bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Brazil isn't a NAFTA country, so you've still got 2.5% import tax.
New Passat TDI confirmed for U.S.
- Thread starter dieselyeti
- Start date
PlaneCrazy
Top Post Dawg
Our PM is down there as we speak, negotiating a free-trade deal; still 2.5% ain't bad if the costs are 10% lower or better.
PlaneCrazy
Top Post Dawg
Our PM is down there as we speak, negotiating a free-trade deal; still 2.5% ain't bad if the costs are 10% lower or better.
drrck
Veteran Member
I test drove the TDI SEL last week. Similar reviews to others in this thread. I thought the power of the CR was adequate but different from my RC1+ PD.
The cabin is very quiet and I find the engine to sound not diesely at all. The 18s were bothersome for ride quality so I would consider them a downgrade. The interior quality very much bothered my buddy that rode along. I didn't see it as that large of an issue, as I wasn't expecting MKV material on a new US spec TDI.
Talk about leg room, holy cow the back seat is nice. The trunk now comes complete with luggage crushers (large arms rather than multi-linked hinges in MKIV). AdBlue port seems very accessible.
After the testdrive I have not changed my mind on my next purchase. After kid #2 arrives I think I'll be trading in the MKIV for a new Passat.
The cabin is very quiet and I find the engine to sound not diesely at all. The 18s were bothersome for ride quality so I would consider them a downgrade. The interior quality very much bothered my buddy that rode along. I didn't see it as that large of an issue, as I wasn't expecting MKV material on a new US spec TDI.
Talk about leg room, holy cow the back seat is nice. The trunk now comes complete with luggage crushers (large arms rather than multi-linked hinges in MKIV). AdBlue port seems very accessible.
After the testdrive I have not changed my mind on my next purchase. After kid #2 arrives I think I'll be trading in the MKIV for a new Passat.
donDavide
Veteran Member
Well there are plenty of Brazilian made Mk4 Golfs here. I would like to see here ofcourse
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
I'd rather see them made in the USA.
Derrel H Green
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Location
- Murrieta, California
- TDI
- An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Why
So they will cost more?
D
So they will cost more?
D
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
A more expensive US-made product is, overall, better than a less expensive foreign-made product, though, if that foreign economy doesn't put the money back in our economy.
Derrel H Green
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Location
- Murrieta, California
- TDI
- An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Yes But
While I am all for that . .
While that is most likely true, can it be made here in the US and
sold for the same price as when it is assembled abroad?
I undestand that the new VW plant is Non Union.
D
While I am all for that . .
While that is most likely true, can it be made here in the US and
sold for the same price as when it is assembled abroad?
I undestand that the new VW plant is Non Union.
D
donDavide
Veteran Member
Maybe, mabe not. How do you know that by the car being produced elsewhere cheaper/more efficently doesn't come back? The may produce the car cheaper/better and we do planes better and they may buy our planes so resources are allocated more effeciently and we both benefit. Simple economic theory. But I think we should be able to do it better but for all of the regulations and laws that drive up the costs
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
Like lemon laws, safety standards, and fuel economy standards.donDavide said:
Cheap is a myth. Everything has a cost. Who pays for that cost is the real question. However, it does cost more to produce something farther away.donDavide said:
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Well, the only reason we make things in China instead of here, for most stuff, is because we can pay someone else to use slaves, and we can say that we don't use slaves.
At an economic level, we'd be better off reinstituting slavery than doing that.
At a true moral level, we'd be no worse by reinstituting slavery. (Of course, I think that's what certain politicians are trying to do, but instead of just for one race, for ALL races.) But, we should be above that. And, at an economic level, I'm not convinced that we'd be any worse off if we only used indigenous goods made by workers paid fair wages, due to the amount of money staying in our economy, rather than getting burned up in China.
However, (and this brings it back towards cars) I think we should allow for countries that have good labor standards - not slavery - to not be taxed excessively on imports from them, because foreign automakers that have higher standards of labor can make superior products, and we need competition to keep American products from sucking - otherwise, you get the piles of garbage that the Russians passed off as cars.
At an economic level, we'd be better off reinstituting slavery than doing that.
At a true moral level, we'd be no worse by reinstituting slavery. (Of course, I think that's what certain politicians are trying to do, but instead of just for one race, for ALL races.) But, we should be above that. And, at an economic level, I'm not convinced that we'd be any worse off if we only used indigenous goods made by workers paid fair wages, due to the amount of money staying in our economy, rather than getting burned up in China.
