell you this though, I lost a bunch of friends in the trade center, and a grain of salt just doesn't cut it for me. Again, no offense intended.

Slave2school · Jan 24, 2005

I didn't say to take real life tragedy with a grain of salt! That is the stuff we should worry about, not make beleive crap. All I was saying is that we can't blame commercials and tv in general for the small percentage of radicals that act upon their impulses.

trae · Jan 24, 2005

The President was right when he said this week that we should not support or do business with anyone who violates basic civil rights.

Is he resigning?

Pevey · Jan 24, 2005

whitedog · Jan 24, 2005

fredb · Jan 24, 2005

Well I guess I am a Bush fan. I've met him and he's just an average guy, he's not perfect, he doesn't have X-ray vision or see the future. He's trying to do a job, depending on people and knowing that large part of the population hate from the start, just because he has different views.

Boy you got that right..

As for the war for oil statement, I seem to remember that we basically ran the bad guys out of Kuwait and we gave it back to the people that live there. War for oil was the protest then and we stole nothing

woops i believe it was the neo-cons that said king georgeI
should have gone all the way.Why did saddam set his oil wells on fire and why wwere they the first things protected
this time around.

If the press will ever report things honestly, everyone would know what horrible conditions existed over there. before we went in.

And after.. Look at this abu grave (spelling) prison thing.

The President was right when he said this week that we should not support or do business with anyone who violates basic civil rights.

No unfortunatly he won't be resigning (abu grave prison thing again)

The one country that uniformly sides with the US is Isreal. They vote on our side over 90% of the time.

well yeah!! of course they do.. We are the only ones that fund thier oppression of Palestine..
This is why the arab world hates us to begin with.

I pray we can all stand behind a policy like that.
I had a long frustrating day at work yesterday. I should refrain from calling people jerks.

Apology accepted.

This is just politics we all have our own views on this
crap and forums are easy places to vent. Don't let it get to you..

Jettawolfs98 · Jan 24, 2005

Should he have secured the Mexican borders? Yes.????
Why????
The terrorist are not hispanic right? So.
Explain this to me, Please.
By the way I'm from Mexico.
Have a nice day.

fredb · Jan 24, 2005

fredb is from vermont....they threw rocks at a National Guardswoman walking through the capital city of Montpelier in uniform right after Bush sent troops to Iraq. What did that accomplish? Just had o get my 2 cents in, I'm done

well that is what my profile says.
But I don't agree with throwing rocks at anyone.
in general folks in this state are all good caring people
who believe in speaking up when they see somthing wrong in this country.Not just blindly follow in the grooves.

this is basicly a Canadien forum and i am sure they will get sick of us folks from the states airing our dirty laundry.

I can see where this thread is going and albeit very tempting I will refrain from reading/commenting in the future...You guys are way too easy..
now where was that cool injector thread i was reading..hmmmm..

gern_blanston · Jan 24, 2005

Dangit, I hate getting sucked into political arguments on the web, but

...oppression of Palestine..

[rant]Give me a break. If Arafat and his thugs had moved to Nebraska in the 60's and set up housekeeping, how happy would we all be to have 'em as neighbors? Violent, self-serving, thugs, that's all they are. Every attempt by every government (including ours during Bush Sr's term of office) to deal with the PLO diplomatically has ended in death and destruction.[/rant]

Pevey · Jan 24, 2005

Well Fredb did prove one thing, he does know how to quote.
Little of what he said made sense but I'm just a simple boy from Texas. I'm sure he has a very good education.
If I disliked my country as much as him, I'd be making travel plans. I hear France is nice. Feel free to quote me.
The thing I love about this country is guys like Michael Moore can spread disinformation and lies and not be stood up against a wall. Freedom is a wonderful thing, hu Fredb?

About the southern border, we are always looking for terrorists and while looking we catch an occasional drug load or wanted person. We regularly apprehend people who use fraud in an attempt to enter the US. Most just want to work or enjoy the freedom we have. We don't hate them for it and usually treat them pretty nice but this is a country of laws and we enforce them like we're sworn to do.

nicklockard · Jan 25, 2005

I just wanted to say how proud I am of our group that we can remain civil, yet disagree. The internet as political forum is usually worse than getting drunk and shouting out your politics at your local bar... it almost always is dominated by the basest, crudest, stupidest, and loudest logical drunkards.

So, kudo's to our fine group. I seriously think our average IQ must be a good ten or fifteen points above the mean (100.) May we keep this special quality of intelligent, thoughtful debate (we should try to minimize the politics, as a general rule, I know.)

I just want to address our military members: Now this is not your typical open letter to military guys and gals ... what I want to say is:

Realize that you are being brainwashed day in and day out, and fight it. Fight to retain your sense of unique intellect. The military experience is one of constant indoctrination, and that is absolutely necessary so that you will retain the needed sense of Esprit de Corps. However, it is far far too easy to fall into group-think and get 'hive-mind.' As a younger man, I would have said: "no way, not me...I know where to draw that line. I'm no sucker--I can definitely think for myself." But after I'd been out for 3 years (about half the time I'd been in) I started to 'decompress' and slowly regain my sense of a unique self--my own, forgotten identity. After I'd been out for as long as I'd been in, I finally felt much like my old self again: just older and wiser for having been there.

Keep that in mind as you serve. You took an oath to the uphold the constitution as well... DON'T FORGET. The constitution will be seen as a passing fancy if we do. It's been crapped on a lot lately, and that should not sit right with you. Don't believe in boogeymen...of any flavor.

I don't have to thank you, because you know you are appreciated. You've been raised up on a pedestal by our media. Don't let it get to your heads. Stay true, stay good, stay honest. If you serve like I did, your thanks is from knowing you did a job well. You probably get embarrassed at all the mushy, over-the-top, gratuitous celebrity thank-a-thons on the boob tube constantly. You and I know most of them who haven't served are doing the over-the-top thanking ritual to make themselves feel better.

Controversy surrounding VW suicide bomber ad

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