BRM Turbo Issues
- Thread starter drakeMK5
- Start date
tactdi
Veteran Member
Just did the Zip Tie Mod. I went to Harbor Freight and purchased the vacuum pump and stainless steel zip ties. Messed around with the vacuum pump and
the Actuator, could not get the Actuator to move using the pump. I was able to have the pump generate vacuum when I put my finger of the pump, but connected to the Actuator the rod just did not move. I even pulled the vacuum hose off the N75 and plugged that into the pump, no movement.
I ended up looping the stainless zip tie around the actuator rod, and then using a screwdriver, pushed the rod down to the stop, tightened the zip tie, and after I released the rod, I tightened up the zip tie a little.
Went for a test drive, and did not notice any lag from a standing start or at low revs when accelerating. Before the fix, there would be lag for a second or two when accelerating in stop and go traffic.
jjtoutt
Veteran Member
Nice! You got it working, strange that the vacuum pump is not moving the actuator, Do you have access to VCDS?
N.CaTDI
Veteran Member
Yes you should do a VCDS boost test. I can run my actuator just by sucking on the line from the N75 so I would think you have a leak or a stuck VNT
tactdi
Veteran Member
I do have VCDS, and have run the boost test, in the past I have watched the rod move up and down. Yesterday, I did not bother to watch. The turbo builds boost, not only did I run a log in VCDS after I installed the zip tie, but I have a mechanical boost gauge in the car that shows the boost. The actuator is working.
Concerning the vacuum pump, does it take a lot of pumps to get the actuator to start moving? Like more than 10/15? I only pumped like up to 10 times before I tried other hoses off of the N75, even traced the line from the actuator to the N75 to ensure I was using that hose, incase the hose from the pump straight to the actuator had a bad connection.
Concerning the vacuum pump, does it take a lot of pumps to get the actuator to start moving? Like more than 10/15? I only pumped like up to 10 times before I tried other hoses off of the N75, even traced the line from the actuator to the N75 to ensure I was using that hose, incase the hose from the pump straight to the actuator had a bad connection.
N.CaTDI
Veteran Member
Just changed mine zip tie mod over to Stainless zip ties. Got 11" ties and they are to short IMO. Put 2 together and it worked OK but would recommend 15" if someone would like to know. Ran VCDS boost test changes where:
No ties 270+-
Plastic ties which I did seat of pants in the mountains to get the car driving 70+-
Currently set for with Stainless Zip Tie 160+- set with VCDS.
Car is driving great so we will see how it lasts.
Used Harbor Fright pump to set vacuum and had no trouble with VNT rod not moving. This is the one I used http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html About 5-10 pumps and VNT was all the way down and holding vacuum.
No ties 270+-
Plastic ties which I did seat of pants in the mountains to get the car driving 70+-
Currently set for with Stainless Zip Tie 160+- set with VCDS.
Car is driving great so we will see how it lasts.
Used Harbor Fright pump to set vacuum and had no trouble with VNT rod not moving. This is the one I used http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html About 5-10 pumps and VNT was all the way down and holding vacuum.
deeslman
Veteran Member
Good luck, my stainless ties are at 55,000 miles= 13 months.
I also used 2 ties seems ok
I also used 2 ties seems ok
jjtoutt
Veteran Member
tactdi
Veteran Member
Today I performed the boost test, and did observe the actuator rod move up and down, and when moved down, it pressed against the zip tie I installed.
During the boost test, the numbers seem to be much lower than I remember or expected to see (based on my reading),
at 9.9% mbar was 958, at 90.3% mbar was 969
These are the numbers I remember seeing when I ran the boost test earlier, before I installed the zip tie. I think I remember when I ran the test a few years ago, the difference was much more than that.
I used my vacuum pump on the actuator again today, and pumped about 30 times, without the actuator moving, yet it does move during the boost test.
Car and turbo has 273K, and during a long drive I took on Sunday (7+ hours),
I did get a P0299 and limp mode twice within about a hour. I would typically get
the P0299 error about once/twice every 2 to 3 months. If I continue to get the P0299 error, should the zip tie be tightened?
During the boost test, the numbers seem to be much lower than I remember or expected to see (based on my reading),
at 9.9% mbar was 958, at 90.3% mbar was 969
These are the numbers I remember seeing when I ran the boost test earlier, before I installed the zip tie. I think I remember when I ran the test a few years ago, the difference was much more than that.