However, (and this brings it back towards cars) I think we should allow for countries that have good labor standards - not slavery - to not be taxed excessively on imports from them, because foreign automakers that have higher standards of labor can make superior products, and we need competition to keep American products from sucking - otherwise, you get the piles of garbage that the Russians passed off as cars.
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
Agreed. Also, we used to have child labor here.
compensation/productivity/spending:
http://i51.tinypic.com/w9a3b7.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2e5o4g1.jpg
employment:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2n1xr8l.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/t9cffa.png
debt:
http://i52.tinypic.com/c2v15.png
http://i55.tinypic.com/28ji9fm.jpg
Ford realized that by increasing his workers' wages he could turn them into customers. When workers have more money from wages they can spend that money in the local economy.
compensation/productivity/spending:
http://i51.tinypic.com/w9a3b7.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2e5o4g1.jpg
employment:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2n1xr8l.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/t9cffa.png
debt:
http://i52.tinypic.com/c2v15.png
http://i55.tinypic.com/28ji9fm.jpg
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Derrel H Green
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Location
- Murrieta, California
- TDI
- An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Really
Please explain how you figure that having lemon laws costs the consumer more?
Those lemon laws saved me from my Azera which Hyundia could not correct!
You are not old enough to remember cars without safety standard.
I owned them. No air bags, no seat belts, etc. Would you have us go back to those vehicles?
Fuel economy standards?
Care to go back to those vehicles that did not have those requirements in place?
'it does cost more to produce something farther away.'
You should know as you bought a Golf which IMHO is priced too high compared to
Jettas which are assembled where labor is less expensive and delivery costs less.
D
Please explain how you figure that having lemon laws costs the consumer more?
Those lemon laws saved me from my Azera which Hyundia could not correct!
You are not old enough to remember cars without safety standard.
I owned them. No air bags, no seat belts, etc. Would you have us go back to those vehicles?
Fuel economy standards?
Care to go back to those vehicles that did not have those requirements in place?
'it does cost more to produce something farther away.'
You should know as you bought a Golf which IMHO is priced too high compared to
Jettas which are assembled where labor is less expensive and delivery costs less.
D
German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
Funny, in Europe a Jetta costs more than a Golf.You should know as you bought a Golf which IMHO is priced too high compared to
Jettas which are assembled where labor is less expensive and delivery costs less.
D
And if you think that's because it's made in Mexico, think again, because the JSW costs less than the sedan in Europe.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
The Jetta is a bigger car, and most of the cost-cutting on the Jetta wasn't maintained on the European Jetta - it got the GLI soft touch interior, the Golf/Mk5 Jetta/JSW/GLI rear suspension, etc., etc.
And, it's also a low volume car that most likely has higher certification costs that have to be spread across the lineup, for Europe.
In the US, our Jetta is drastically cheapened, to the point that it's back to a hood prop. And, it's VW's highest volume model by far - out of 183,191 cars sold year to date, 89,881 were Jetta sedans, so almost half. For comparison, 21,297 Golfs, and 17,584 JSWs have been sold.
And, it's also a low volume car that most likely has higher certification costs that have to be spread across the lineup, for Europe.
In the US, our Jetta is drastically cheapened, to the point that it's back to a hood prop. And, it's VW's highest volume model by far - out of 183,191 cars sold year to date, 89,881 were Jetta sedans, so almost half. For comparison, 21,297 Golfs, and 17,584 JSWs have been sold.
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German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
I know I know.... Compared to the Jetta, the Phaeton is a volume car in europe.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
That seems like a high Golf number. I suppose it's both gas and diesel. And does it include GTIs? I also would assume the percentage of Sportwagen TDIs sold is higher than Golfs sold.
740GLE
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2009
- Location
- NH
- TDI
- 2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
So you got a new car or cash payment for that car, where do you think it came from? what do you think happened to the car you gave up? I'm sure Hyundia or any other car manufacture looses money on lemon laws. So when a company has additional "over head" costs like this what do they do? cut employees dental plans? nahh they roll that added expense into the MSRP of the car, same thing goes to warranty work. So if you don't use a lemon law or warranty work then yes it does cost consumers more.
Please explain how you figure that having lemon laws costs the consumer more?
Those lemon laws saved me from my Azera which Hyundia could not correct!
