The Steering Wheel of the Car Goes Round and Round, Round and Round

After backing out of my driveway, I shifted into first and cut the wheel to the left to get my car parallel to the road that we would travel along. I feel like it took a great deal more motion than usual to get the car in the direction it needed to be going. 30 feet later at the intersection I took a left, and once again it felt like I was turing the steering wheel around and around far more than usual. However, slight corrections, lane changes, things like that feel almost fine, but there is definitely a bit more play in the wheel than usual. I did run my errands and driving about town things seem, for the most part, fine. Still, I fear that there is bad news coming from this group of well schooled individuals (grumble, this is so not the birthday present I wanted).

1. Could this have anything to do with the fact that with the windchill it is -17F in our fair capital city?

2. What is not right with the car? (Mind you, tie rod ends were done in December thanks to meganuke, a dremel tool, and a hacksaw, and the car then had an alignment right after the holiday.)

Nevermind the windchill, what was the still air temperature? Did you take a look at the steering fluid? Was it up to the mark?

Still air temp is 15F. I will wander out to the garage in a bit to check the fluid.

at 15 degrees, there should be no problem. The windchill is irrelevant. It is just an indication of how fast things cools down to the still air temperature. They won't get any colder than the still air temperature.

So, how much of an problem is it that my power steering fluid is way above the mark. Something like 1/2 inch above the mark or so.



(Now she tries to recall who dumped fluids into the car last. I think it was when the car was visiting Wicklunds)

It shouldn't be a problem, but but a 99 cent turkey baster and suck some out and see if the problem is still there.

Power steering is an assist. There is still a mechanical connection and a predictable ratio with assist or not. More steering wheel rotation is supposed to increase road wheel steering angle. The effort to turn the steering wheel will change with assist, but not the amount of turn of the steering wheel.
Park the car. Switch the engine off. Leave the steering unlocked. Stand outside the car and reach in to the steering wheel. Look at the front left tire. Turn the steering wheel until you see the road wheel just begin to change angle. If the steering wheel rim requires more than an inch or so of motion before the road wheel begins to turn to the side, there is something mechanically loose and the entire steering system needs to be checked.
Solicit the assistance of another to observe the passenger road wheel while repeating this check of the amount of play.
There have been reports of the bolts holding the steering rack to the sub frame loosening and producing sloppy steering responses. Such a loosening may or may not show under the light pressure used in the test described above.

If this is an issue of the bolts holding the steering rack to the sub frame, is it and easy fix? Or is this something that is going to require removing a varity of things to get to the point of contact??

Having to turn the steering wheel 90 degrees of center to get the road wheels to begin to change angle is, I am guessing, a very bad thing. Could this be anything other than loosening bolts?



I need specific directives at this point:

1. Should I be driving carpool this week? Would I be risking my own life or those of my co-worker and his infant son?

2. Should I (gasp!) take the car to a VW dealer and insist they find someway of covering this under my 10 year/100K warranty? Or should the car and I venture to see some of my favorite TDI people before I do anything? Or do I take it back to the local shop I initially took it to when I had the tires done in October, when I first began complaining of the car not feeling right?


Question I have - could someone have done an alignment on this car and managed not to discover that something was wonky with the steering?

Haiku I would not drive that car unless I understood exactly what is wrong. If this suddenly developed, it is likely to get suddenly worse.

There's nothing more dangerous than losing the steering.

diy_fool said:

If this suddenly developed, it is likely to get suddenly worse.

There's nothing more dangerous than losing the steering.

Click to expand...

I would not deem this sudden. I have been trying to get to the bottom of the not right feeling since October - hence the new tires, tie rod ends, and alignment. When I had the guys who did the tires and alignment drive the car with me as passanger and described what I was feeling and showed them the slight play in the wheel, they said not to worry -- this is what lead to the tie rod ends. The issue is now very apparent now that it is consistently 17F or so here, unlike the 40-60s of the weeks before.

Might possibly be steering rack going bad. Maybe do search under steering racks in A3 section to see if anything pops up. Go out to car and grab hold of sides of front tires-try to wiggle to see if any play-do both sides. Post this problem in A3 section or TDI 101- might get more views there.Good luck!! Were ball joints ok? Didn't think of checking them on 12/9.

IBW wiggled the tires about that day down in CT and determined that the ball joints were sound. I had watched in Oct. as the guys at the shop checked each one of them the day that I had the new front tires put on the car becasue right after I drove out of there I drove right back as something still did not feel quite right. Put new rear tires on the car at that point too -- realization that they were 4+ years old and made them recheck the ball joints.

Haiku TDI said:

Question I have - could someone have done an alignment on this car and managed not to discover that something was wonky with the steering?

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Yes, It is entirely possible. All the adjustments are made from outside the car. If the components connecting the left and right front wheels are in good condition it is possible to align a car without a steering wheel.
Based on what you've mentioned here:
No, do not drive the car until it has been checked and repaired. That means consider having it towed. Seriously.
Have whomever you select to evaluate the car concentrate on the steering column and the engagement of the column's pinion onto the rack. There are a few constant velocity joints where the column changes angle to engage the rack input. A failing CV will cause symptoms such as you describe.
A failed steering column CV will quite likely kill someone. The only thing worse than that being you would be it were someone else who didn't make that choice.

