Strange rattling-like noise

BakoTDI · Feb 7, 2019

I know the title of this thread is very cliche but nevertheless, I have not been able to identify what might be happening with my engine. This started a while ago and at first, I thought it was the serpentine belt tensioner. After changing it, it continued. When I was under the car checking my turbo and oil lines for leaks, noticed that there seemed to be some movement of the actual engine as the noise is present. Here is a video I took this morning that makes it quite clear of the distinct sounds. I appreciate your input on this....

alex_tdi · Feb 7, 2019

I have something very similar.

At first I thought it was my serpentine belt tensioner. I replaced that and the sound was still there.

Some say it's the alternator bearing going out, some say it's the alternator pulley. I spun the alternator pulley round and round and there was no excessive play or weird sound.

My power steering pulley DOES have some play so I have ordered a pulley and see if that will fix it. It's 19 years old and got almost 190K on it anyway.

If that doesn't fix it, then there's only the alternator, idler pulley, and a/c left. But both my idler pulley and a/c compressor are less than a year old.

Or if you have a dual mass flywheel on your transmission, it could be that. But that's usually more of a rattling marbles in a tin can sound.

BakoTDI · Feb 7, 2019

alex_tdi said:
My power steering pulley DOES have some play so I have ordered a pulley and see if that will fix it. It's 19 years old and got almost 190K on it anyway.

If that doesn't fix it, then there's only the alternator, idler pulley, and a/c left. But both my idler pulley and a/c compressor are less than a year old.

What's strange about this, is that it will go away throughout the day and there's no telling when it will happen.

Have thought it could be an injector issue, and if so, might explain my low mpgs (do not be misled by my FUELLY data) even with new turbo and N-75 valve, but that's a different issue.

alex_tdi, let me know what changes with new power steering pulley.

BobnOH · Feb 7, 2019

If you can reproduce sound at idle I like the idea of removing the serpentine belt to rule out all that stuff. In addition to the tensioner we also see alternator and compressor pulleys failing.

BakoTDI · Feb 7, 2019

BobnOH said:
If you can reproduce sound at idle I like the idea of removing the serpentine belt to rule out all that stuff. In addition to the tensioner we also see alternator and compressor pulleys failing.

That’s a good idea. I did come across this video after you mentioned the alternator pulley. I think we might be on to something
https://youtu.be/fq62mPGVTTY
Thanks BobnOH!

alex_tdi · Feb 7, 2019

I also recommend you take off the serpentine belt and run the engine to rule out the timing belt system first.

I had a weird belt sound that came from the timing belt path. After I did a timing belt job, that sound went away.

Your sound could be coming from the tensioner or pulleys in the timing belt path as well.

BakoTDI · Feb 8, 2019

BobnOH said:
If you can reproduce sound at idle I like the idea of removing the serpentine belt to rule out all that stuff.

alex_tdi said:
I also recommend you take off the serpentine belt and run the engine to rule out the timing belt system first.

Well it wasn't the timing belt system because after removing the serpentine belt, I still have the chattering/rattling sound. It seems to be coming from the transmission area

(haven't experienced any tranny issues thought). Realized that the additional noise in this video is related to the serpentine belt system. No pulleys with play at all though. Can turn all of them freely. Ugh, something else to figure out.

Nero Morg · Feb 8, 2019

What clutch do you have? Alex_tdi mentioned could be a DMF, does the noise stop when you push the clutch in? Even with the SMF it could be the throwout bearing.

BakoTDI · Feb 8, 2019

I couldn't tell you. I had the transmission replaced years ago and I have no idea what went in there. Is there a way to tell?

I will need to check when I press in clutch and report.

z14ben · Feb 8, 2019

could be a couple loose bolts somewhere as well

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BobnOH · Feb 8, 2019

BakoTDI said:
Well it wasn't the timing belt system because after removing the serpentine belt, I still have the chattering/rattling sound. It seems to be coming from the transmission area (haven't experienced any tranny issues thought). Realized that the additional noise in this video is related to the serpentine belt system. No pulleys with play at all though. Can turn all of them freely. Ugh, something else to figure out.

If you removed the serp belt, noise still there, it could be timing belt components. Serp tensioner, alt pulley compressor pulley, idler pulley are O.K.
Transmission area seems like the culprit, lots off stuff in there, unfortunately pretty much have to pull the tranny to see.

BakoTDI · Feb 8, 2019

BobnOH said:
Transmission area seems like the culprit, lots off stuff in there, unfortunately pretty much have to pull the tranny to see.

Why? Why? Why?

I tested with pressing and depressing clutch but no difference. The video shows that when the chattering noise is present, the entire engine rattles too. Not sure what the heck is going on...

BobnOH · Feb 8, 2019

Only because that's where you hear it.
Run it with the top TB cover removed, if don't have a listening device, try a hose in your ear.