I used my vacuum pump on the actuator again today, and pumped about 30 times, without the actuator moving, yet it does move during the boost test.
Car and turbo has 273K, and during a long drive I took on Sunday (7+ hours),
I did get a P0299 and limp mode twice within about a hour. I would typically get
the P0299 error about once/twice every 2 to 3 months. If I continue to get the P0299 error, should the zip tie be tightened?
N.CaTDI
Veteran Member
My mbar start was about the same 950-960 but at 90%+ it was much higher (see above post for changes). One thing I noticed a few months ago I ran a boost test to see what was going on and somehow the test ran at a RPM of 900 vs this test and other test I ran many times ago ran at 1,400 rpm on that test I got numbers very much like yours. I think the VCDS software has been updated since that time so you may check that you are using the current software.
I believe you want as large of change that allows the car to run well but it appears anything over 200-250 is going to cause problems. As such you should redo loosen your zip ties. Again a change of 150-170 is currently working well for me.
Limp mode P0299 I used to get that and traced it to a bad (cracked) vacuum actuator on the egr cooler. When the egr cooler was activated and the turbo wanted vacuum there was none so it would go into limp mode.
Good luck
I believe you want as large of change that allows the car to run well but it appears anything over 200-250 is going to cause problems. As such you should redo loosen your zip ties. Again a change of 150-170 is currently working well for me.
Limp mode P0299 I used to get that and traced it to a bad (cracked) vacuum actuator on the egr cooler. When the egr cooler was activated and the turbo wanted vacuum there was none so it would go into limp mode.
Good luck
tactdi
Veteran Member
Was/is there a repair for the cracked vacuum actuator on the EGR Cooler? Is the fix to replace the EGR Cooler or perform the $5 fix as discussed in the other thread?
N.CaTDI
Veteran Member
Options are $5 fix; Total replace $350; or delete with tune $350. just read up and decide which one works for you. If you vacuum actuator is cracked like mine $5 fix will not work. $5 fix is for leaking rod on cooler
tactdi
Veteran Member
After reading some other threads, when applying vacuum to the actuator,
does the ignition need to be on or the car running? I have been applying
vacuum to the actuator with the car off, maybe the problem?
does the ignition need to be on or the car running? I have been applying
vacuum to the actuator with the car off, maybe the problem?
N.CaTDI
Veteran Member
The VNT actuator? To test with pump car needs to be off. To run test with VCDS car most be running.
tactdi
Veteran Member
Right, the VNT actuator. I will work with it again, to see if I can get
any movement using the hand pump.
any movement using the hand pump.
N.CaTDI
Veteran Member
All I did to test it was just unplug it at the N75 valve and suck on the line with your mouth. Should move .5 to 1" or so up down. Use your tongue to cover and hold vacuum line to see if it leaks. Takes about 5 minutes.
tactdi
Veteran Member
I was able to use the hand pump to generate vacuum against the actuator. I had to use a screw driver to to push down on the actuator rod, then when I pumped, the actuator held the vacuum, and as I added vacuum, the rod moved down.
I was able to reset the stainless steel tie wrap on the actuator to ensure it was set at the extended length, minus a little. I then used VCDS to check, and did have boost, and without lag when starting from a stop. Tomorrow, when I drive to work, in town traffic, I can see if it makes a more pronounced difference.
Not sure what having to press down on the actuator to start it holding vacuum means, from my driving tests, the actuator is working, increasing and decreasing boost.
I was able to reset the stainless steel tie wrap on the actuator to ensure it was set at the extended length, minus a little. I then used VCDS to check, and did have boost, and without lag when starting from a stop. Tomorrow, when I drive to work, in town traffic, I can see if it makes a more pronounced difference.
Not sure what having to press down on the actuator to start it holding vacuum means, from my driving tests, the actuator is working, increasing and decreasing boost.
kcompton
Active member
Ok so after reading and reading and reading some more, I concluded the zip tie would be a good test to see if my 2006 BRM was having the same issue, it was hesitating between 1400 and 2100 rpm, then blowing black smoke and taking off like crazy.. So, zip tie on... machine runs as smooth as butter, makes me happy to own it again, going to take it into the shop and have my mechanic adjust the screw. love this car..
1998993C2S
Veteran Member
New Turbo Time .. .. .. .. VNT control ring wear
So true. The "Charge Pressure Control" test will validate any excessive variance. The 1,700 rpm or thereabout rpm boost surge symptom can be minimized by the Zip Tie Fix, however only a new turbo gets at the source of the problem; the VNT's internal control ring wear.
The good folks at Dieseland in Colorado fixed the up the TDI (again) with a new Borg Warner OE turbo assembly and while you're there an EGR cooler. The cold Colorado winters at 8,500 ft is the rational for not capping the EGR. Several 12oz bottles of injector cleaner applications followed by an oil/filter change, remedied the black smoke "puff" symptom which occurred at the throttle tip in position after the Turbo replacement. Its been several thousand hwy miles since the new turbo and the TDI, she runs like a champ, again. (Had close to 84,000 miles on the last ERG cooler)
So true. The "Charge Pressure Control" test will validate any excessive variance. The 1,700 rpm or thereabout rpm boost surge symptom can be minimized by the Zip Tie Fix, however only a new turbo gets at the source of the problem; the VNT's internal control ring wear.
The good folks at Dieseland in Colorado fixed the up the TDI (again) with a new Borg Warner OE turbo assembly and while you're there an EGR cooler. The cold Colorado winters at 8,500 ft is the rational for not capping the EGR. Several 12oz bottles of injector cleaner applications followed by an oil/filter change, remedied the black smoke "puff" symptom which occurred at the throttle tip in position after the Turbo replacement. Its been several thousand hwy miles since the new turbo and the TDI, she runs like a champ, again. (Had close to 84,000 miles on the last ERG cooler)
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tactdi
Veteran Member
Another example of double and triple checking the vacuum lines for splits and disconnects.
I have been getting the P0299 error for over a year, about every month or so, would go several months sometimes before the error would be logged, and the car would go into Limp mode. Did the tie wrap fix, and tested the actuator, results are in previous comments in this thread.
I remembered reading somewhere on TDIClub, about the vacuum reservoir being
being in the valve cover (always wondered what all those circles were), and about the vacuum line going into the reservoir could be split causing loss of vacuum.
There are certain hills within my weekly/monthly drive were the car with cruise enabled, would generate the P0299 error, and go into Limp mode. I could almost make it occur, if I did not use the throttle to generate more boost before driving up the hill.
Well I checked that vacuum hose going into the reservoir, replaced it for good measure, and also check all my vacuum lines, including the brake booster.
WELL, I found another vacuum line split and disconnected on the backside of the valve cover. Replaced that, and over the past several weeks, during my typical drive over those same hills, the P0299 error did not reoccur.
This fix seems to have also resolved the excess black smoke generated when I would WOT after a lengthy stint of stop and go commuter traffic. Still get a little black smoke, but not as much as before.
I have been getting the P0299 error for over a year, about every month or so, would go several months sometimes before the error would be logged, and the car would go into Limp mode. Did the tie wrap fix, and tested the actuator, results are in previous comments in this thread.
I remembered reading somewhere on TDIClub, about the vacuum reservoir being
being in the valve cover (always wondered what all those circles were), and about the vacuum line going into the reservoir could be split causing loss of vacuum.
There are certain hills within my weekly/monthly drive were the car with cruise enabled, would generate the P0299 error, and go into Limp mode. I could almost make it occur, if I did not use the throttle to generate more boost before driving up the hill.
Well I checked that vacuum hose going into the reservoir, replaced it for good measure, and also check all my vacuum lines, including the brake booster.
WELL, I found another vacuum line split and disconnected on the backside of the valve cover. Replaced that, and over the past several weeks, during my typical drive over those same hills, the P0299 error did not reoccur.
This fix seems to have also resolved the excess black smoke generated when I would WOT after a lengthy stint of stop and go commuter traffic. Still get a little black smoke, but not as much as before.
JETaah
Vendor , w/Business number
Easy! the diaphragm in the actuator has a hole in it.
When you manually push it down you are putting it in a position that covers the hole enough for the vacuum to pull it the rest of the way.
The engine's vacuum pump has the capability to overcome the hole and draw it down.
You can't compete with a Mityvac. You cant pump it fast enough by hand to overcome the hole. What it does do is identify that the actuator diaphragm is faulty.
dae06
Veteran Member
I did the "Zip tie mod" (I used a wire) 13 months and 24,000 miles ago and it worked great until now. I started getting the same loss of power and black smoke. I thought the wire may have stretched, but no, it was still good. I tested the charge pressure control test and I have zero mbar change from idle to 1400 RPM's. If I remove the wire, I can't keep the car running. Might be time for a new turbo.
JETaah
Vendor , w/Business number
If you have VCDS...I did the "Zip tie mod" (I used a wire) 13 months and 24,000 miles ago and it worked great until now. I started getting the same loss of power and black smoke. I thought the wire may have stretched, but no, it was still good. I tested the charge pressure control test and I have zero mbar change from idle to 1400 RPM's. If I remove the wire, I can't keep the car running. Might be time for a new turbo.
Does the actuator move when you do the "basic settings" test?
Does the turbo actuator hold vacuum with a Mity Vac pump hooked to it?
if not, then the actuator diaphragm is toast.
dae06
Veteran Member
Yes and yes.
delly44
Well-known member
my 06 jetta brm tdi (415k kms) has overboost errors. i first fixed these using a zip tie. for 10 months and 15k kms it worked fine. now i am getting overboost errors once again. i tightened up the zip tie 2 more clicks but it still kicks into limp mode. i decided to do the charge pressure control test. the off pressure was 938 mbar and the on pressure was 989 mbar a difference of only 51 mbar which is too small and suggests the actuator needs more travel not less.
this does not seem right to me that if the actuator could travel further i would not get overboost.
my mityvac moves the actuator and it holds vacuum. i used VCDS to do the "basic settings" test and the actuator cycles on and off.
i guess my next test is to tighten the zip tie more.
any help appreciated.
this does not seem right to me that if the actuator could travel further i would not get overboost.
my mityvac moves the actuator and it holds vacuum. i used VCDS to do the "basic settings" test and the actuator cycles on and off.
i guess my next test is to tighten the zip tie more.
any help appreciated.
JETaah
Vendor , w/Business number
Yeah, those turbos can get to the point where no vacuum will still produce an overboost condition. I believe it has to do with the vanes becoming misshapen or a manufacturing defect of the turbo vane lever being welded in the wrong position. Chipping the car accentuates the problem further.
When I view the actuator's position sensor on VCDS, group 43, block 3 in the engine module, it shows that the N75 valve is trying its best to get rid of vacuum, showing a lowest percent duty cycle in the 3rd block and it still is overboosting under load. I working on such a car currently. The fix is a Garrett PD 140 turbo with a tune that includes actuator position sensor delete (and a 1+ tune).
I have had a few of those come in over the years where I had to have even a mild tune restored to stock. It could not tolerate it. Once restored, the car still consistently boosted above the requested but not to the point where it tripped a limp mode.
When I view the actuator's position sensor on VCDS, group 43, block 3 in the engine module, it shows that the N75 valve is trying its best to get rid of vacuum, showing a lowest percent duty cycle in the 3rd block and it still is overboosting under load. I working on such a car currently. The fix is a Garrett PD 140 turbo with a tune that includes actuator position sensor delete (and a 1+ tune).
I have had a few of those come in over the years where I had to have even a mild tune restored to stock. It could not tolerate it. Once restored, the car still consistently boosted above the requested but not to the point where it tripped a limp mode.
greenbubba
New member
My 2006 Jetta tdi 5 spd, 220,000 miles has just been diagnosed with this BRM actuator issue and after reading several threads it pretty clearly is the issue. My mechanic tells me adjusting the actuator usually breaks the arm. Also the heater core hoses are bulging and need replacing ASAP. Based upon the mileage he is recommending a new turbo along with the hoses. He also offered the zip tie method. To make matters worse, I've also lost my 5th gear and there are metal shavings in the transmission so looking at a rebuilt transmission as well. I understand the next step may be a new camshaft. This is my first TDI (I have no records) and I planned on holding on to the car for a long time based upon diesel engines longevity. I'm just having a hard time accepting $4500 +/- all in one visit even though it all makes sense. Do I risk further damage by going the stainless steel or wire zip tie method? Will it hurt my MPG? Is all this a moot point considering the heater core hoses need replacing urgently?
ULSDFO
Well-known member
Welcome my friend, and open your wallet! These cars have issues, but once they are fixed, they are a joy to drive. You will also need to look at the rear main seal to see if it leaking and replacing it when the DMF, dual mass flywheel starts squeaking. If you are mechanical like most on this board, we just fix it ourselves. Good luck and keep asking questions. I’ve put $7000 into my Jetta since buying it with 89k miles for $10,000 6 years ago.