At my wits end

Ok so my car won't start and I have looked at the no start thread and here is what I have done so far ( I do get all interior lights including the glow plug light but no engine noise) I have checked all fuses, I have checked that power is getting to the switch thats on the clutch petal and it is I also tryed using a jumper wire no effect on the problem. I have checked the fuses in the panel over the battery they are all fine. I checked the relay thats under the dash( I think 185) it seems to be fine. I have changed the starter, anf the battery is fully charged, I have also used the key to lock and unlock the car...What else to check? Thanks in advance! Jes

1998 beetle

Check your PMs. Give me a call if you wish.

So the starter is not turning the engine at all?

Did you jump power directly to the starter solenoid? Or what jumper were you talking about?

Dan

I used a wire to bypass the cluth petal switch, thinking that it could possibly
be bad....Its like no power is getting to the starter at all..???

was it turning over BEFORE you changed the starter? Obviously you changed the starter for a reason, but was the old one still turning at all? Does anyone know if her 98 would have an immobilizer?

Your bug was produced during one of those years where you could have a Relay 109 problem. Do a search here, note the symptoms and see if yours match. The relay is cheap and available from any of the recognized suppliers here (tdiparts.com, worldimpex.com, autohausaz.com, 1stvwparts.com, etc.) Good luck and check back with your findings...

I think the relay 109 problem still lets the starter crank, but won't allow the engine to start- but I could be wrong!

The starter was working, I went out one day and nothing just the dash lights. I changed the starter as a last ditch effort hoping that was the problem...I Changed the relay 109 about a year ago, but I have a the glow plug light coming on and I thought It wouldnt come on if the 109 relay was bad?

Bug Girl said:

The starter was working, I went out one day and nothing just the dash lights. I changed the starter as a last ditch effort hoping that was the problem...I Changed the relay 109 about a year ago, but I have a the glow plug light coming on and I thought It wouldnt come on if the 109 relay was bad?

Click to expand...

You very well may be right. If you changed it out a year ago, you should be OK. The new style is GRAY vs the problematic BLACK one. I would check for juice at the starter and work backwards from there.

Yes, here relay 109 seems fine- she is right the glow plug indicator shows the 109 relay is good.

Checking the clutch switch was a good move.

Try putting power directly to the solenoid and see allows it to start.

Have you cleaned the large grounds? Transmission bell housing top bolt to the body under the battery tray? Both ends of that cable.

I have not checkied those grounds but I will go do that now, stay tuned

ok I checked and cleaned the ground to the bell housing, battery and starter, still nothing, thank goodness I still had the battery tray out!

Is this a manual or Auto transmission?

what is the build date, located on the driver's door.

Dan

manual, 04/98

Have you actually put a test light on the starter solenoid pigtail while the key was turned to the start position ? Or.... how about just running a positive wire to the starter solenoid directly. Ensure it's out of gear first.

You can get it started, almost certainly, by taking the small clip loose from the solenoid, and putting a 12 volt jumper wire to that terminal on the solenoid.

Ensure your parking brake is on, the transmission is in neutral, key on. And it is safest to have someone in the drivers, seat.

IF that works, then we are looking at ignition switch, clutch switch, wiring, and relay. This just verifies the starter and solenoid itself is good.

edit: I type too slow. ninety and I said the same thing.

ninedee gold tdi I have not checked power at that pigtail yet, that will be one of the first things I check in the morning when I have light again, does the key just have to be on or turned all the way like you are trying to start the car?

DanG144 I will do that in the morning I think the cluth switch is ok, I can hear and feel the relay under the dash working, do you know if the ingition switch is bad, will it still send power through the relay ect?

Power to the small line to the starter solenoid is only on when the key is turned to START.

Dan

Bug Girl said:

...does the key just have to be on or turned all the way like you are trying to start the car?

Click to expand...

Just ON...no need to be in the 'start' position. That is what you are doing, by putting 12V onto the solenoid.

Bug Girl said:

do you know if the ingition switch is bad, will it still send power through the relay ect?

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Yes...the ignition switch can still power some relays. It is possible that only the starter solenoid circuit is malfunctioning. If you are able to get the starter to engage using the jumper, I would look at the other end, with a volt meter. If you get anything less than 12V, I would bet the ignition switch needs replaced.

Tony

Thanks so much for the direction from all of you, it gives me a starting point for tomorrow, I will let ya know how it turns out

Tony,
I am pretty sure the starter solenoid line should get no power unless you are in START.

OK, Dan...I missed a step!

While the starter wire is disconnected, and you are metering the wire for 12V, have someone turn the key to start. At that point, if you should see anything other than 12V, I would replace the ignition switch.

Tony

Sounds like its an ignition switch failure. I'd take DanG144 up on his offer to help you out!

DanG144 said:

Tony,
I am pretty sure the starter solenoid line should get no power unless you are in START.

Click to expand...

Correct, a contact of the ignition switch when in the start position provides battery positive to the starter interlock relay coil for the clutch. If the clutch switch is closed, the starter interlock relay picks up, its contact closes and the same positive from the ignition switch contact is then applied to the starter solenoid via the starter interlock relay contact.

Even though positive was observed at the clutch switch, it is possible that the ignition switch contact is bad (high resistance burnt contact) and may not allow sufficient voltage at the starter even though the starter interlock relay energized. If the ignition switch is good, then the problem could be the starter interlock relay itself which should be pulled, case opened, inspected (possible burnt contact / bad coil) and tested, wiring/connection to the starter solenoid, or the starter.

Follow the advice in the previous posts and you should be able to isolate the problem.

The starter works with a jumper wire, so I guess at this point I'm looking at the ignition switch. I checkd all local suppliers and it will be Tuesday before they can get it, except for the dealer who is 30 dollars higher, figures! So I guess i'm in a holding pattern til then.

Bug Girl said:

The starter works with a jumper wire, so I guess at this point I'm looking at the ignition switch. I checkd all local suppliers and it will be Tuesday before they can get it, except for the dealer who is 30 dollars higher, figures! So I guess i'm in a holding pattern til then.

Click to expand...

Are you 100% sure the starter interlock relay under the dash is good?

BG, If you want to start it and drive it over here, we can swap relays.

I am 90% sure my 2005 PD has the same relay.

I do hear of more ignition switch failures than starting interlock relay failures, though.

Yes Im sure that its good I actually bought a new one, now I have two that are good. guess it never hurts to have spare parts

Are you sure you pulled/bought the correct relay? You can pull the starter interlock relay and jumper the pin connectors in the relay socket that correspond to the relay contact and then try to start the car. I believe the wiring diagram below is for your car.

If you measured battery voltage at the clutch switch then you have battery voltage from the ignition switch to the interlock relay for the clutch when the ignition switch is in the start postion. I don't have the relay list for your car but if the starter circuit is like other VWs, the starter interlock relay for the clutch is not relay 185 but probably relay 204. I believe 185 is the interlock relay for the alarms. So if 185 picked up then your ignition switch is probably okay. I believe the interlock relay for the clutch is to the right of relay 185 on the relay panel.

Good luck.

ok plus Golfer three I will take a second look thanks!