EGR shenanigans

So, chasing the tuning dragon again. Wanted to see if there was anyone who has tuned the EGR out, if they had any problems passing emissions. Got it rattling around in my head that since VW did their dirty deal, that DEQ would be looking for that kind of stuff. I can find several threads that it's been discussed, but that was years ago.

I mean it would be pretty obvious from an OBD scanner end that it's been deleted, such as monitor showing up as NA, when it's literally the only emissions device on the car.

Gotta love my state. One of the few that still do emissions testing on older cars.

Theres a couple different tests, but ...

"DEQ performs two types of tests at a Clean Air Station. A tailpipe test and a computerized test. Which type your vehicle receives depends upon its age. Whichever test you receive, the outcome we want remains the same. We want to maintain clean and healthy air for our communities, by ensuring vehicles are properly maintained. "

"Visual inspections are not performed even when you bring your car into a Clean Air Station. Instead, for newer cars, a plug-in cable transmits OBD (on-board diagnostics) data between your car's on-board computer and DEQ's vehicle testing computer. The DEQ Too program allows for the same data transmission, but without a cable connection. The program takes advantage of existing telematics and wireless and/or cellular technology to remotely transmit your car's data to DEQ. This single snapshot of data is sent from wherever your car is located at the time of your choosing. "

If they are doing a 'ready state' computerized test on it, it will fail if you don't have a tune to fix the missing EGR.

I've read that a handful of times. I currently have the dynamic egr, so my readiness still shows up for it. I don't want to potentially delete it, just to have to reinstall everything just to pass deq. Seems like a bit of a hastle, and expensive.

I guess I'm asking the wrong questions. Does anyone who has dynamic egr, or egr delete, have any problems with a plug in deq pass? I would assume Malone would program it right, but I have yet to ask him.

My EGR-less ALH passes our OBD test no problem. Readiness is always set.

Although if you already have the dynamic one, you are better off anyway. That is what I would prefer, mine was already gone when I got the car.

All the OBD tests for is readiness set, no DTCs, and no MIL request. That's it.

NY does plug in OBDII emissions testing on diesels. My 04 has all of the EGR equipment removed and deleted from the ECU. That monitor shows "N/A" and passes without a problem. There have been rumors that the state will start tracking what monitors are supposed to be operational on the car when testing, but I'm guessing that will never happen on the older cars.

Also - at least in NY, you are allowed to have one monitor "not ready" (96-00 can have 2 IIRC) - so you should be able to disable it, clear the code and still pass.

Thanks for the input guys. Oregon used to be a 1 monitor unready was OK, but I think they changed that in mid 2015, not sure. Guess it's a good thing I'm trying to stick with EGR on my upgrades I'm trying to do.

All diesels here need all available monitors set, even though they say they can have one unset 2001+, that seems to only apply to the gas cars.

But with the right tune, they always pass without a problem. Even the CR cars with everything deleted.

"with the right tune, they always pass without a problem. Even the CR cars with everything deleted" Oilhammer

Nero,


For a man of your talents, and I believe you have VCDS, set the EGR
adaptation to the minimum. Unplug the EGR, and see if it throws a
code. I'm convinced that since my delete, the turbo is running better.
A catch can and a PD150 intake also contribute to better cleaner airflow as well.

It won't cost much to blank it off and see what happens. Guessing here that all you have to do is block the vacuum line to the valve,
and is there an electric plug/sensor? Sorry I can't remember, I've only had to deal with it once. {) No codes thrown in my case.

I ran a race pipe for a while, and had the EGR blocked off, this is back when the engine was in my 2000 sedan. It did illuminate the CEL for EGR flow. So when I move the engine into my 03 wagon, I installed another Vnt15 that had a better actuator on it and restored the EGR system. Turned down the setting in VCDS as well on the wagon, but havent tried seeing if a CEL will log yet.

I'm still on the fence on what I want to do with it. I still have the race pipe/block off plate if I decide to try putting it back on. I did recently get a frostheater, so that makes my point of faster warm-ups moot

"I still have the race pipe/block off plate if I decide to try putting it back on. I did recently get a frostheater, so that makes my point of faster warm-ups moot "

Well then, what are you waiting for? I suppose if you did it when you
installed the new and improved turbo of choice, it'd be a convenient
time to get 'er all done.

I’ve done the stealth egr just to keep the ASV, so the egr missing.
Also left it in place in case they do a visual, which they don’t.
I’ve had Malone do a stage 3 tune with the egr deletes no eng check light.
I’ve not had any issues passing obd test here in NJ.

