Suggestions on removing stuck lug nuts/wheels?

Got Smoke?

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I Just left my local gateway trying to get my tires rotated & balanced but they couldn't get any of my pass side lug nuts loose? Drivers side all came out but wheels were very hesitant to come (they actually didn't come off, manager came & got me and showed me).

Car came from New York and has A LOT of rust.

I'm thinking PB blaster in the lug holes and on the back of the rim several times a day, any other idea's?

Thanks!
 
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BolaB4V

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Rap them dead on with a hammer, maybe some heat with a soldering torch, PB blaster', Acetone and automatic transmissin fluid mix squirted on bolts, torch till hot then cold water a few times. GL
 

pbraunton

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how were they trying to get them off??, air impact?

i have always found that using an old fashioned lug nut wrench is the best way to go with stubborn lugs, .......

ballance yourself and then bounce up and down on it.......

or is it the actual tire that is stuck on??? like the lugs are out and you can't get the rims off?
 

Got Smoke?

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how were they trying to get them off??, air impact?

i have always found that using an old fashioned lug nut wrench is the best way to go with stubborn lugs, .......

ballance yourself and then bounce up and down on it.......

or is it the actual tire that is stuck on??? like the lugs are out and you can't get the rims off?
I went in for a balance & rotate and front end inspection. The guy in the shop started at one corner with an air impact and was going all the way around taking the lug bolts loose. Both front & rear drivers side bolts all came out no problem, but none of the passenger side front bolts budged. He managed to get one loose on the passenger side rear, about this time the managed noticed his trouble went out inspected and then came and got me.

They were concerned with the bolts breaking on a Friday and the day after a holiday and possibly needing parts if they did break. So I agreed with them to stop all work and just put the drivers side bolts back in.

We did attempt to pull the drivers wheel off to inspect the brake pads, but it was extremely hesitant to come off and did not actually come off.

Sorry I didn't explain further earlier this morning I had just left the shop & had about 30 minutes to get to a dentist apt and was posting from my phone.
 

Herm TDI

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A 3' long 1/2"dr. breaker bar and a 17 MM socket.

Then when you get the lug bolts removed and the wheel is still "stuck" on.
You'll need to get a good size sledge hammer. You'll need to hit the INSIDE of the tire. Do not go about hitting the rim or you will likely bend the edge of the wheel and it will cause an air leak and you'll be buying a new rim / wheel

After you do get the wheel / rim removed you will need to remove the built-up corrosion from the center hole as well as the hub area where the wheel is mounted.
You can apply wax or other high temp compound to prevent the return of corrosion.
There is a service notice on this issue with referanes to the type of corrosion preventative compound (do not use grease).
 
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Chessie

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Stuck lugs...

If you rotate the tires regularly, and if you don't over-torque the lugs bolts when you put them on, you won't have any problems in the future.

To get the lugs off this time, I would go with heat and an impact wrench. Nothing beats the many-many-many impacts breaking loose the rust and crud, IN LINE with the bolt.

With hand wrenches and cheater bars and long pipes, you apply side-ways torque and can risk breaking the bolt(s).

Good luck!

Chessie
 

Got Smoke?

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After you do get the wheel / rim removed you will need to remove the built-up corrosion from the center hole as well as the hub area where the wheel is mounted.
You can apply wax or other high temp compound to prevent the return of corrosion.
There is a service notice on this issue with referanes to the type of corrosion preventative compound (do not use grease).

OH TRUST ME! Once I get these buggers off they are ALL getting thoroughly cleaned at the matting surfaces! :D
 

Got Smoke?

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If you rotate the tires regularly, and if you don't over-torque the lugs bolts when you put them on, you won't have any problems in the future.
Haven't even owned this car a month yet, was trying to get the first in a schedule of R&B's. The tires on the front of the car have noticeable wear, and the rear tires look BRAND NEW so with the weather about to turn bad here in TN soon I was trying to get the tires with more tread on the front.

