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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:49   #16
VeeDubTDI
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I think the issue is with manufacturer dyno testing when certifying the vehicles for EPA compliance, as opposed to the periodic (and not very thorough) annual tests done by some localities.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:50   #17
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Default EPA accuses VW, Audi of evading emission laws

It looks like we'll have a recall soon. Here's a snippet from the article linked below.
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The software was designed to conceal the carsí emissions of the pollutant nitrogen oxide, which contributes to the creation of ozone and smog. The pollutants are linked to a range of health problems, including asthma attacks and other respiratory diseases.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/bu...ware.html?_r=0
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:55   #18
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I just read this on CNBC. Isn't NOX supposed to be reduced by the urea-injection system, or am I missing something? I wonder if that mean more Ad-Blue fluid will be used after a "software" update? Kind of makes you wonder what VW was thinking when programing the pollution control software and how they think it was okay to do it. I'll be mad if my mileage is affected after the recall. If VW doesn't handle this properly, they will lose my future business.....

Just read the link in post #1 and saw a reference to particulate matter too. Great, so now the DPF will likely need MORE regen cycles than before too?
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:59   #19
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Depending upon where you live, you could probably just not have the update done and then your car would be none the wiser.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:02   #20
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Default Volkswagen Is Told to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

Looks like VW had software to detect emissions testing and turn on full emissions controls on then.
Jalopnik EPA Orders Volkswagen To Recall 482,000 Diesel Cars For Cheating On Emissions
NYTimes Volkswagen Is Told to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:03   #21
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Default VW investigated by EPA for alleged emission software cheats on TDI models

www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/18/epa-volkswagen-used-software-skirt-emissions-rules/72399372/

The core of the matter, EPA alleges VW used software to detect when the car was being placed in an emission test environment vs. normal operating conditions. only then did the car fully engage all emissions controls allowing the vehicle to pass. supposedly under normal load, the cars emitted 40x the legal CA limit.

not good, VW - not good.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:04   #22
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Also, the test cycles use specific maps that are known to the manufacturers, so they could use heuristics to know when it's on a test cycle map, and switch, even if the vehicle's on a 4-wheel dyno.

However, all of the affected vehicles are front wheel drive, so...
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:05   #23
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This brings up a lot of questions. What is the fix? An ECU reflash? That is going to screw a lot of people with a tune. Because it is an emissions violation, I am sure the locales that do the testing will be looking for the official VW flash (when it comes out), so the tuners will need to spoof that somehow.

Just how does the way VW circumvented the testing process impact the emissions equipment? If the equipment was designed to deal with a car meeting the EPA spec, yet on the road has to deal with a "dirtier" spec, I could see the potential for a class action lawsuit.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:06   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhinsc View Post
I just read this on CNBC. Isn't NOX supposed to be reduced by the urea-injection system, or am I missing something? I wonder if that mean more Ad-Blue fluid will be used after a "software" update? Kind of makes you wonder what VW was thinking when programing the pollution control software and how they think it was okay to do it. I'll be mad if my mileage is affected after the recall. If VW doesn't handle this properly, they will lose my future business.....

Just read the link in post #1 and saw a reference to particulate matter too. Great, so now the DPF will likely need MORE regen cycles than before too?
Fuel consumption on recalled vehicles will likely go up some. Increased regeneration activity would be marginal, as the increase in fuel consumption isn't great enough to make a substantial increase in soot production.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:09   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicaman View Post
Depending upon where you live, you could probably just not have the update done and then your car would be none the wiser.
If you have your car serviced at the dealer like I do, you can't avoid the 'update'. My car is fairly new and I have a service package, plus I don't trust anyone else to know what the proper oil to use, etc. Even in non-CARB states, dealer's will be instructed NOT to let cars leave without applying the update, even if you take in for just an oil change or other warranty work. This violation, if true, is very serious - can't wait to see the fine issued to VW by the EPA. Also wonder if VW will come up with any incentives to owners too. Curious that the 2015 Passat TDI is affected with the new TDI motor vs the 2014's, and why the 2012's and 2013's are not affected?
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:10   #26
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It also depends on where they add fuel consumption - if they add it to the NOx and H2S traps, soot won't go up at all. If they add it by increasing EGR activity, on the other hand...

(And, if they increase EGR activity, be prepared for intercooler icing to get worse on CBEA and CJAA...)
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:12   #27
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From the Detroit Free Press (might be verbatim as NY Times, etc - all likely from Associated Press)

http://www.freep.com/story/money/car...ules/72399372/


From the article:

VW may be liable for civil penalties of up to $37,500 per vehicle found to be violating the standard, or potentially more than $18 billion.


Well that's nice, so basically VW may need to cough up the value of my car (plus some) to the federal government for a slap on the hand, meanwhile what will owners get?

"Oh, sorry about that - our bad. Here's a free software update, a coupon for a free oil change and DEF refill (which we'll screw up), a free hat and our very sincere apologies that we'll NEVER do that again".

Schmucks.

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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:12   #28
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$18b fine for Nox into the air; multiple deaths from GM airbag incompetence and they get a $1b wrist slap? American favoritism much?

Interesting to see how this pans out. Is the emissions tsb from 2 months ago related?

I'll take a $5000 credit to a 17 SEL TDI GSW.... then I'll make the emission bits more likely to fall off on my 2010 cjaa jsw *off road use only of course
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:13   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcar222 View Post
$18b fine for Nox into the air; multiple deaths from GM airbag incompetence and they get a $1b wrist slap? American favoritism much?

Interesting to see how this pans out. Is the emissions tsb from 2 months ago related?
The potential fines are maximum penalties. The real fines will likely be substantially less.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:14   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
Data from wheel speed sensors (and other things), most likely. If all four wheels aren't behaving similarly, the vehicle knows that it is on a dyno and most likely being tested.
In California, they do not do a dyno test in diesels. Just a OBD2 diagnostic scan and snap test (accelerator exhaust smoke test).
It has to be a programming flag when the OBD2 scan is initiated.


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