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
The argument is that all regulation is bad because it drives up costs. It's a specious argument because caveat emptor is not sound business. Entropy is not profitable, it just sometimes appears to be.
In reality, regulation is essential because people are finite/busy. People don't have the resources necessary to do everything for themselves. They have to rely on others, and regulation is part of that. Regulators should create regulations to improve, rather than impede, market efficiency. The question concerns the quality/efficiency of the regulation.
Lemon laws don't necessarily "cost consumers more". That depends upon how efficient they are. Instead, they change where costs are located. As I mentioned before, cheapness is often a fiction. Everything has a cost. The question is ... who is paying. Of course, bureaucratic inefficiency carries a cost, too. The "big government" fallacy is based on the notion that less is always more. In reality, government needs to be a "big" as it needs to be in order to address the needs of its people in the most efficient manner. Efficiency and cooperation are critical because they help us fight entropy/chaos as much as possible, and therefore improve/grow as a society.
In reality, regulation is essential because people are finite/busy. People don't have the resources necessary to do everything for themselves. They have to rely on others, and regulation is part of that. Regulators should create regulations to improve, rather than impede, market efficiency. The question concerns the quality/efficiency of the regulation.
Lemon laws don't necessarily "cost consumers more". That depends upon how efficient they are. Instead, they change where costs are located. As I mentioned before, cheapness is often a fiction. Everything has a cost. The question is ... who is paying. Of course, bureaucratic inefficiency carries a cost, too. The "big government" fallacy is based on the notion that less is always more. In reality, government needs to be a "big" as it needs to be in order to address the needs of its people in the most efficient manner. Efficiency and cooperation are critical because they help us fight entropy/chaos as much as possible, and therefore improve/grow as a society.
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bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Those are the "Total Rabbit/Golf/GTI/R32", "Jetta Sedan A5/A6", and "SportWagen A5/A6" figures.
(They also have a "Total Jetta" figure that adds the sedan and SportWagen, but considering the sedan and SportWagen aren't actually related...)
Source for that: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/02/3811226/volkswagen-of-america-sales-increase.html
As for TDIs... 5206 Jettas (keep in mind that SportWagens are lumped in with Jettas, though) and 966 Golfs, according to: http://www.hybridcars.com/hybrid-clean-diesel-sales-dashboard/july-2011.html
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Those are the "Total Rabbit/Golf/GTI/R32", "Jetta Sedan A5/A6", and "SportWagen A5/A6" figures.
(They also have a "Total Jetta" figure that adds the sedan and SportWagen, but considering the sedan and SportWagen aren't actually related...)
Source for that: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/02/3811226/volkswagen-of-america-sales-increase.html
As for TDIs... 56,717 Jettas (keep in mind that SportWagens are lumped in with Jettas, though) and 5,968 Golfs, according to: http://www.hybridcars.com/hybrid-clean-diesel-sales-dashboard/july-2011.html
donDavide
Veteran Member
TINSTAFL
Geez, Econ 101.
BeetleGo
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Remind me what this has to do with the 2012 Passat?
donDavide
Veteran Member
Who said all, but the market will weed out the bad ones
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
I agree...let's get back on topic
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Powder Hound
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Oct 25, 1999
- Location
- Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
- TDI
- '00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
Yeah, except for: ESTIMATED BASE PRICE: $58,000
Yikes, they're proud of that car.
Yikes, they're proud of that car.
German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
There are AWD TDI Passat wagons... in markets where you can buy Audi A6 wagons...
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
And, prices don't translate 1:1, either. Not even close.
A base 3.0TFSI SE quattro A6 saloon is 38,200 GBP, or US$61,822.88. (Interestingly, you can't get the 2.0T, there.)
A base 3.0TFSI Premium quattro A6 sedan is US$49,900.
So, an A6 is about 24% more expensive in the UK than it would be in the US. (And, their sales taxes, which are listed in car MSRPs there, but not in car MSRPs here (because taxes vary at the county level, so there's thousands of different possible tax rates that apply) are about 20%.)
A base 3.0TFSI SE quattro A6 saloon is 38,200 GBP, or US$61,822.88. (Interestingly, you can't get the 2.0T, there.)
A base 3.0TFSI Premium quattro A6 sedan is US$49,900.
So, an A6 is about 24% more expensive in the UK than it would be in the US. (And, their sales taxes, which are listed in car MSRPs there, but not in car MSRPs here (because taxes vary at the county level, so there's thousands of different possible tax rates that apply) are about 20%.)