Lug_Nut said:

Y
Based on what you've mentioned here:
No, do not drive the car until it has been checked and repaired. That means consider having it towed. Seriously.

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And it eases my mind so much because I just called Tom and learned that he sent his car to get worked on this week because I am supposed to driving carpool. We should have his car by Tuesday, but it looks like my car has to go out and back once more. I hate having this icky feeling.

Dude, call in sick and get the car towed.

Eric

Haiku TDI said:

I hate having this icky feeling.

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The "icky feeling" might be somewhat worse when your steering fails and run over a bunch of kindergartners. Rent a car, take a taxi, take the bus or walk. Do not drive that car.

Meineke Car Care Center
227 Daniel Webster Hwy
Merrimack, NH
(603) 424-1701

Owner: Scott Wallace, trusted mechanic/TDI club member.
His right hand man Paul in this location is a straight shooter and all around good guy. This is the closest place to you that I would consider taking the car.

Keep us updated - let us know if you need anything else...

? Warranty

Hamsterdiesel said:

Meineke Car Care Center
227 Daniel Webster Hwy
Merrimack, NH
(603) 424-1701

Owner: Scott Wallace, trusted mechanic/TDI club member.
His right hand man Paul in this location is a straight shooter and all around good guy. This is the closest place to you that I would consider taking the car.

Keep us updated - let us know if you need anything else...

Click to expand...

Taking it to Scott is probably the best idea, but I imagine that all of this should still be under warranty - I have another year+ and 10K to go until it is invalid.

Thoughts?
Should I still go to Scott or take it to the Stealership? If I have to go to a dealership, which one would be best?

We are unfortunately unable to offer an opinion on a NH dealer as we have never used one for service...

Anyone have an A3 Bentley diagram of the steering components?

meganuke said:

Anyone have an A3 Bentley diagram of the steering components?

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Brialliant! Yes, looking at a Bentley would be most helpful.

I am taking the car to the Manchester, NH VW dealer on Wednesday morning. I have taken the day off from work so that I can be a pain in VW's ass in person.

While this means that I will be there with my car asking lots and lots of questions and doing my best to violate all of their rules so that I can be in the shop to see what they are doing to my car, I realize that I just don't know enough and fear that I am going to get screwed in this process.

Might anyone be around on Wednesday who would be willing to take a call from me to ensure that the right things are getting done to the car?

I am glad that this should all be under warranty and cost me nothing, but I am not happy about the fact that I am letting people I don't trust touch my car.

You are already armed with a good amount of knowledge. You know the tie rod ends were just replaced, and the ball joints have been repeatedly checked. The only other parts would be the power steering pump, which couldn't cause your symptoms, or the mechanical linkage from the steering wheel to the rack. As someone pointed out, it could be loose bolts or bushings holding the rack to the subframe, the CV joint on the steering pinion, or a missing tooth on the pinion or rack.

Go to the dealer and tell them what you've had done and what has been checked. Mention that you think it's something in the rack or the steering column. You can be vague and still give the impression you know what you're talking about. I've found they are less likely to BS you when they think there is a chance you can call their bluff. I suggest you walk in with a copy of the Bentley or ETKA diagram with the suspected components circled. Can anyone with the manual fax a few pages for a clubber in need?

I'm available most of the day for a call. I'm not as familiar with the A3, but I can tell when they're trying to sell synthetic blinker fluid!

Good luck.

But I was told that the blinker fluid comes in special day glow colors!

But your car is a 1998. It uses normal, mineral-based blinker fluid. It doesn't require synthetic.

I had an '86 Jetta with a similar problem. The steering was very loosey-goosey while centered, but then tightened up as I turned. The problem turned out to be that the center teeth on the rack had worn down, so the pinion was barely engaging. There was an adjuster screw to tighten the engagement up, but if I got it tight in the center, it was damned near impossible to turn any farther. Solution - new rack (this was manual steering, so YMMV)

Funny thing was, it came up on me so slowly I never really noticed how bad it was. My wife would complain about it, and I just poo-pooed it. Then my Dad drove it and informed me that if I didn't take it to a shop that day then HE would. So, of course, I took it - wife wasn't real happy about that.

Might VW screw me?

In reading over my warranty tonight, I fear that this trip to the Stealer might not go as well as I had hoped.

It reads: "The Limited Powertrain Warranty covers any repair to correct a defect in material or workmanship for the following parts and components: ..."

and then it goes on to read: "This warranty does not cover the replacement of any Powertrain componentes that wear as a result of normal use or deterioation"


So I guess at this point I need some direction as I need to find out what the normal life span of a steering rack, CV joint, etc. might be. Thoughts?

The power train is the transmission and anything lubed by the engine oil. I don't think it would cover the steering rack.

-Jason

The warranty says it covers things related to the engine, transmission, and drivetrain.

Now I am scared. Have I misunderstood (would not be a surprise), but doesn't the steering rack count as a part of the drivetrain? I am almost 100% sure that the CV joints do.

Does the warranty list specifics? Is this the original mfg. warranty or aftermarket one? Don't be surprised if the dealer will try to wiggle out of paying it. A thread I read last night in A3 section- somebody had problem w/ 4 bolts/nuts loosening up all the time-they put lock washers on.Try search in A3 section for steering rack. Do you have a friend w/ jackstands or ramps that could check out underneath car for loose nuts/bolts(or you can)?