If you turn it down and then block off the EGR (either by vacuum or physically with a plate) it will still throw a code.

csstevej said:

I’ve done the stealth egr just to keep the ASV, so the egr missing.
Also left it in place in case they do a visual, which they don’t.
I’ve had Malone do a stage 3 tune with the egr deletes no eng check light.
I’ve not had any issues passing obd test here in NJ.

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That's good to hear. Do they check readiness monitors? Here in Oregon they have a big display that shows all the monitors, and list if it's ready, unready, or NA.

Do you have an egr monitor?

The few times I've had to go into Fix Um Haus, Rich has tried to sell me on his EGR delete. He says he has a "certain" way to do it and that DEQ is not a problem. What bugs me is he's really vague, and short on details like it's some big secret. He probably just thinks I wouldn't understand.

Nero, I bet you could talk shop with him and get some details. He's a serious modder, and seems to have little patience for stock nerds.

I might give him a call then. I've sent a fee pm to members here that are in yhr pdx area, but who knows when they'll be online again...

I know that you can run your car thru DEQ and if it fails, you dont pay. Personally, I'd just run it thru and go from there.

Why will so many people go to such great lengths to do something as pointless as deleting the EGR? There is just really no good reason to do such a thing.

Cooled EGR is a proven effective way to reduce NOx with almost no downside. Stock programming already deactivates EGR at anything over 50% throttle. If you’re concerned about intake clogging, just limit your idling. Anyway, intakes don’t really clog at anywhere near the magnitude they used to in the pre-ULSD days.

runonbeer said:

Why will so many people go to such great lengths to do something as pointless as deleting the EGR? There is just really no good reason to do such a thing.

Cooled EGR is a proven effective way to reduce NOx with almost no downside. Stock programming already deactivates EGR at anything over 50% throttle. If you’re concerned about intake clogging, just limit your idling. Anyway, intakes don’t really clog at anywhere near the magnitude they used to in the pre-ULSD days.

Click to expand...

I find this hard to argue with. Thus I've never bothered removing it. I tend to trust the original engineers of any system vs. modders.
The one thing I still wonder though, is aside from decreased emissions and quicker engine heating, is there any good reason to redirect exhaust into the motor? You have to admit it seems counter-intuitive. Some people on here claim avoiding EGR would extend engine life. I haven't yet heard a counter argument to that notion. And can't think of one myself!

(Sorry, I know this has been beat to death, but new guys still seem to appear often)

I wouldn't remove it UNLESS the cooler was leaking. They're expensive. At this point would I replace a cooler or delete it? Well.... yeah.

See, I have several spare coolers and hoses. Benifit of buying complete cylinder heads at the wrecker. I just bought a brand new EGR valve, because mine was leaking at the weep hole.

I've driven my car with and without the EGR in place. There is a very noticeable difference in time on when it starts pushing heat. That's really why I'd like to keep it. I also don't want any hastle with DEQ. already have that enough with my Samurai

I can say though, that with my dad's car, who has a stock tune, stock everything, except DLC520's, his intake had a fingernails worth of buildup on the intake after about a year.

a fingernails worth of buildup
Is that the skinny 2mm edge? or the ~10mm width?

STDOUBT said:

a fingernails worth of buildup
Is that the skinny 2mm edge? or the ~10mm width?

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Haha it was between 1-2mm in thickness. He definitely doesn't do as much spirited driving as I do, and it's all in town. Had his intake off to fix an exhaust leak

runonbeer,
You said: Stock programming already deactivates EGR at anything over 50% throttle.

If EGR activity is tied to throttle position does that mean I can be rolling down a grade in gear, off the throttle, at 2500 RPM (saving fuel) and the EGR acts like I'm idling?
Or do you mean to say EGR activity is tied to RPM.

I don't know about our engines, but I know heavy duty engines will typically run the egr at least a little in a motoring condition.

STDOUBT said:

runonbeer,
You said: Stock programming already deactivates EGR at anything over 50% throttle.

If EGR activity is tied to throttle position does that mean I can be rolling down a grade in gear, off the throttle, at 2500 RPM (saving fuel) and the EGR acts like I'm idling?
Or do you mean to say EGR activity is tied to RPM.

Click to expand...

I’m not sure but I do know that downhill, in gear injected fuel quantity is exactly zero at anything over 1200 RPM so there are actually zero combustion products being reintroduced if the EGR is active. My guess is that the EGR would also be off under these conditions since, with a zero fuel injection rate, there is also zero NOx production potential.