Once I get them off and cleaned, I don't anticipate a problem! Was just looking for suggestions to avoid breakge!;) The car is originally from New York with doesn't help!
 

ymz

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... with the weather about to turn bad here in TN soon I was trying to get the tires with more tread on the front.
Actually, for nasty weather, it's advised to have the deeper tread on the rear wheels in front-wheel-drive cars... go figure... (and "snow" tires really do make a difference... the rubber compound is engineered for better traction in cold and freezing weather...)

Yuri
 

Got Smoke?

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Actually, for nasty weather, it's advised to have the deeper tread on the rear wheels in front-wheel-drive cars... go figure... (and "snow" tires really do make a difference... the rubber compound is engineered for better traction in cold and freezing weather...)

Yuri
Well if there's A LOT of snow on the ground I'll be jumping in the 99 Cummins on 33's or my 79 Chevy on 35's. ;)

Just trying to get the car in the shape it needs to be in. While the PO did a decent job its just time for a few things... R&B..and did a oil & fuel filter change yesterday.
 

schultp

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I prefer an impact wrench. Long ago I was told by an experienced mechanic that since it is applying torque along the axis of the bolt, all facets of the bolt head are receiving the same amount of torque and there is less likely to be stripping of the bolt head (you are less likely to slip off the bolt head). With a wrench and/or cheater you are applying force from one side and if the wrench or socket slips you are more likely to strip the bolt head.

I apply antiseize to the bolts or lugs. I also apply antiseize to the mating surface on the hub so the wheel is less likely to freeze to the hub due to corrosion.

Now, even though I prefer an impact wrench, I have and frequently use my 1/2" socket set with a cheater bar since it is easier to carry out to the car as opposed to cleaning the garage to get the car close to the air compressor!!

Paul.
 

Joe_Meehan

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… The tires on the front of the car have noticeable wear, and the rear tires look BRAND NEW so with the weather about to turn bad here in TN soon I was trying to get the tires with more tread on the front...
I hope you know to keep the better tyres on the back of all cars (4WD, FWD and RWD) (AWD cars need to have the same wear on all tyres.)

You need the best tyres on the back to provide the best handling in an emergency. With the best tyres on the front during an emergency the back end will loose grip first and will slide around to the front so you are looking where you have been and now where you are going. That pretty much eliminates any chance of you being able to control the car.
 

steelmb

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Put the best tires on the front and even them up. even though you said they had wear you did not say they were bald. ;) The next things these jokers will tell you after you leave the best ones on the rear and wear the front ones out completely is that tires need to be changed as a set of 4 and that the tires on the back that still have some life in them should be thrown away. :D
 

eddif

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This works on steel wheels. I have never done it on aluminum wheels.

On bolt type wheels BolaB4V post #2 has the correct idea. The hit into the bolt end actually compresses the wheel metal and allows the bolt to come out after soaking.

On stud and nut type wheels you need a steel bar / shaft with a recess drilled larger than the stud threads. Carefully holding the bar centered on the stud hit the end of the bar.

The natural compression of the tightened fastner plus the hit actually bends the steel wheel. I do not know how much an aluminum wheel would like this process.

Realize over use of this process destroys bearings and breaks things.

eddif
 

Joe_Meehan

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Put the best tires on the front and even them up. even though you said they had wear you did not say they were bald. ;) The next things these jokers will tell you after you leave the best ones on the rear and wear the front ones out completely is that tires need to be changed as a set of 4 and that the tires on the back that still have some life in them should be thrown away. :D
The jokers who are telling you to put the best one on the back are those who have done the testing. For a start, check out:

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-basics/ Check out the other manufacturers and the car companies.

Please don't use your belief of what seems to be right to you and mislead others. I am sure you don't intend to mislead and possible put someone at risk, but do please do your homework into something like this that could cost a life.
 

Got Smoke?

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After posting this the other day I soaked the bolts in PB Blaster with the help of one of those push in straws a few times. I ended up having to use my breaker bar on 3 lug bolts....the rest came out with my Snap-On & IR 80 gal. compressor. Still took a few good natured swings with my dead blow hammer to get the front two tires off.:mad: Rotor's, drum's, and wheel's all got cleaned off with a wire brush attachment on my drill and mounting surfaces got a thin layer of anti seize to keep this from happening again.

