CoolAirVw
Vendor
01m part 4
Here's 01m part 3
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=252885&highlight=01m
Boring one...
I've typed this message in a few times in PM's and E-mail so I thought I'd post it here for future reference. If there's any info that needs edited let me know.
01Ms have letter codes that relate to the individual characteristics and interchangeability of the transmissions. This letter code is located on a flat spot near the starter.
I get the question a lot, “Will XYZ code Trans fit in my tdi where ABC Trans goes”.
Here are the parts of a 01M Trans that are specific to Tdi.
Number of clutches in the individual clutch packs: Most different engine sizes have at least one difference in the number of clutches in a clutch pack. Some will have differences in more than one clutch pack. I'm sure VR6 would have same or more than a Tdi, so it would probably be more durable, but it also affects the "nature" of apply and release which is closely calibrated with valve body and computer to fit the torque curve of the engine.
Valve body calibration: Lots of differences here. I'm not "gutsy" enough to try swapping in one that doesn’t belong, so I can’t tell you if it would work. If you have the guts, then you try it, but understand this. Tdi makes its torque and Hp in different rpm range than other engines. In all likelihood it would work "different" or weird, meaning clunky under some circumstances or minor flare (increase in rpm) on a shift that the computer can’t compensate for. Worst case scenario…. It drives like doggy doo. The valve bodies are coded for interchange purposes. If you want to put a certain VB from one application into another application look at the letter code on the VB to see if its the same.
Torque converters are coded: This mostly relates to stall speed. Tdi’s are going to require significantly different stall speeds than other engines. Once again, worse case... lack of power on take off, or revs too high on takeoff. If stall speeds were close it might work ok. Input shaft can have a bushing in it or can be set up for a bearing inside the converter. Make sure you dont end up with a mismatch.
Stall speed defined: Basically how high the converter allows the rpm to go. So if you put your foot on the brake and held it firmly without allowing wheels to turn and you floored the engine, stall speed would be what the RPM topped out at. This probably wont be a good check on Tdi or a Drive by wire VW because the computer would see your foot on the brake and stop giving it "gas".
Gear Ratios 1st – 4th: TCM monitors engine rpm versus output speed on the G68 sensor. It calculates this as a ratio and compares it to the gear that the computer is currently commanding. If it “sees” a difference then it triggers 00657 code. It interprets this as a slip so it goes to failsafe. Some folks have swapped TCM’s with a “wrong” Trans and been able to make it not go to failsafe. I would never try it at my own risk. If you want to try it then go ahead. You'll still end up with a trans that the ratio's are not optimized to match your engine. Also there are early computers (38 pins) and late computers (68 pins) with different plugs that cant be interchanged. There could be other interchange issues between different engines also.
Computers are good at math. It will be able to see any difference in ratio in 1st through 4th.
Differential gear ratio: This is my theory here (unverified and undocumented). Computer doesn’t look at differential ratio to determine slip. So, you could probably (at your own risk) put in anything you wanted. Let’s say you’re putting on HUGE wheels and tires with a 4 inch lift kit. My theory is you can change gear ratio to compensate. But, putting in the wrong ratio, alone, without any other changes will probably make poor drivability like excess RPM (too low of ratio) on highway or lack of power (too high ratio). Along with those problems would be either an increase or decrease in fuel economy also. I don’t know about interaction with ABS module and if it would cause a problem there.
GASSER TRANSMISSIONS ALTHOUGH THEY BOLT INTO A TDI CAR HAVE RADICALLY DIFFERENT DIFFERENTIAL GEAR RATIO AND WILL CAUSE EXCESS RPMS WHEN YOU DRIVE FAST! THIS WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE TO NOTICE AFTER YOU INSTALL THIS INTO THE CAR AND FIND IT UNACCEPTABLE TO DRIVE! DONT MAKE THE MISTAKE THAT OTHERS HAVE MADE MANY TIMES.
Transfer gear ratio: All the same stuff applies to Transfer gear ratio as Differential gear ratio.
Reverse gear ratio: There are some different reverse gear ratios, but I'm sure this is a expression of the 1-4 ratios, because the same planets make reverse gear as other gears. But, if reverse were the only wrong gear ratio, I might be gutsy enough to try it because it takes a certain amount of time for a ratio code to trigger and certainly most folks probably don’t drive long enough distance in reverse to trigger the code. There may not even be logic in the computer to trigger a code in reverse. (you never know though)
Bell housing and mounts: I can’t say due to lack of experience whether they would be the same or not. I don’t attempt these swaps because the amount of research necessary to see if it will work is more than its worth. Then half the time you get deep into it and find some problem that can’t be overcome and you've wasted tons of time and money. I do know that a VR6 unit will not bolt to a 1.8T, 2.0 or tdi. Most 1.8t's, 2.0's and tdi's have the same bellhousing, so they could possibly bolt to each other.
Axles: There are different size axles. Only good info I can give here is Vr6 will not interchange with Tdi axles, although you might be able to change the stubs with your old trans to make it work.
Point of the whole matter??? Why not save yourself some worry and me some typing by getting the right unit?