Nero Morg · Feb 8, 2019

If you pull the timing plug off the trans, you can see the flywheel, they look different between the G60 and the DMF. See if you can snap a pic of it.

BakoTDI · Feb 8, 2019

Nero Morg said:
If you pull the timing plug off the trans, you can see the flywheel, they look different between the G60 and the DMF. See if you can snap a pic of it.

Here it is. I’m not sure what I’m looking at here but if you do, please tell haha

Nero Morg · Feb 8, 2019

Pretty sure that's a SMF, if it were a DMF there'd be a gap between the ring gear and the friction surface side of the flywheel for the second mass. So unless some knucklehead didn't torque it right I think it's safe to eliminate the clutch as a potential problem.

When you get the noise to occur, does the speed of the noise increase/decrease with engine RPM?

BakoTDI · Feb 8, 2019

Nero Morg said:
Pretty sure that's a SMF, if it were a DMF there'd be a gap between the ring gear and the friction surface side of the flywheel for the second mass.
When you get the noise to occur, does the speed of the noise increase/decrease with engine RPM?

Ok, not sure what kind of problems I'd be having if it wasn't torqued properly so I would be stuck at that.

When I increase RPM from idle, I can't tell if it continues. However, if I tap on the accelerator, it will sometimes stop for moment and then resume. There are times, mostly after driving quite a bit, that it will stop completely and it won't do it again til I drive it the next day.

Nero Morg · Feb 8, 2019

If the pressure plate wasn't properly torqued to the flywheel, (loose) it could be the bolts rattling. I'm assukmg there's no drivability issues? If pressure plate bolts were coming out you'd have a harder time getting it into 1st at a stop.

BakoTDI · Feb 8, 2019

I have no driving issues and no problems putting I to first gear. I just ran another test going home from work and it does seem to improve a tad when I press clutch in but it still does it. It’s morw constant without pressing clutch.

Nero Morg · Feb 8, 2019

Could be your throw out bearing about to fly the coop then. Just keep an eye on it.

BakoTDI · Feb 11, 2019

Nero Morg said:
Could be your throw out bearing about to fly the coop then. Just keep an eye on it.

If that’s the case, what is entailed in repair work?? Am i looking at clutch work only or transmission components as well? I know absolutely nothing about transmissions (other than it has to be removed haha)

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Nero Morg · Feb 11, 2019

If it's the throw out bearing, that requires pulling the transmission off. Bearing is attached to the release fork on the transmission side. It's a job that can be done in a day if you have all said tools. But I wouldn't do it in the snow

BakoTDI · Feb 11, 2019

Thankfully I’m in central California so weather is not an issue. I guess it’s time to get the tranny checked either way. What possible mods or upgrades can I think about at this time?

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Nero Morg · Feb 11, 2019

Well that depends, you plan on doing any power enhancements? If you do I'd recommend changing the clutch to a south bend stage 2 daily. Similar clutch effort, don't have to worry about it slipping.

BakoTDI · Feb 11, 2019

Well not really. I want to keep it close to stock (budget). Living in California and being limited on emissions crap (DMV inspections) I can’t get into performance upgrades. For now I have deleted EGR but most likely, exit year I’ll have to install it again in order to pass my inspection for tags. My next upgrade will be injector tips from KermaTDI, which I’ve never replaced since I got the car almost 13 years ago. Used to get close to 50MPG but has decreased dramatically (low 30s at best). Anyway, that’s where I’m at. But this chattering crap is super annoying and I need to get this figured out before anything else

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Nero Morg · Feb 11, 2019

Just nozzles then you should be fine with just the tdi quiet clutch. IDParts and some of our other vendors sell them at reasonable prices.

BakoTDI · Feb 11, 2019

So the clutch replacement work covers the bearing issue?
Thanks for the info!

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Nero Morg · Feb 11, 2019

Yes it does. Clutch kit comes with clutch disc, pressure plate, alignment tool, throw out bearing. Some come with the flywheel as well if you order it that way.

BakoTDI · Feb 13, 2019

Nero Morg said:
Yes it does. Clutch kit comes with clutch disc, pressure plate, alignment tool, throw out bearing. Some come with the flywheel as well if you order it that way.

So in speaking to the guys at KerrmaTDI, they quickly identified it as the flywheel going bad. I found another video that shows the exact same thing, although they say this one is a DMF. should I assume this can happen on a SMF too? I guess, I'm a little relieved to have confirmation but not happy about the expense I'm about to incur. I guess that's part of keeping these soon-to-be-classic cars on the road

Nero Morg · Feb 13, 2019

Well and that's why I said I was pretty sure it's a SMF. looks like one to me, but could be a DMF on its way out. Doesn't sound like the typical sounds to me, but the fingers for the pressure plate could be clicking on the throw out bearing too.

How long have you had the car for? It may actually have the DMF in it still, and finally starting to fly the coop

Strange rattling-like noise

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