Gateway shouldn't have a problem with doing my R&B and front end inspection this week! :D
 
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Matthew_S

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The jokers who are telling you to put the best one on the back are those who have done the testing. For a start, check out:

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-basics/ Check out the other manufacturers and the car companies.

Please don't use your belief of what seems to be right to you and mislead others. I am sure you don't intend to mislead and possible put someone at risk, but do please do your homework into something like this that could cost a life.
The moral of this story is don't install wildly mismatched (in tread depth or design) tires on a car.

On a front wheel drive car the best tires go on the front. The recommendation of every car company in the world that tires be rotated ensures that.
 

ymz

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On a front wheel drive car the best tires go on the front.
That only works on dry, non-slippery surfaces... It also helps get the car moving in snow, BUT: on ice or slippery snow, it's safer to have the grippier tires on the back if you wish to brake...
The recommendation of every car company in the world that tires be rotated ensures that.
No... it ensures that the set of tires wears evenly...

Yuri
 

Joe_Meehan

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On a front wheel drive car the best tires go on the front. The recommendation of every car company in the world that tires be rotated ensures that.
Do you have a reference supporting that? :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_rotation
Current thinking stresses the desirability of keeping the best tires on the rear wheels of the vehicle, whether it is front, or rear wheel drive. The reason for this is that if the rear wheels lose grip before the front ones, an oversteer condition will occur, which is harder to control than the corresponding understeer which will happen if a front wheel is lost. This is also the case if a tire blows out, so the intuitive belief that the front steering/driving tires need to be the best quality is not actually the case.


http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsibility/safety/tire_safety/manual.jsp

Inflation -- Tire Pressure
Vehicles sold in the U.S. and Canada are required to have a label that shows the correct inflation pressures for your tires when they're cold. (Your owner's manual states the specific location for the label on your vehicle.) "Cold" means your vehicle has been sitting for at least three hours or driven no more than 1 mile (1.6 km).
NOTICE: Don't let anyone tell you that underinflation or overinflation is all right. It's not. If your tires don't have enough air (underinflation), you can get the following:
▪ Too much flexing
▪ Too much heat
▪ Tire overloading
▪ Bad wear
▪ Bad handling
▪ Bad fuel economy.
If your tires have too much air (overinflation), you can get the following:
▪ Unusual wear
▪ Bad handling
▪ Rough ride
 

Matthew_S

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Do you have a reference supporting that? :confused:
Check the owners manual or service schedule of any FWD car. Every one I've ever seen has a tire rotation listed. When you rotate the tires on a FWD car you always end up putting the best ones on the front. There really isn't any way around this. If you don't rotate the tires you end up with wildly mismatched wear which is not desirable.

Now it is true that when rotating tires regularly the best tires won't always be on the front. When it comes time to rotate the tires the rear ones will be better than the front and that's fine. The point isn't really to keep the best tires on the front it is to keep the wear close to even on all four. In order to do that you need to periodically rotate the best tires to the front. As long as the tread wear stays close to even this is not a problem.

The recommendation is that you put new tires on the rear if the other pair are worn. However if the other pair are significantly worn they really should be replaced so that you don't have wildly mismatched tread wear. IMO this whole best tires go on the back thing is CYA by the tire companies. I think they know many people will only replace the pair of tires that are completely worn out and end up driving around with mismatched tires. This recommendation just helps to reduce the danger of this bad decision.
 

schultp

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Check the owners manual or service schedule of any FWD car. Every one I've ever seen has a tire rotation listed. When you rotate the tires on a FWD car you always end up putting the best ones on the front. There really isn't any way around this. If you don't rotate the tires you end up with wildly mismatched wear which is not desirable.

Now it is true that when rotating tires regularly the best tires won't always be on the front. When it comes time to rotate the tires the rear ones will be better than the front and that's fine. The point isn't really to keep the best tires on the front it is to keep the wear close to even on all four. In order to do that you need to periodically rotate the best tires to the front. As long as the tread wear stays close to even this is not a problem.

The recommendation is that you put new tires on the rear if the other pair are worn. However if the other pair are significantly worn they really should be replaced so that you don't have wildly mismatched tread wear. IMO this whole best tires go on the back thing is CYA by the tire companies. I think they know many people will only replace the pair of tires that are completely worn out and end up driving around with mismatched tires. This recommendation just helps to reduce the danger of this bad decision.
When I rotate my tires I move the LF to the LR, LR to LF, RF to RR, and RR to RF. If all 4 tires started out new and you regularly rotate, they should all wear evenly. This is the point of rotating them.

Many folks don't rotate their tires and they have more wear on the front tires. These wear out and need to be replaced while the back tires will still have at least 50% tread left. In this very common scenario only a pair of tires are purchased. These need to go to the back per the info from Michelin posted in the video. The tires with 50% wear go to the front. It is all in the video. If this is CYA by the tire companies as you suggest then having accurate and relevant information in the video would be in the tire companies best interest.

I was unaware of this information but the video really illustrates the problems/issue.
 

Joe_Meehan

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From a strict reading of the instructions would mean that some times the tyres on the front might have a little more tread. As it has turned out for me, with my rotation schedule ends up with very little difference.

If I ever had a car with two tyres with noticeably less tread on two than the other two, you can bet the best will be on the back.

I would suggest that if you have a noticeable difference in the amount of tread, then they have not been properly rotated. Mine get rotated twice a year.

Do you have any authoritative reference that specifically specifies using the tyres with the most tread remaining on the front?

Have you read the reference http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-basics/ Chose the selection that talks about "where to mount two new tyres" Then watch an listen to the short video.

I have never had any difficulty rotating my tyres and keeping the better tyres on the front, or having very little difference in the wear.

I have provided a specific professional reference on the subject. I have not found such a reference suggesting putting the best on the front. Can you provide a reference?
 
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Matthew_S

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From a strict reading of the instructions would mean that some times the tyres on the front might have a little more tread. As it has turned out for me, with my rotation schedule ends up with very little difference.

If I ever had a car with two tyres with noticeably less tread on two than the other two, you can bet the best will be on the back.

I would suggest that if you have a noticeable difference in the amount of tread, then they have not been properly rotated. Mine get rotated twice a year.

Do you have any authoritative reference that specifically specifies using the tyres with the most tread remaining on the front?

Have you read the reference http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-basics/ Chose the selection that talks about "where to mount two new tyres" Then watch an listen to the short video.

I have never had any difficulty rotating my tyres and keeping the better tyres on the front, or having very little difference in the wear.

I have provided a specific professional reference on the subject. I have not found such a reference suggesting putting the best on the front. Can you provide a reference?
It's not that there is some rule that the best tires go on the front it's that in order to ensure even wear that is the way it has to be on a FWD car. If you buy a new car or a new set of tires then rotate 5-10K miles later you will be putting the best tires on the front. I understand the theory about putting the best tires on the rear but that is only if there is a significant difference in tread wear. If you are properly maintaining your car that won't happen. If you should always put the best tires on the rear rotating tires on a FWD car could not be done.

So basically the recommendation to rotate tire is, by implication, a recommendation to put the best tires on the front. In a situation where there has been improper maintenance the tire companies have determined that an exception should be made to this rule. My recommendation would be to ignore this rule and replace all four tires.
 

schultp

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If you buy a new car or a new set of tires then rotate 5-10K miles later you will be putting the best tires on the front.
I disagree since I do tire rotations regularly on all my vehicles. If done twice a year the tires have no appreciable difference in wear from front to back. If they do have a difference in this short interval then there is an alignment, balance, inflation, or suspension issue.

So basically the recommendation to rotate tire is, by implication, a recommendation to put the best tires on the front.
Tire rotation is done to apply even wear to all tires over their lifetime. It is not an implication to move the best tires to the front. It is to keep the wear even and to extend the useable life of the tires.

I just don't agree with your logic on this one.
 
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