Here's 01m part 5
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334614
Here's 01m part 3
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=252885&highlight=01m
Boring one...
I've typed this message in a few times in PM's and E-mail so I thought I'd post it here for future reference. If there's any info that needs edited let me know.
01Ms have letter codes that relate to the individual characteristics and interchangeability of the transmissions. This letter code is located on a flat spot near the starter.
I get the question a lot, “Will XYZ code Trans fit in my tdi where ABC Trans goes”.
Here are the parts of a 01M Trans that are specific to Tdi.
Number of clutches in the individual clutch packs: Most different engine sizes have at least one difference in the number of clutches in a clutch pack. Some will have differences in more than one clutch pack. I'm sure VR6 would have same or more than a Tdi, so it would probably be more durable, but it also affects the "nature" of apply and release which is closely calibrated with valve body and computer to fit the torque curve of the engine.
Valve body calibration: Lots of differences here. I'm not "gutsy" enough to try swapping in one that doesn’t belong, so I can’t tell you if it would work. If you have the guts, then you try it, but understand this. Tdi makes its torque and Hp in different rpm range than other engines. In all likelihood it would work "different" or weird, meaning clunky under some circumstances or minor flare (increase in rpm) on a shift that the computer can’t compensate for. Worst case scenario…. It drives like doggy doo. The valve bodies are coded for interchange purposes. If you want to put a certain VB from one application into another application look at the letter code on the VB to see if its the same.
Torque converters are coded: This mostly relates to stall speed. Tdi’s are going to require significantly different stall speeds than other engines. Once again, worse case... lack of power on take off, or revs too high on takeoff. If stall speeds were close it might work ok. Input shaft can have a bushing in it or can be set up for a bearing inside the converter. Make sure you dont end up with a mismatch.
Stall speed defined: Basically how high the converter allows the rpm to go. So if you put your foot on the brake and held it firmly without allowing wheels to turn and you floored the engine, stall speed would be what the RPM topped out at. This probably wont be a good check on Tdi or a Drive by wire VW because the computer would see your foot on the brake and stop giving it "gas".
Gear Ratios 1st – 4th: TCM monitors engine rpm versus output speed on the G68 sensor. It calculates this as a ratio and compares it to the gear that the computer is currently commanding. If it “sees” a difference then it triggers 00657 code. It interprets this as a slip so it goes to failsafe. Some folks have swapped TCM’s with a “wrong” Trans and been able to make it not go to failsafe. I would never try it at my own risk. If you want to try it then go ahead. You'll still end up with a trans that the ratio's are not optimized to match your engine. Also there are early computers (38 pins) and late computers (68 pins) with different plugs that cant be interchanged. There could be other interchange issues between different engines also.
Computers are good at math. It will be able to see any difference in ratio in 1st through 4th.
Differential gear ratio: This is my theory here (unverified and undocumented). Computer doesn’t look at differential ratio to determine slip. So, you could probably (at your own risk) put in anything you wanted. Let’s say you’re putting on HUGE wheels and tires with a 4 inch lift kit. My theory is you can change gear ratio to compensate. But, putting in the wrong ratio, alone, without any other changes will probably make poor drivability like excess RPM (too low of ratio) on highway or lack of power (too high ratio). Along with those problems would be either an increase or decrease in fuel economy also. I don’t know about interaction with ABS module and if it would cause a problem there.
GASSER TRANSMISSIONS ALTHOUGH THEY BOLT INTO A TDI CAR HAVE RADICALLY DIFFERENT DIFFERENTIAL GEAR RATIO AND WILL CAUSE EXCESS RPMS WHEN YOU DRIVE FAST! THIS WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE TO NOTICE AFTER YOU INSTALL THIS INTO THE CAR AND FIND IT UNACCEPTABLE TO DRIVE! DONT MAKE THE MISTAKE THAT OTHERS HAVE MADE MANY TIMES.
Transfer gear ratio: All the same stuff applies to Transfer gear ratio as Differential gear ratio.
Reverse gear ratio: There are some different reverse gear ratios, but I'm sure this is a expression of the 1-4 ratios, because the same planets make reverse gear as other gears. But, if reverse were the only wrong gear ratio, I might be gutsy enough to try it because it takes a certain amount of time for a ratio code to trigger and certainly most folks probably don’t drive long enough distance in reverse to trigger the code. There may not even be logic in the computer to trigger a code in reverse. (you never know though)
Bell housing and mounts: I can’t say due to lack of experience whether they would be the same or not. I don’t attempt these swaps because the amount of research necessary to see if it will work is more than its worth. Then half the time you get deep into it and find some problem that can’t be overcome and you've wasted tons of time and money. I do know that a VR6 unit will not bolt to a 1.8T, 2.0 or tdi. Most 1.8t's, 2.0's and tdi's have the same bellhousing, so they could possibly bolt to each other.
Axles: There are different size axles. Only good info I can give here is Vr6 will not interchange with Tdi axles, although you might be able to change the stubs with your old trans to make it work.
Point of the whole matter??? Why not save yourself some worry and me some typing by getting the right unit?
Here's 01m part 5
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334614
Last edited: