Frostheater, spring clamps or worm style clamps. Which one to use?

DwightC · Feb 3, 2008

I just got a Frostheater kit. It comes with worm style clamps, but Im wondering if I should get some OEM spring clamps instead?

Ive read that coolant lines should use the "constant tension type" or spring style type clamps, NOT worm drive.

What would you all recommend? If I use spring type, where can I get them? My NAPA store and AUTOZONE doesn't have any big enough (about 15/16" OD) - they just have the little ones for fuel lines. I'd have to order the bigger srping types from the VW dealer. Is it worth the hassle?

worm style:

spring style:

40X40 · Feb 3, 2008

Read and follow Terrys' directions, Including RETIGHTENING the included worm drive clamps.

Bill

ymz · Feb 3, 2008

I've gotten over my dislike of the spring-type clamps over the past little while... (I guess having a tool specifically made for them helps...)

I'd vote to try and source a couple of spring-type... If I can find the part number, I'll post it for you... (if you locate a p/n first, please post it !!!)

All the best,

Yuri.

PS: I believe the p/n is "N 906 555 01"... 23x12... (at least that's the p/n for the clamp on the hose that attaches to the oil cooler...)

DwightC · Feb 3, 2008

40X40 said:
Read and follow Terrys' directions, Including RETIGHTENING the included worm drive clamps. Bill

Hi Bill.
Thanks for the reminder. Actually, reading the instructions are part of the reason why I'm asking the question. I have both Frostheater-Terry's instructions AND the Phillips & Temro Industries instructions to read from.

I'll quote a few sentences, for you.

Temro:
"Ensure hose clamps are properly tightened. Over tightened hose clamps may damage hoses so that they leak hot coolant. Under tightened hose clamps may cause the hoses to come loose due to vibration during engine operation and spray hot coolant."

"Maximum recommended toque is 30 in-lbs. Do not overtighten."

"Use clamps per standard SAE J1508."
(stainless steel worm drive clamps supplied with the kit meets this spec)

Just because the instructions say to do something, doesn't necessarily mean I WILL do it. For example, the Temro instructions say to:

"...drain and flush system to remove contaminates..."
honk. Im not planning on doing that!

more....
"Re-tighten all hose clamps after 2 weeks as the hoses may set."

"Periodically check all hoses...over-torqued hose clamps...Seasonally check hose clamp torque and adjust accordingly."

Frostheater:
"Re-tighten ALL 4 clamps after 2 weeks and yearly thereafter."

Therefore, the instructions describe conditions for NON-constant tension clamps since they require reinspection, rechecking of the torque values and yearly attention.

It seems it would be logical to use OEM style clamps since they are constant tension type and should be less prone to leaking ? My concerns are now more specific.

1- Wouldn't spring type clamps in this application would be a bit more maintenance free?
2- Wouldn't spring type clamps would be an IMPROVEMENT over gear type clamps, in this application?

obtw, I do have a MAYHEWS spring clamp tool and love it!

Losha · Feb 3, 2008

DwightC said:
You can also get OEM style hose clamps from ACE hardwares store or like Tractor Supply store, basically any hardware store (atleast in my town).

edit: Personally I like spring type hose clamps then worm type clamp. They tend to hold better and don't damage hose as worm type that break and damage hoses after period of time.

Losha · Feb 3, 2008

ymz said:
I've gotten over my dislike of the spring-type clamps over the past little while... (I guess having a tool specifically made for them helps...)

I'd vote to try and source a couple of spring-type... If I can find the part number, I'll post it for you... (if you locate a p/n first, please post it !!!)

All the best,

Yuri.quote]

If you use correct tool they work great, better then worm type clamps.

ymz · Feb 3, 2008

As I tried to say... I do have cable-operated hose clamp pliers... One of the first tools I acquired during my TDI-ownership... (after a 20 year hiatus away from wrenching on my cars...)

Every time I use them I repeat the prayer: Mayhew have an easier time with the correct tool...

Yuri.

PS: these are a bit cheaper: http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/AP-9409.html

40X40 · Feb 3, 2008

DwightC said:
Hi Bill.
Thanks for the reminder.

It seems it would be logical to use OEM style clamps since they are constant tension type and should be less prone to leaking ? My concerns are now more specific.

1- Wouldn't spring type clamps in this application would be a bit more maintenance free?
2- Wouldn't spring type clamps would be an IMPROVEMENT over gear type clamps, in this application?

obtw, I do have a MAYHEWS spring clamp tool and love it!

First, You are welcome!
1. YEP, Looks like less maintenance to me..
2. Maybe the reason Terry includes them(worm drive clamps) in his kit is the need for special tools for the OEM type? Why not ask him what he thinks?
If you can find the right size OEM type clamps, I say go for it since you have the right tool.
The kit as shipped from Terry is complete and my first post was in keeping with the KISS principle.

Enjoy!

Bill

Losha · Feb 3, 2008

ymz said:
As I tried to say... I do have cable-operated hose clamp pliers... One of the first tools I acquired during my TDI-ownership... (after a 20 year hiatus away from wrenching on my cars...)

Every time I use them I repeat the prayer: Mayhew have an easier time with the correct tool...

Yuri.

PS: these are a bit cheaper: http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/AP-9409.html

Yeap... I used to get those clamps off with regular pliers

, untill we had GTG at my house last spring and DeafBug showed me this friendly tool, that is been my best tool in my tool box

. I seen people using them before in pictures but didn't know where to get one, so that day I went to sears and got one for my self.

DwightC · Feb 3, 2008

The first time I got my Mayhews and used them, I said to myself, "Where have you been all my life. You sweet thang, you!"

fwiw, the VW dealer in Lawrence, KS didn't keep those OEM style spring clamps in stock. And Im talking about the ones attaching the coolant hose to the intercooler. I assume they are nearly identical in OD...

ymz · Feb 3, 2008

DwightC said:
TIm talking about the ones attaching the coolant hose to the intercooler.

You mean the ones attaching the coolant hose to the oil cooler (under the oil filter)... (there's no coolant going to the intercooler... just pressurized air...)

Yuri.

DwightC · Feb 3, 2008

ymz said:
You mean the ones attaching the coolant hose to the oil cooler (under the oil filter)... (there's no coolant going to the intercooler... just pressurized air...)

Yuri.

doh....yeah, the hose to the oil cooler...

Gil · Feb 4, 2008

I must say that it took me some time to believe in the "not so new" spring clamps
.
I remember using my dremel tool to cut off and replacing that cheap POS with a better screw clamp.
Now I know better. Spring clamps are the way to go IMHO. Too bad they need a $40 special tool to properly make use of them.

Edit... Found this, interesting..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hose_clamp
.

Mike out west · Feb 8, 2008

Yesterday I struggled for about 20 minutes with various pliers on the spring clamps of my B4. Then I tried the 3/8" hose grip pliers from Harbor Freight, item 37909-3VGA, and they did the job quickly and easily. I'm sure the Astro Pneumatic 9409 tool would be more secure and better in tight spaces, though.

DwightC · Feb 8, 2008

Thanks to everyone following this thread.
Especially thanks to Terry at Frostheater.com.
Very nice unit and looks like a fine product.

Anyway, I picked up three OEM spring clamps today (that's all the VW dealer had on hand)

Here's a pix of the clips. One is installed on the hose, one on my Mayhew's clamping tool and one is "resting". I might add that these clamps are very stout! I mean it took some real muscle to squeeze the Mayhew's down to bring the tabs together. Frankly, I wouldn't be sure you could do it very easily without proper spring clamp pliers.

Hey, URI....here's the part number:
P/N N90686901, $2.70/ea. And I somewhat recall that it was shown as a 23x12 size...but don't hold me to that. I do remember it was item 43 on the VW parts exploded parts drawing...

ymz · Feb 8, 2008

DwightC said:
...here's the part number: P/N N90686901, $2.70/ea.

Yep... "Part number N90655501 was superceded by part number N90686901."
Same size... 23x12...

Glad you went this route.

All the best,

Yuri.

scurvy · Feb 11, 2008

ymz said:
Yep... "Part number N90655501 was superceded by part number N90686901."
Same size... 23x12...

Glad you went this route.

Glad I went this route as well. Just replaced the worm drive clamps included with my Zerostart with the OEM spring clamps. Well worth it. I rerouted my lower hose as well. My installation is much cleaner now.

I heartily recommend everyone replacing those crappy worm drive clamps with spring clamps, OEM P/N N90686901. If you've got some time, 1stvwparts has 'em for less than $2 each. I didn't have time, and got ripped off at what was previously a decent stealership to buy parts... $4 each.

Just took a quick look - perhaps try McMaster-Carr part number 7329K11 instead of VW OEM clamps. $2 - 4 each from VW or $4 for 10 from McMaster.

jollyGreenGiant · Feb 11, 2008

This is a good post, those spring clamps are far superior than worm drives.

vwlogue · Feb 11, 2008

They're $0.77 from Porsche parts stores like https://www.928gt.com or http://dcauto.gotdns.com + shipping about $7, but if you buy several, you'll be ahead. Seems like the same part number. I was searching for fuel hose spring clips (N90686701, listed on ETKA as 14x12), and it showed up on the dcauto as B14x12.

daedalus · Feb 11, 2008

What is the least expensive tool to go with them? I'm happy to pay good money for a quality tool I will use often but I suspect if I used this one more than once a year I'd be surprised.

scurvy · Feb 11, 2008

vwlogue said:
(N90686701, listed on ETKA as 14x12), and it showed up on the dcauto as B14x12.

I just looked it up. All the spring clamps listed for my Golf (GOB / 2006 / MG1 / SG21 / 121-45) are Nx12, where N is 14, 23, 27, 32 or 40. Apparently they're just different widths and 12mm clamp diameter. The ones I chose were 23x12 & PN N90 686 901 (which superceded N90 655 501).

daedalus said:
What is the least expensive tool to go with them?

I have the Craftsman band clamp pliers, model 28650-998, and I use them almost every time I work on the car. VERY handy with TDIs. The worm drive clamps that came with my Zerostart were could be used with either a flathead screwdriver (ugh) or a 1/4" socket (UGH). I actually had to scrounge around to find an SAE socket to use on them!

I really like the Harbor Freight hose grip pliers (37909-3VGA) as well when doing any work with fuel or coolant hoses, but not for use with spring clamps.

vwlogue · Feb 11, 2008

Yep, N...701 is for 14 mm od hose (fuel hose), and N...901 is for 23 mm od (coolant hose).

ymz · Feb 11, 2008

scurvy said:
I just looked it up. All the spring clamps listed for my Golf (GOB / 2006 / MG1 / SG21 / 121-45) are Nx12, where N is 14, 23, 27, 32 or 40. Apparently they're just different widths and 12mm clamp diameter. The ones I chose were 23x12 & PN N90 686 901 (which superceded N90 655 501).

Don't you mean that the 12 is the width of the clamp and the "N" is the diameter of the hose ??

Daedalus: the Astro Pneumatic number I posted above seems to be the cheapest single-cable remote clamp tool out there... the ones that are even cheaper have 2 cables and are a lot trickier to use...

Yuri.

scurvy · Feb 11, 2008

ymz said:
Don't you mean that the 12 is the width of the clamp and the "N" is the diameter of the hose

No. I mean that 12 is the resting diameter of the spring clamp and N is the width of the band. I'll be glad to measure after I get home to clear up any confusion.

scurvy · Feb 12, 2008

40X40 said:
Maybe the reason Terry includes them(worm drive clamps) in his kit is the need for special tools for the OEM type? Why not ask him what he thinks?

The Zerostart already comes with worm drive clamps. IMO that's probably why the Frostheater kits come with them.

Gil · Feb 12, 2008

In response to the question about the least expensive tool, I paid about $40 for the Sears tool.
I only used once when I gave it a try, taking off the clamp on my 02s EGR, just to take a look. The Sears tool worked so well it only took about 30 seconds and the hose was off. This hose is such a PITA with the wrong tools. Now it is a pleasure.
The EGR was rather clean, just wiped it out with a paper towel.

.

Frostheater, spring clamps or worm style clamps. Which one to use?

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